air canada pilot

[knucklebreaker]

hey fellas,

i cant seem to find any constructive advice on how to become a pilot for AC. theres no straight forward way to join the company like a cadet pilot programme, right? if so, does that mean they count on you getting your own ppls, cpls, and all of the required stuff, then apply as an employee?

thanksss!

[PBY]

I think, that the lowest hours they were accepting in last 2 years (in AC) was 1500hrs total and you had to have some hours on turboprop.
I am not sure, but I don't think that there are cadets programs in North America. It is only Europe and Asia, where a not experienced guy can sit a right seat of a 2 man aircraft. But somebody correct me on that.
Even 5 years ago in Canada, nobody would take a guy to the right seat of a jet unless he or she had 3,000 to 5,000 hrs total and lot of it turboprop.

[sec 3]

If you're a female or an immigrant you'll be a shoe in.:}

[troff]

"A!"

I don' wan to burst your bubble, eh, but French his an asset at Hair Canada.
Odderwise you go an work for da Wes'jet, were dey do day cabine hannouncement on da pre-recorded ting, 'an da pickup-driving 'ouswife are da biscuit shooters... But dat's anodder story.
Canadien haviation 'hisn't what it use to be.
Female... recent immigrant... visable minority... hey, you wanna work at "Equipe Rouge", eh, so right dere you 'ave a dishability.
Hall dat stuff you need.
Oh, 'an you got to be rude to da customer, act like you don' 'ave time for dem, and dat you are way hup on da ped-astal like da Michelangelo "David"... like your s*&t don' stink.

Tabernac! Now you got me started again on dis Hair Canada ting! Dat guy, 'hes what Mrs. Troff call "a flamer", and I don' mean like da kine' of guy in da cabine...

Some sort of i-tech hexpression- I dunno.

T.

[Obbie]

Oh God that was funny !!!!!!

Ok now back to the question.

No Cadet Programme anywhere in Canada.

You get your own lics. with your own money.

You will need a Canadian Lic. and the right to work in Canada.
They will not sponser you, you will have to achieve that yourself.

You will then have to fly somewhere else first to get the
experience needed to get their attention.

About 2000 hours at least, but that will rise with market conditions.

And lastly, they are looking at possible layoffs right now so no hiring
in the near future.

[knucklebreaker]

aight thanks for the replies.

french isnt a prob. but getting all of those requirements just for AC is.

i'd much rather stick with CX.

[troff]

"A!"

Don' loose face abou' try-ing to get hon wit' some hoperation wit no time.
A long long time ago, in a place far, far away... a majicial place a da Governmen' hof Canada hoficially call' "Nunavut", NU :}, or en Francais, nekked. Hi tink it mean place we're da sun don' shine... henyway-'der use to be an operat-ion dey call Bradley Hair Service.
Dey was a good bunch, eh? Hexcept for dat "F@t B@&t@rd"...
Someday... 'ockey sweater over da 'ed....
Dey take a guy oo ad da minimum time an den put 'im on da Twin Hotter.
But firs' dey work im like a dog at someting else- some back breaking groun job hof some sort... freezing 'is arse off... or back seat in da 727.
Hit was like a reverse bond, hand since da guy, 'e work 'is fingers to da bone, 'e stay haroun' to collekt is re-ward... a few tousand hour in da big turbine powr'd machine... Den 'e move on... hor marry some Eskimo - uhh, dat's not right- ow do you say: INUIT Princess an' stay.
I dunno hif dey still do dat stuff henymore.
Henyway, down in Tor-on-to der was dis company call Millard I tink dat would force da guy to sleep in da 'anger and clean planes for nuttin'. Wapiti... now dat was a class act- of stupidity. Hif a guy stay more dan 6 hour dere 'e was crazy.

T

[Chuck Ellsworth]

He moved to Tomahawk Airways.

[ecosystem]

i'd much rather stick with CX.

Good luck with that. FYI the rulers of Kitty City have been known to eat their first born.

[ScudRunner08]

Here's a Thread on the Premier ;) Canadian Aviation Website to give you the range of experience you will need to get on with big Red

AVCANADA • View topic - Newer Hires, How much time did you have? (http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=53221)

[Lhpilot]

Hi everyone,

I have some questions about the instructor rating in canada. I currently hold a canadian CPL/SMELS/IR. I conducted all my training in the USA and converted my license from FAA to TC. I'm a US citizen and wanted to get my canadian Instructor rating and if possible work in canada to build some time. Any idea if that is possible? Im having some hard time finding a flight school that offers an instructor rating do you know of any good flight school that offer the program and possibly offer you the chance to become a flight instructor with them? Preferably in Ottawa, Toronto, or Calgary. Looked at Seneca in Toronto but you are required to be a student there in order to fly with them and I already have a B.Sc in Aeronautics. let me know what you think.

[twotigers]

And hot damn.. those baby's are good.

Mate, CX is a billion times better than AC on its worst day. All the decent Canadian pilots went overseas for the real money (CX pays 5 times was AC does to start, and even at senior levels 2-3 times).

That is unless CX turned you away. We don't take many.

[Left Coaster]

"That'll get em goin...!" (Herb Brookes) (Most Canadians will know what this means!)

[J.O.]

I think most will recognize a troll when they see one and treat it accordingly. As for Herb, he was no troll, just a great coach and a genuinely decent human being who was lost too soon.

[767-300ER]

iSo Cathay pays new hires $200,000 CDN to start, and up to $750,000 for senior pilots????

Wow, I guess I should apply....


