Too Young?

[UpEarly]

I am seemingly very young to be applying for Captain positions on a 747 but have over 8,000 hours TT and over 3,200 as PIC, with all of those on a classic (cargo). I was just lucky to get high-hour jobs starting at 16 and then on at a cargo carrier at 19 as an SO.

My question to any vets out there is will someone hire a 25 year old as a captain? I appear to have the hours for places like KAL, SQ, Nippon, etc. and want to work in Asia, but don't know if I shoot myself in the foot not applying for FO slots.

Advice welcome!

[The Dominican]

My sim partner during initial training was in a similar position than you, he had the times to apply as a captain but was offered an F/O position. In Japan (in Asia for the most part) they equate age with experience and although you have the times don't be surprised if the offer comes as an F/O, but your age has another advantage because if you get the job and upgrade within your first contract then I fail to see how that is a bad thing.

Good luck and I congratulate you on a blessed career because achieving those times at 25 is pretty impressive

[who.ru]

25 years old with over 3200hours PIC on B747.

So B747 Captain at 21 years of age!

(assuming max 1000hours per year, 3200 PIC on B747 = over 3 years, then 25 - 3+ years = 21 years of age)

Congratulations on being what I would believe to be the world's youngest 747 Captain. Very impressive.

A lot of potential employers would find this difficult to believe, hence the probable reluctance.

Best of luck on the job search.

PS. Over 8000hours at 25 years old, you have been very busy assuming 1000 hours per year and a B747 rating as well as all your flight training etc since 16. Well done.

[mannymux]

Don't you need to be 23 to hold an ATP?

[gottofly]

You can have an ATPL by 21.e.g.INDIA.
Indian airlines like Jet have had 21 yr old commanders on their B737

[betpump5]

Its obvious that this guy wrote this in his sleep because it is evident he is dreaming.

PIC on a 747 at 21/22? Absolute BS.

I would usually write a cynical comment like your Dad must be the Chief Pilot but even that would not get you PIC at 21.

Hell, even if Daddy were the CEO/Chairman I'd still doubt it.

Over 8000 hours? So looking at 1000hrs absolute max that means you were flying 1000 hours a year since you were 17.

I was a 742-F pilot from 21 then a 744 pilot at 25. In my 9 years of flying, I have never met any 74X pilot who had flown the max hours per year.

Time to wake up I think..........

Yes...far too young. I guess the children are on school holiday where you are?

[Arcane]

high-hour jobs starting at 16

Don't you need to be 18 y.o. to get a CPL ? :ooh:

[smiling monkey]

8000 hours TT at 25 years of age means you would have clocked on average 1000 hours a year, every year, since 16 years of age. That's close to max hours (or over max hours in countries where you can only do a max of 900 hours in 365 days) for 8 years!! That's incredibly hard to believe.

[ReverseFlight]

Last year I met a Captain from China Southern and he was only 23 but already captain on both A320 and B737NG with a few thousand hours on each type. He actually loathed his job and was looking to get out of the bureaucracy there.

So these folks do exist. It might be more helpful if UpEarly gave more detail about the countries/carriers he/she worked for as clearly his/her credibility is under attack in these forums (I note it is his/her first post).

[betpump5]

I don't think anyone is questioning a Captain in their early twenties. It can and does happen.

If I had stayed on the 737 (my first airline job at 19) I like to think that I would have got my command in my early twenties.

It is obvious this guy is a joke. Firstly, it is impossible to have 8000 hours at his age because you would have had to break the limit each year since 16, had a CPL at 17 which is against the rules - oh and have had to find time to do the 747 Type Rating whilst flying to the max.

I don't think so.

[ishi59]

HeY Upearly.

Put your money where your mouth is and apply for the Capt positions. If you are legit you may get a look in, I think the chances with the Japanese are slim. They may ask you to adjust your application to an FO slot. Still a good situation at your age.

