CHC Puma floats deployed in flight

[Blind Bob]

BBC News reports a CHC Puma had to return to Aberdeen this morning after the floats deployed in flight.

[Vertical T/O]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There was also 30 or so successful flights today but nobody hears about them.

Get over it BBC.

[Horror box]

As above + we also had an whole host of flights today in this country without incident, same yesterday in fact, and the day before and many many before..... you get my drift.
At least we know the floats work. Better an unintentional deployment in the air, than landing in the water and nothing going off. I recall at least two Lynx during my time, where that was the case, and they sank very quickly. The Puma has a pretty good reliability with floats.

[Fareastdriver]

It has happened before in Oz about ten years ago. They inflated when the floats were armed on finals to a rig in the middle of the Timor Sea. No replacement floats bottles available so eventually it was flown back with them still inflated, some 180 n.m..

Pretty wet in that part of the world and it was believed that the co-pilots collective switch assembly had got rained on before the flight. They now have a plastic sleeve over them on the ground to keep them dry.

It didn't make the papers then. No reason why it should now.

[TSRA]

And the scare mongerers continue their quest......
Quit it guys and give us a break! All pilots of the three UK North Sea Op Companies are working hard to quash the ‘bad vibes’. There’s enough trouble in PD without pouring 100LL on the fire.

[simfly]

Well, it was an impressive site as is came back in.....

[HeliComparator]

simfly

I think its highly unlikely that the floats deployed when they weren't armed. Even if they did, 130kts is within the demonstrated flight envelope for flight with floats deployed / inflating. It really isn't a drama!

HC

[Teefor Gage]

The installation must have been close to the shoreline if it had just coasted out and was on finals to a rig.
I heard that a passenger had smuggled a nitrogen bottle on board and inflated the floats deliberately.

[332mistress]

Simfly

Your source is not very close to action as he is totally wrong is he a Walt?

332M

[GKaplan]

I hear it was on finals to a rig.
Early stages of the approach - IAS 110kts

Wonder how far it flew with the floats out.
Rig is a bit more than 50Nm from Aberdeen (30Nm off Peterhead).


Agree with HC: floats were armed (normal at this stage of the flight).
A big bang - nose down attitude for a few seconds (a bit of a change in aerodynamics!!) - and then normal flight back to base (just a bit noisy though!).
It really is not a drama and you just wonder what crosses some minds...:rolleyes:

[Fortyodd2]

Quote:
Is the float deployment switch on a 332 anywhere near the AP de-couple button?

I've never flown the Puma but I have it on good authority that the aforementioned switch and button are within 6ft of each other!! :eek:

[helonorth]

A bit touchy GK? I think I have heard of accidental float deployment because pilots thought they were uncoupling the auto pilot. Don't sweat the small stuff.

[Blind]

helimutt, I have refused to post on Pprune for about 2 years for a few reasons but you should know better than to ask that question so I feel the need to post!

First of all; there is NO need for speculation. The crew returned quite happily and they confirmed the floats deployed without any crew intervention. This is backed up by the fact that the frangiable cover on the button is still intact. So you speculated for no need whatsoever, just ask a straightfoward Qu & it would have been answered :ugh:

By simply asking that here will just give those ppruners who know nothing something to speculate on.

Also I don't understand why you think it has anything to do with the AP decoupler. Hmmm A small round button on the cyclic Vs a big square covered button below the strip panel and both used at different phases of flight. People do (not in this case) make mistakes and I for one, will never criticise them, but I find it sad you immediately jumped to that conclusion even though you actually work for CHC.

Get a grip, all experienced pilots know tech problems happen every day, some are just more visible than others.

GKaplan Thankyou for asking the same questions!!

Goodness gracious, Pumas are quite happy to fly with floats.

NO BIG DEAL!!

[helimutt]

Happy now?
I asked the question, as I have never seen inside a PUMA, nor would I care to. What is it with some people? So full of themselves that they love to criticise those who ask what they feel is a valid question.

Oh well, suppose i'll crawl back under my rock now.

Blind: it made my day to think that someone felt the need to post having wandered the wilderness for the last two years, but, hmm, what is this:-

http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/315930-rotorheads-calendar-march-2008-a.html#post3949593

Check out that date!!