So remind us again what the monthly "housing allowance" is for new-hire Second Officers living in Hong Kong is? Oh, and while you're at it, what is the rent for a 600sq ft apartment in Discovery Bay???

I guess you better brush up on your trolling skills....

[Yobbo]

The novelty of living in Hong Kong wears off quite quickly, it is just a dirty, noisy Asian city where one has to pay taxes. Have a peek at what the boys are saying about Cathy in the FRAGRANT HARBOUR blog. Management is infected with the "worlds safest pilots" making it a unpleasant place to work.

[twotigers]

With housing, 13th month, bonuses, ect, up till recently a First Year FO (to compare to AC FOs) would earn about 140,000 CDN (taxed less than 15%) to Air Canada's 38,000?

A new Captain would earn mid 300,00's (again taxed less than 15%). AC 90ish?

Senior Captain would earn over 400,000

Additionally, a retirement fund called our "provident fund" gives us an ADDITIONAL 15% of our salary + interest. Retirees tend to leave with about a $1,000,000 in that.. some up 2-3X more if they invested well.

Not trolling in the least.

Love coming home and buying my WJ and AC mates dinner and drinks at one of my two Canadian vacation properties.

Lets not forget the biggest difference is tax.

Staying in Canadian mid 40's%. Even if you make 160,000 at AC (you've been there a long time to make that) you're taking home around a 100,000 depending on deductions. In HK, I take home in the high 200,000's-low 300,000's.

Show me that in Canada. Troll out.

[twotigers]

Oh.. its very unpleasant.

Management are asses, HKG is a polluted **** hole.. but that big bucket of gold every month and retirement in late 40's keep us on a steady course.

Biggest cheque I've had yet was over 500,000 HKD in a single month (divide by 7.5 for CD$)..

So yeah.. things do suck about the situation, but they also exceed AC in almost every way.

edit: it was actually 590,000.. just looked it up

[altiplano]

... and apparently on top of it all these super things Cathay guys sure have class too... jeeshh...

Comparing widebody to narrowbody captain/fo wages is apples to oranges. Different operations there. WB to WB on a cost of living/quality of living comparison I think AC does pretty fair.

Do Cathay pay more than AC at top levels - sure and it's a great gig for many. But lot's of sacrifices and uncertainties...

Live in HK - kinda fun for a few years but expensive to live in a shoebox, not such a great place to raise a family and chances are unless you're single your wife will have to ditch their career. If you're into whores and booze though great place to be.

Little protection if something doesn't go your way... ie. failed ride/upgrade, closed base, conflict with captain/trainer/manager... WAWCON has been on a constant decline aswell...

... plus you have to put up with a culture that has a stick up it's ass.

Lot's of people get what they want and bail, lot's get trapped and can't find a way out... I heard recently many newish hires are bailing back to home countries.

I guess it's choice...

a life full of sacrifice for a few bucks more or...

a life living where you want to be, with the people you want to be with, doing the things you want to do, all while choosing the type of flying you want to do, the type of aircraft you want to fly, getting a steady increase in pay year over year to the point where you are in the top percentile of earners and can live a very comfortable life working 10 days a month, then when it's all done collect 2/3 of your top earning years for the rest of your life. Plus AC get's better passes.

To each their own though...

[twotigers]

2 points my classy friend, our sister company KA has narrow body and pays..

wait for it.. THE SAME. Thats rights right, a A320 pays the same as a A330 or a A B747. Its idiocy like AC having one of my friends on 5 types in 6 six years that ensure that they in constantly in bankruptcy.

and better passes? You're on crack. I can fly in First or Business almost anywhere in the world. AC sure.. you CAN be in business, but given the unlimited upgrades AC offers its a crap shoot.

CX doesn't offer complimentary upgrades. If I look at a flight that is F3 J6 Y whatever.. I know those 9 seats will be there at check in.
AC's passes are absolute ****e comparatively.

Stay Classy.

[altiplano]

Fair enough, you get more money... you have to live in a hole and deal with a monstrous cost of living, cost of schooling, and lack of security, how else would they get anyone to come. AC pays a wage that will get you into a very comfortable lifestyle, of course more would be great, but I wouldn't trade it to live as an Expat with minimal rights and an upside down life. My priority is to live where I want to be and not have to put up with too much BS... as I say to each there own.

As for passes - just going on what my buddy told me. Sounds like the frequent trips home for him an his family really add up. I have no first hand experience with Cathay passes, but I can tell you I can go anywhere on the AC network with my family on a priority J class upgrade 3 times a year with no service charge... nominal charge for regular passes after that... and I'll keep them when I retire. It's contingent space available but I guess you learn to deal with it. Wouldn't call them ****e... but maybe could be better if they stopped giving new hire secretaries higher priority than 30 year pilots...

Sounds like Cathay works for you. Enjoy your course for the next 20 years in the **** hole.**your words not mine.**

Classy indeed!

[767-300ER]

So remind us again what the monthly "housing allowance" is for new-hire Second Officers living in Hong Kong is? Oh, and while you're at it, what is the rent for a 600sq ft apartment in Discovery Bay???

[twotigers]

Alti and Piano..

There are SEVERAL contracts here. Mine is in the Low 70's a month (About 10,000 CAD) other only get 24 (3 K Cad) others over a 100K. It depends on your contract.

Re passes.. I grew up as a AC dependent and travel on C1's ocassionally with one of my retired parents. Although listed for J, more often than not, Elites or Super Elites take the seats last minute. The cost of the passes C1 vs ours is roughly the same, though CX's are perhaps 10% more on longer routes.

Today it is a ****hole, you're right.. it often is. But I'll be retired soon, living in Kelowna, drinking wine...