If you're not legit, well, let's see :mad: :mad: :mad:

[slowto280]

dream on my friend. :=

[Beechslave]

I'm 23 but I guess I still look 18 flying the B1900D PIC so I get some comments. Can't imagine flying a 747 at 25. But then again, boxes don't care about your age so it wouldn't hurt to try cargo.

[yano]

over 8,000 hours TT and over 3,200 as PIC, with all of those on a classic (cargo).

I think that guy meant 3,200 PIC on his 'supposedly' cargo career.

[UpEarly]

First of all, Dominican & who.ru (and the two who sent PM's)....thank you for your replies. I'll come back to that.

To the rest, this ought to be fun....

1. I am male, so at least we've cleared up the he/she question.

2. I started flying at 15 and got the certificate about a day after I turned 16 to solo, had a neighbor who owned his own Cessna doing little contract mini-cargo runs and went with him every chance I got. We did 50+ hours a month together for over two years and I had 1,343 hours by the time I graduated high school.

3. Went to work for a small cargo outfit for 19 months flying a B58 and flew over 1,700 hours. Before anyone writes back with (imagine 4 year old voice here) "you can only fly 1,000 hours a year!!!" let us remember a couple of simple facts...
a) THAT YOU ARE PAID FOR...I still flew with my neighbor any chance I got to keep building hours. If he wanted a day off and I was free, I flew it for him. Anything to get hours.
b) In the US with Part 135 carriers, you can fly up to 1,200 hours a year.
I did 1,761 on the B58 and another 162 on the Cessna during this time.

For those with math challenges, which we'll cover more later as well, that's 19 years 10 months old and 3,266 hours according to my logbooks. Keeping up, are we?

Hired as SO on a 747-200 through a connection at work. Didn't need CPL yet because I was only qualified to fly as a relief SO. Nothing else. They only hired me because I would come work for about $20 an hour and it was another body on board if people needed to sleep for an hour. "Everyone else dies in flight, I am still not supposed to touch the controls." Seriously, that's what my trainer told me. :)

During that 15 months, I still accumulated another 15-20 hours a month subbing on the little Cessna and joyriding on weekends. All told, about 215 hours there. We're at 3,627 if you're still worried about it.

Okay, now I get to 21 and get my CPL. I have enough seniority to get FO seat since people leave these 3 plane cargo ops like merry-go-rounds. 22 months as an FO (plus training) and I was qualified to be PIC by the time I turned 23 (actually about two months shy of that). Again, we keep having trouble with math here in pprune heaven so let's also specify that I am 25 years, 10 months and 16 days old as of today. Clear? After training, I was PIC at 22 years, 10 months and 8 days. Ooooh, this math is going to be hard. Um, uh, wait...I've got it! That is 3 years and 7 days as of my post yesterday!!! I flew 982, 963 and 978 hours the first three years PIC, plus 8 in my 4th so far. We also fly anywhere from 2 - 15 hours a month of ferrying, which doesn't count toward your max. Sorry to disappoint. All told...8,422 TT and 3,283 PIC.

Now, you might remember there was an original question on here that most everyone forgot after about the third post. If there is anyone out there that flies for SQ, KAL or Nippon with input they feel might be helpful, I really would appreciate the advice. As we've seen on here, my age/hours/PIC time can basically be an afront to some people. I have spent a lot of time in Asia the last few years and really do like it, as well as the culture. Given the awful US hiring prospects and the fact I a) would like to finally make decent money and b) would prefer a little more professional environment to what I currently have, I would like to apply for these positions. I see the application in two ways:
1. A Chief Pilot looks at my Captain application and says, "There's no way I'm putting some 26 year old (which I will be by the time any of this happens) in the left seat of my plane!" or.....
2. A Chief Pilot looks at my FO application and says, "Why would he want to go back to the right seat? How desperate is he?"

Hopefully, that makes sense. I'm just trying to see it from their side of the table. Dominican, I have no problem walking in the door as an FO for a 3-5 year contract but don't know which to make application for. I have been told by a couple of people, including our CP, to just apply for Captain but show a willingness in the interview to go the FO route if asked.

NOTE: I'm not arguing over hours and age anymore, but anyone with nothing of relevance to add can feel free to assail however much you wish. I am who I am and the facts are all true. If you don't like, that's really your own problem Thanks to all!

[Mr.White]

Keep dreaming boy!!!!!!!

With that flight experience you should have the maturity enough to get the answer to that question yourself.


Mr.White:ok:

[GA715]

Haha thats so true Mr White. :}

Nice day to go fishing isn't it? ;)

[moneytalk001]

Its a "Set Up"...i think we all got sucked in...:hmm::hmm::hmm:

[smiling monkey]

Hired as SO on a 747-200 through a connection at work. Didn't need CPL yet because I was only qualified to fly as a relief SO. Nothing else. They only hired me because I would come work for about $20 an hour and it was another body on board if people needed to sleep for an hour. "Everyone else dies in flight, I am still not supposed to touch the controls." Seriously, that's what my trainer told me. :)

LOL! that's the funniest thing I've ever read on pprune. Good one mate, but don't give up your day job.

[betpump5]

Didn't need CPL yet because I was only qualified to fly as a relief SO - on a 747.

Oh my god. I have never laughed so much in my life. I love PPrune. Free comedy.

As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, or sciolists*, to elicit certain reactions.

[betpump5]

Minimum Requirements

All Second Officer applicants must meet the following minimum requirements:

An ICAO Airline Transport Pilot*s License (ATPL) (obtained without exemptions) or ICAO Commercial Pilot*s License (CPL) (obtained without exemptions) with passes in all ATPL ground examinations
A Valid Multi-Engine Instrument Rating
A minimum of 1000 hours fixed wing (preference will be given to applicants with turbine or multi-engine experience)
Experience commensurate with age
A current Class One Medical
Fluent spoken & written English

[gengis]

Singapore Airlines won't include more than 350 hrs into the TT count for airplane types <5,700 kg (12,500 lbs). So out of that 8000+ hours, all that Cessna & Baron time would count as only 350 hrs.

And S/O time wouldn't be counted either.

So it's highly unlikely they'll look at you.

[Silver Spur]

This guy looks more unrealistic than impressive to me. My brother in law had his command on B732 at the age of 24, but he had only had like 3100 HRS, which is totally realistic.... NoT 8000TT at 25......

[Sky Dancer]

Congratulations on a remarkable career.Personally I don't think you should have a problem getting into an airline as there are a few Captains who are relatively young in Asian carriers.Best of luck :ok:

[I Love Midex]

2. I started flying at 15 and got the certificate about a day after I turned 16 to solo, had a neighbor who owned his own Cessna doing little contract mini-cargo runs and went with him every chance I got. We did 50+ hours a month together for over two years and I had 1,343 hours by the time I graduated high school.Not that I really care about this, but I am bored and curious:

You got your license in the U.S. or somewhere else? If it was in the U.S., the minimum age for a Private Pilot certificate is 17. The minimum age for a Commercial Pilot certificate is 18. Let's say you were somehow 17 when you started flying with your neighbor (though you imply you were 16). Your neighbor had a plane doing "little contract mini-cargo runs," implying that he was being paid to fly, implying the need for a Part 135 certificate, implying that to log any of the time doing the actual 135 flying (if your hands were on the controls OR if you were acting as a SIC) you would have to have a Commercial Pilot certificate and be checked out and approved on your neighbor's certificate.

You flew 50 hours a month with him, you say. Were you both logging the time in a single engine plane during the flights, and if so, how? If, rather, you actually flew with him 100 hours a month and only actually flew the plane on the empty legs (part 91), and you were only able to log 50 hours a month that way, how did you log it? If you were 16, you weren't old enough to log it as PIC, since you were not old enough to hold a Private Pilot certificate. You also could not log it as solo, since you obviously were not the only one in the plane. And solo is not the same as PIC anyway. If your neighbor happened to be a flight instructor as well, you could log the time (only the Part 91 time) as dual and not PIC. That would mean that you flew 100 hours a month with your neighbor, since you couldn't log the entire flight time (the paid, Part 135 portion), only the empty legs. When did you have time to go to school or do anything else, since flying 100 hours a month is obviously a full time job?

If you were in fact 17 when you flew with your neighbor (implying that you had your PPL), you still couldn't log any legs which were Part 135, since you weren't 18 yet and thus not able to hold a CPL. So you still would have had to be flying 100 hours a month and only logging the Part 91 legs (50 hours a month), IF you were the sole manipulator of the controls.

Let's not even talk about the Part 135 minimum pilot experience requirements (IFR or VFR) once you WERE 18, which would also imply that you were checked out and put on your neighbor's Air Taxi certificate, if he had one.

Do you see how questions are raised here?

[betpump5]

I Love Midex,

I was actually going to write something along those lines - pointing out that you actually need to be 17 to have a PPL and how the hell did he log the hours because if all of this is true, then what he has actually done is illegal - along with his "neighbour who flies packages around"!!!! :ugh:

However I decided that the only thing that needed to be quoted was the fact that he did not need a CPL to be a relief pilot on a 747! I almost died at that point by laughing too much.

This clown is a First Class moron - along with SkyDancer, Gengis, and figuroF8 who believed him.

[gengis]

Excuse me, Betpump, I did not believe him, thank you.

I was just trying to be a little more diplomatic in the way i replied.

[744Cap]

It always amazes me the incredible energy people on pprune will expend to insult individuals they don't even know.

I actually am interested (if people can give serious answers!): What is the youngest 747 PIC you've seen, whether cargo or passenger? I have met a 29yo CN on cargo but not sure I've seen anyone under 34-36 on the 744 passenger side.

[Silver Spur]

UpEarly,

This forum is for aviators or aviation enthusiasts to discuss REALISTIC issue. I'm afraid your story fits to the kind of "Alice in Wonder Land" instead of this forum. :eek:

SS

[LarryDCableGuy]

I am happy with your achievements but DO NOT apply with KAL because I don't want to fly with a maverick like you.
I am curios, you said you became a PIC at age 23, don't you need to be 25 to get the ATP in the US?

[411A]

...don't you need to be 25 to get the ATP in the US?

Negative, age 23.
I think the original poster was a tad....optimistic, shall we say, about his prior expereince.
At one time, long ago, I personally was the youngest expat Captain at SQ, on the B707, at age 28.
The CAA there checked very carefully on my experience, telexes to the various companies, DGCA's etc.

[MexCrew]

to B744CAP.....
_________________________________________________

I joined my present 'Cargo' outfit as DEC on B744ERF at age 35.
No previous heavy experience but lots of B738 PIC time, ICAO and JAR OPS.

An extremely lucky bugger in the right place at the right time!! =)

2 years on, I have clocked just over 1,000 hrs on type and loving every minute of it!!

Happy contrails.

Cheers!!

[Sky Dancer]

Ahem....I hope you did note the touch of sarcasm in my post...I guess I did not put that across very well...:}:ok:

[mannymux]

The guy only asked what his chances were? Whether I believe him or not, I won't spend all the time and energy to calculate his hours. Just answer the question if you know the answer. Geez!!!! Why are some of you guys bashing this guy? Who really cares?

[TWN PPL]

DEC on B744ERF
No previous heavy experience

Is it Jade in the early days?

[CDRW]

Wow - what a good read!!! How different from all the other posts!!! Got a few people scratching their heads tho!!:ok:

UpEarly - good bloody luck. I think you just might be genuine, but for sure if you going to have a go for a job in Asia, make damn sure your hours and experience are water tight.

Would love to see the looks on some of the old custy local captains, when they read that resume!

PM if you wish!

[point8six]

Youngest Captain I trained for the B744F was 29yrs old - he was very good and had previous A300F command experience.
I'm guessing that nowadays the youngest Captain in SIA would be about 35 yrs old.

[OLVpilot]

Again, the obvious problem with this story is not the ability to obtain the hours stated in such little time, but rather the inability to legally log this flight time. The majority of the time he said he had flown is unloggable. Any half-intelligent FAA CFI can recognize that.

So my question, now that we've established that this story is fabricated, why would any lie to a bunch of people on the internet about how great they are? Seems weird.

[CDRW]

Well OLV I dont think that the guy is actually bragging about great he is! To us it just seem to good to be true . As long as there are no Parker51 hours then and hours and hour!! Many cargo operators flew way beyond "legal" limits in terms of monthly and yearly hours - they kept crashing in spectacular fashion every few years tho!!

As I said before - Good luck.

[rjslim]

This guy is funny. I youst to do interviews for my old regional and would love to interview a guy like him. I would laugh in his face just before I kicked his a$$ out of the interview. What a joke.

[CDRW]

And then you would go hire Capt Renslow!! Now who laughing.

[B737NG]

Wouldn´t a phone call to one of the people he flew with verify the truth? It is common practice to ask for a Person who can verify that he was employed / flew for that outfit. Either he was logging the "Atari" hours as well or he is the Genious in Aviation.

I remember one of my Training Captains on the Turboprop, he was in command with 26 and had more then 5000 hours. He was "young" as well and did some Ferry flying over the Atlantic with Fairchild. He got a job later as F/O on the A330 for about 2 years and then upgrade again. He startet his PPL with 17 and got his Commercial Licence with 19. Impressive to watch him flying back then. Today he is with EK, well expirienced and bored but wealthy. In his case I would say young but not too young, today he is young enough.

Fly safe and land happy

NG

[slowto280]

Any of us who has flown even close to 1,000 hours in a 12 month period know that it is a full time job to get to that point. It doesn't allow for a lot of off time. During a (even close to) 1,000 hour year, quite a few nights are spent away from home. So where is (was) the time to do all of the normal things a person of 16, 17, 18 and so on, might do? School, study, sleep, just to name a few.... I don't think people are bashing, just finding it VERY hard to believe. Someone above is very correct in saying many here (at Pprune) enjoy bashing and belittling others, but I think not the case here. I believe it is just shear disbelief. :rolleyes:

[betpump5]

No offence to my Pprune colleagues but why are you all still discussing this.

There are at least 2 fundamental sentences he has mentioned which shows he is a complete and utter liar.

1. Not requiring a CPL to be in the RHS of a 742-F. WTF????

2. Getting his PPL at 16 when we all know you have to be 17 to get your PPL but can go solo at 16.

Kids, go back to school.

figurof8,

are you going for the record of the most gullible person of 2009?

[UpEarly]

Betpump,

You are an insulting, arrogant, miserable SOB. Your PM was (not so) much appreciated, and there is nothing I feel for you but complete sorrow. I am sure you have brilliant CRM, an extrememly happy wife and kids who adore the sight of you returning from a trip. At least that is all true if your pprune personality has absolutely nothing at all to do with real life. Unfortunately, that's not very likely. At least I don't have to put up with you except on here, which is more than enough.

I came on pprune to ask a simple question. Nothing else. It wasn't a job interview or a request for reference, just a piece of advice. At the end of the day, my experience is exactly what I said. To people who have issues with any of it, I'm sorry to disappoint but the hours and facts are all exactly correct. I was very blessed to have people that mentored me, took some amount of risk to put me where they did, etc. I also worked my freakin' tail off and had almost no life for the better part of ten years, so I'm not going to apologize for moving rapidly.

To the five people who sent me PM's and the ones who made legitimate points on here, I truly am thankful. To the rest, whatever. What I don't get is why no one asked the question I would have immediately thought of..."Why on earth would anyone come on here, join the site, and make all this up to ask a question that would have absolutely no relevance in any way whatsoever if it weren't all true?" If I only have a license to drive a milk truck, then my question is pretty pointless, isn't it? So why waste my time on making the post initially?

Finally, I have met plenty of people on the ramp and in the terminal at airports around the world with stories that blew me away. I've met them in the cockpit, too. I one time flew with a Captain who started flying when he was 12 years old. Flew with another who was hired to fly a B58 at 16 and making money at it. Hate to tell you, but the whole world isn't the US and UK. Again, the facts are all completely true, and the original question was legit and meant with sincere interest.

I was respectful in asking and have always been the same in my dealings at work. I wish the same were true on here.

[XanaduX]

I'm not questioning you on your past hours, but if I were you, I'd just apply to those airlines you stated, Korean, Singapore Airlines etc and let them decide whether you're suitable or not for the job. I don't really see the point in you asking here. This ain't Big Brother where you get voted off pprune island, mate. Just apply if you have the minimum requirements.

[parabellum]

In SIA the minimum age for a Singaporean FO is 26, National Service complete. Non Singaporeans can join younger but have a 'penalty' added to their DOJ to ensure they don't get an unfair advantage over their Singaporean colleagues. SIA would look very closely at your hours and they would also write to your employer before they offer you a contract to ensure you are who you say you are etc. The youngest DEC I met was in his forties, many are in their fifties.

[filejw]

Guys, I don't know this guy but I do believe what he writes. However i also think he logged time early in his his flying career that shouldn't be counted . BTW in the US you don't need a CPL to get an FE licence. There are a # of cargo outfits in the US that this scenario could have been played out...JW

[OLVpilot]

That is my view above. I feel he is telling the truth, but unfortunately has logged quite a bit of flight time under rules and regulations that he wasn't qualified for and is thus invalid. Many falsely assume that you can just sit in the cockpit and log whatever time you deem fit.

If the scenario was presented at any regional or major in the US, it would be scrutinized and ultimately dismissed as time logged in which the pilot was unsuitably certified. I would imagine an East Asian carrier used to hiring expats with solid, unquestionable jet time would be even more curious.

[betpump5]

"Why on earth would anyone come on here, join the site, and make all this up to ask a question that would have absolutely no relevance in any way whatsoever if it weren't all true?"

Ok. I'll bite.

That is a good point you make. Something I did not give consequence to and also can not reply to. There are many reasons why someone may pretend to be someone they are not and to list them is meaningless.

However I am sure that you can appreciate why your thread has been met with a majority of cynicism rather than constructive posts. You have written statements that are so illegal that makes them untrue. Like having a PPL at 16 and don't even get me started on the "don't need a CPL to be a 747 pilot - relief or otherwise".

However, lets pretend for one nanosecond that what you have written is true.

Therefore...

You are a 747 Commander. So you should know full well that a large chunk of your 1000 of hours per year that you accumulated between 16 and 19 is not only un-loggable (I think I made that word up) but also invalid - I'd go as far as to say illegal.

There are many professional pilots who have queried your posts due to these hours. Sure you can say you have 8000 hours but this will be met with scrutiny as you have openly admitted that you have flown more than the limit each year every year.

There is a reasons we have a limit on the amount of hours you fly - especially if you work for an airline. In my airline, we have strict rules on personal private flying in case we reach the maximum and muck up the whole scheduling of our professional jobs. Not to mention human factors issues.

If the scenario was presented at any regional or major in the US, it would be scrutinized and ultimately dismissed as time logged in which the pilot was unsuitably certified. I would imagine an East Asian carrier used to hiring expats with solid, unquestionable jet time would be even more curious.

If you really were a 744 captain, then you would be aware of the above quote concern.

So it begs the question why tell us you have 8000 hours when a large part is actually invalid. Is it to impress us but on your application form you will actually only put the realistic figure of circa 5000 hours?

Your post has more holes than Swiss-cheese. So please forgive the cynicism. Hopefully my reply to you has summarised why I and many others have laughed in your face.

The post by IloveMidex basically ripped your hours to shreds. Care to reply to his/her post? One more thing, not many 747-400 Captains come onto pprune asking for advice on what they should do in terms of applications.....

figuro8 - you did reply..by replying.

[betpump5]

One more thing - some laughable comments here:

I one time flew with a Captain who started flying when he was 12 years old

I started flying with daddy at 6 years old when he flew with Danair. But you won't see any 727 hours in my log book.......

Flew with another who was hired to fly a B58 at 16 and making money at it

BE VERY CAREFUL. You are one sentence away from having every single aviation authority knocking on your door. And if I'm very much mistaken, a visit from the Feds!

1. You need to be 17 to be a PPL holder.:D

2. You can not fly for remuneration on a PPL.:D

3. You need to be 18 to have a CPL:D

Give it up.

[Mr.White]

UpEarly,

I don´t see what´s the big deal. Let say your 8000 TT flying time and left seat on 747 are true, you should have maturity enough to.............just apply and go for it.

In my opinion your problem is not age. You don´t feel you can do it.

Anyway try and good luck!

Mr.White:ok:
767 Young Capt.

[slowto280]

filejw: BTW in the US you don't need a CPL to get an FE licence.



Sec. 63.31 Eligibility requirements; general.

To be eligible for a flight engineer certificate, a person must--

(a) Be at least 21 years of age;

etc.......................

and

Sec. 63.37 Aeronautical experience requirements.

..........................



b) An applicant for a flight engineer certificate with a class rating must present, for the class rating sought, satisfactory evidence of one of the following:(1) At least 3 years of diversified practical experience in aircraft and aircraft engine maintenance (of which at least 1 year was in maintaining multiengine aircraft with engines rated at least 800 horsepower each, or the equivalent in turbine engine powered aircraft), and at least 5 hours of flight training in the duties of a flight engineer.


(2) Graduation from at least a 2-year specialized aeronautical training course in maintaining aircraft and aircraft engines (of which at least 6 calendar months were in maintaining multiengine aircraft with engines rated at least 800 horsepower each or the equivalent in turbine engine powered aircraft), and at least 5 hours of flight training in the duties of a flight engineer.(3) A degree in aeronautical, electrical, or mechanical engineering from a recognized college, university, or engineering school; at least 6 calendar months of practical experience in maintaining multiengine aircraft with engines rated at least 800 horsepower each, or the equivalent in turbine engine powered aircraft; and at least 5 hours of flight training in the duties of a flight engineer.(4) At least a commercial pilot certificate with an instrument rating and at least 5 hours of flight training in the duties of a flight engineer.(5) At least 200 hours of flight time in a transport category airplane (or in a military airplane with at least two engines and at least equivalent weight and horsepower) as pilot in command or second in command performing the functions of a pilot in command under the supervision of a pilot in command.(6) At least 100 hours of flight time as a flight engineer.(7) Within the 90-day period before he applies, successful completion of an approved flight engineer ground and flight course of instruction as provided in Appendix C of this part.


:uhoh:

[betpump5]

Sec. 63.31 Eligibility requirements; general.

To be eligible for a flight engineer certificate, a person must--

(a) Be at least 21 years of age;

etc.......................

and

Ouch. Another infringement! OK fair enough. Don't need a CPL (which you stated you achieved at 21).

However as per your post

For those with math challenges, which we'll cover more later as well, that's 19 years 10 months old and 3,266 hours according to my logbooks. Keeping up, are we?

Hired as SO on a 747-200 through a connection at work

Illegally flying a 747 as Relief before your 21st birthday..........:D:D:D:D

....The Feds are coming UpEarly.

You have been rumbled.:=

[eliptic]

MY God! give the guy a break! He asked a question, and got the macho mob after him instead

[gengis]

UpEarly,

For all i know, you might be from some 3rd world place where anything can happen and you can buy yourself some hours & a licence. Now i'm not saying that you ARE, but i am saying that in relation to your original question about whether carriers like Singapore, Japan, Korean will hire you - they will be looking into what experience that you are claiming here in EXACTLY THE SAME WAY THAT most guys in this thread are.

You can say "don't believe, tough ****".... and whatever - that's not the point. The point is, if you apply to any of the above mentioned carriers for a Direct Entry Capt position and tell them the same story that you've told here, the likelihood is that not only will they reject your application, there is a far greater than even chance that they would also blacklist your name for any future applications on the grounds of being suspected of illegally logging hours in the first place.