[helonorth]

Pretty fragile egos, I say!

[outhouse]

Seem to remember a L1 float deployment in Aberdeen years ago, as it was being dragged out the hanger by the engineering chaps. Duff wiring was the problem then.
outhouse
:ok:

[HarvestReaper]

Gentlemen since I became a member of this forum I have refrained from commenting preferring to treat inaccurate statements with the contempt that they deserve and absorbing valid facts as an aid to rectification of defects.
However as a licensed avionic engineer with 25 years experience on super pumas I have to inform you that there are three float firing switches, one on each collective & one on the control panel, only the one on the control panel is guarded by a mica diaphram, the others are recessed inside a housing. An SB was introduced years ago to resolve the collective water ingress problem, this involved potting the firing switches terminals & drilling a water drain hole in the switch housing.
As for the location of the AP couple disconnect switch it is located on the cyclic. Not quite 6 feet away but far enough.
So in conclusion gentlemen get your facts correct before you post, honest it really does help understand what you are on about.

[LastMinute]

On the S-76 the floats button and AP disconnect are both on the cyclic, and I've heard of one incident where the floats were inadvertently deployed due to finger trouble.

Apparently they hovered for 20 minutes while the engineers came out and deflated them...

[Hummingfrog]

Many moons ago maybe even before Pprune I was capt of a 365N2 when we had a similar experience but this time just as we rotated away from the helideck with the co-pilot as HP (honest). There was a bang followed by a whooshing noise and my chin window filling with a grey balloon. Wasn't me guv was the first response from LHS:E! Due to our being on min fuel for the beach we landed back on the rig as I didn't know what the excess drag would do to my fuel consumption (cruise in a N2 is about 135Kts but with floats inflated it is 90Kts).

Engineering advice sought - this was the days before 2 day risk assessments - advice from them was remove float covers and bring it back lad.

So brought it back to Aberdeen at 90kts - very noisy drumming from floats - told ATC I had to make approach to Red hangar side which was no problem - on short finals - hangar doors opened and most of company came out to watch:ooh:

Five+ hours after inflation floats were still rock hard and supporting weight of helicopter - nose oleo fully extended. Which is reassuring:ok:

Fault traced to probable water contamination as a/c had been offshore in very wet weather.

Didn't even make local P+J newspaper.

HF

[Blind]

Oooh one post in one year! Trust me I've wanted to post on a few occasions to say get a fecking life!!!But it's not worth it it, I'm glad I left PPRUNE just to be a lurker, you make me laugh quite often..

Enjoy!!

[helonorth]

Some more fragile than others!

[HeliComparator]

HarvestReaper - you forgot the AFDS system complete with an additional 4 firing switches (float switches), which I presume is fitted to all N Sea 332Ls these days (should be, anyway).

Pilot's inflation button is recessed into a side-facing pod under each collective, plus one on the centre console. AP disconnect (not that anyone would be likely to want to disconnect the AP in flight) is on the cyclic.

I'd put my money on the AFDS, but since the AFDS cannot fire the floats unless they are armed, and since they shouldn't be armed above max speed for arming/inflating, an inadvertant inflation is nothing more than an embarassment.

HC

[Camper Van Basten]

I'm told this was a collective switch problem, P2 side, water ingress (as HarvestReaper said).

Well done to the crew who handled the situation with absolutely minimum fuss.

:D

[outhouse]

HarvestReaper,
I see that this is your first post in the forums, though your technical expertise (as I would hope it should be) seems accurate, your approach and leading paragraph content seems to demonstrate a certain contempt towards your flying colleagues.

Informative technical content, shame about the opening paragraph.
Outhouse.
:ok:

[helimutt]

Personnally, I found HarvestReaper's post informative and a lot more use than some of the pathetic comments often posted here.

As for Blind's comments, must be time of the month, or are you always that angry. Woman in a man's world, etc! PMSL:rolleyes:

[Blind]

Not angry mutt, but if you'd just asked the question "were the floats inadvertenly fired?" it would have been answered so there was no need to speculate. Someone else also commented on your Qu but you've chosen to ignore that PMSL!