As i've said, what you have done may be legal & legit from where you come from but in the said countries much of it is not. And remember, you are the one applying to them, not the other way around.

I dare say that i know what i am talking about; out of the 3 carriers that you mention, i have flown for two of them - AS PIC.

Do what you feel you must, but that's the way SIA/JAL/KAL will look at you.

[a345xxx]

well done up early. you seem to have got an amazing headstart on your career. i just need some clarification from you or anybody who can help.

you said you logged hrs as a SO but you had no licence and you just did radio work? correct me if i am wrong, but shouldn't you at least have a radio operators licence to do that? also if you have no licence and if you are in the cockpit are you part of the flight crew team and are entitled to log the hrs? if yes, then wouldn't anybody who has managed to wrangle a jumpseat also be entitled to log the hrs he spent in the cockpit?

cheers,:bored:

[CDRW]

a345.... I think that there are more than a few individuals out in the wide world, who have logged hours by just being in the plane in seat 24B!!!

It's an interesting thought - if you fly your hours under a authority that say allows 1200 or 1400 a year ( maybe somewhere in central Africa) are those hours now "illegal" in another authorities eyes who would say only allow 1000??

As I said before - UpEarly bloody good luck!! If you do land something please let us know!

[A300PFE]

"JUAN" is that you ? :suspect:

[smiling monkey]

mate, forget about SIA, KAL, Nippon .. with your hours and past experience, why not apply here?

NASA - Astronaut Selection (http://nasajobs.nasa.gov/astronauts/content/application.htm)

LOL! :E

[betpump5]

Smiling Monkey,

I think you will find he is over qualified for NASA. The guy is already living on Mars.

[Silver Spur]

Hi,

I've posted 2 replies to UpEarly, which clearly show my disbelief. However, my primary concern is NOT about this person's experience vs age or his chance of getting any Job with the fore mentioned carriers, but my concerns are more to the following;

1. We never know if some professional journalists or people that live their lives to critic the aviation industry is monitoring this forum, and by reading the original post by UpEarly, and his other posts describing exactly what he had done, and his self-defense posts by showing details of his license, hours and age, could jeopardize the image of the aviation industry in general, and professional pilots in particular.

2. This forum is the place for true professional pilots to have a professional discussion. I'm afraid the posts by UpEarly would also jeopardize people's trust in PPRuNe, because there are threads, like this one, that does NOT reflect pilots professionalism at all. i.e. Being SO and not having CPL.

I sincerely apologize if any of you have expressed these concerns on previous posts, but really I feel necessary to address this matter, especially to UpEarly.

Little piece of advice for UpEarly, you can show yourself off like you have done in this forum, but please be reminded, we all have commonsense mate, and to me, my commonsense dictates not to respect you, because all the bull**** you wrote. True, you are only asking opinions, but please think of the implications of your statement.

Now UpEarly, I know it is impossible for you to confess that you lied to all of us (or yourself) about who you are, but at least you can shut your mouth up and leave this forum - Thats better than nothing.

Best Regards,

SS

[eliptic]

image of the aviation industry in general, and professional pilots in particular

That was this weeks most funny thing to read:eek:

If you are afraid of the journalist i think that posts from some "professional pilots" evaporate that image more then he do!

Actually my theory of why many police become polices in macho uniforms comes to sense in other uniformed professions to.

Hope i did not upset you:mad: ,,if so whatever:ugh:


Now UpEarly, I know it is impossible for you to confess that you lied to all of us (or yourself) about who you are, but at least you can shut your mouth up and leave this forum - Thats better than nothing.

Best Regards,

I guess the "best regards" was somewhat ironic

[E165]

Thank you Silverspur...And yes, this tread has been most amusing. So mate, just fess up or stay quiet. You should have said you had around 4000 hours or so and a RJ or 737 command. That may sound a tad bit more plausible....

Cheers