I apologise for exaggerating 2 years when it was 14 months:rolleyes:

[212man]

Perhaps all those Super Puma pilots that jumped down Helimutt's throat should get out more!

Would you have scoffed and scorned him if he'd asked "is the float deployment button anywhere near the AVAD inhibit?" ? In the BHL S-76s (A+ models, anyway) the float deployment button is on the cyclic in exactly the same place as the 332 AVAD inhibit which, in-turn, is the same location as the Bell 412 AP decouple.

So, a simple "no, the buttons are on separate controls" response (like HC's) might have been more professional and courteous.

[Blind]

The point is peolpe are very quick to speculate and make assumptions. In this case as both the aircraft and crew got home it was simply not necessary. At the moment passengers and the press are very twitchy Re all things helicopter and I don't think assumptions are healthy. The initial report in the papers was OTT and inaccurate and as I said earlier technical problems happen all the time but floats are more visible than, for example, a broken windscreen heater.

All 3 North Sea companies are struggling with various issues right now and it is time to stick together and rumours don't achieve anything.

Helimutt has deleted his initial post.

[Blind]

Anyway, a serious question now!

If you look at the pictures there is a webbing strap along the sponson floats to hold on to. There isn't one on the nose float. Any reason why? Apart from the crew don't deserve one etc.....

[helimutt]

212 man, Thank you. Maybe I don't always type things the way I think them? But you knew what I meant. I knew what I meant and I mixed up the 'de-couple' button for AP button.

I don't claim to be an expert by any means. I'm always just along for the ride.:ok:

Blind, I believe you were closer to this than you are letting on. :E

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

Not sure what all the fuss is about "AccidentalInflation" has happened before and will happen again I am sure.

I do not know what caused this one.....but does it really matter!!!

If it was technical - it will get fixed.

If it was errant finger (which I seriously doubt) - Big deal.

They worked!!!

Good enough for me.

Can't help remembering several years back when my 3 year old son stood up on the back seat of an AS355 (My trusty Air Ambulance) and poked his tiny little finger through the nice bright shiny red button in the roof panel and .......................F...KIN BIG BANG!!!!!

£2,500 for a new fire bottle squib and a very embarrassed Chief Pilot (Me) having to explain that one to my Ambulance Boss.

To add insult to injury my Dad (who was very ill at the time) was in the front seat getting some 5 star bull**** from his hero Air Ambulance son (me) all but **** his pants with fright and pulled the bloody door off trying to get out.

Also many years back flying as talking ballast in S61 with a real nasty piece of work P1, not allowed to fly cos I am crap, can't play with the radios cos it's his callsign...kind of thing.

Flying back in the dark, bored and nervous I began to twiddle idly with the yellow RADALT BUG alert light cover as it seemed very satisfying to rotate it between my finger and thumb...like a pert young nipple it was...until TWANG!!! the flipping thing came loose and in doing so ejected a bulb, a spring and a washer (none of which were found) in a glittering shower of sparks that filled the cockpit, upstaged only by me snatching back my now burning fingers from the offending assembly and in the process hauling back the cyclic so hard the P1s face hit the dashboard and the howl of anguish from the pax drowned out the hitherto comforting hum of engines and rotors.

This incident serving to justify entirely the P1s view of my professional demenour and overall contribution to the world of aviation.

My only comfort being that it took him a full ten minutes to recover before he vented his considerable wrath in my direction.

Fingers...bliss for some women.....music for many...deadly when stuck on the wrong hands!! Some knobs should simply never be played with!!

[Tuckunder]

At last some light hearted banter. Well done DB you made me laugh.
Tuckunder

[Blind]

It was a short circuit on the P2 collective switch. No surprise.

Have a nice weekend boys and girls:\

[TipCap]

Well done DB. Made me smile too :D:

The Press are looking to jump on anything these days "helicopter". I saw the aircraft as I was taxying out and I thought the floats looked quite colourful.

In my time in the North Sea (and I wont say how long but I started here in early 70's, 1970's that is before anyone says otherwise) I have known several uncommanded float operations on the AS332L (even witnessed one on the ground on the EC225 too) and certainly it is no big deal. Aerodynamically - yes a bit noisy and embarrassing to see, so I am told.

But hey, the Press don't exist on good news do they?

Fly safe guys :ok: