The Transition from Warrior to Arrow

[skylarker1983]

Hi all,
I have recently begun training for my CPL, and am about one week into the course.
The course is structured for 20hrs on the warrior, then 5 on the Arrow.
I'm aware that this is cutting it fine for becomming familiar with the aircraft.

To get the point, im looking for tips and hints and any info to get a headstart on the arrow. I just got the POH and the checklist today.
All stories and advice welcome:ok:

[Cows getting bigger]

Depends on the type of Arrow but:

Slow down. If you don't before you hit the cct, you will be a little busy trying to lose speed.
High tail versions need a little more work on landing.
Put the gear down (slightly tongue in cheek but easy to forget).
Set the power (24/2400 for example) and leave it.
Trim - but you would do that anyway. ;)

[Leezyjet]

Remember that if the nav lights are on during the day, then you cannot always see the 3 greens, so don't panic and think the gear is not down.

As CGB said, slow down. It is very quick. You can always lower the gear early to help you too.

Oh and it glides like a brick too, don't pull the power off too early in the flare or you will hit the ground hard. You need to leave a little power on until you're just about to touch the ground, or have actually touched down depending on what your school prefers.

:ok:

[A and C]

Put some weight in the baggage area, two up the C of G is on the fwd limit making it less easy to land.

[LH2]

it glides like a brick

I don't agree with that. I'll take a brick anyday :}

[ReverseFlight]

The hot start in the Arrow (fuel injected) is a trap many students fall into. If the aircraft has been flying and the engine is warm, do not start with mixture at full rich - it should be at idle until she fires, then you advance the mixture and adjust the throttle. Read up on your FM.

As it glides like a brick in practice forced landings (with engine at idle), you could consider delaying gear down until you are on finals as it produces a lot of drag.

[Cows getting bigger]

Good point - learn the undercarriage system. Some have an auto-extend version (less than 14"MP and about 100kts?) which can really upset you glide. This is further complicated by having the ability to override the auto-extend in various ways (most have a locking pin, a few older versions require you to hold the override in place). If the system operates, you will get three greens but still have a gear unsafe warning until you select gear down in the normal manner.

Don't bother asking anyone here for ideal speeds etc as there are so many versions (slab wing, tapered wing, 180hp, 200hp, hi tail, low tail, 50USG tanks, 74 USG tanks).

Regarding hot starts. If you get it wrong, go and have a cup of tea. :)

The best advice given so far is to read the specific aircraft flight manual.

All that said, the Arrow is a nice stable platform, good for going places.

[grl22]

And climb at 90 knots. Get it off the ground, gear up and set 90 knots. Forget Best angle or Best Rate. 90 knots. Depending on the aircraft itself that will be somewhere between 500 and 1000 fpm climb off the deck.
I recently flew a club aircraft with an engine < 100 hours old. 2 beefy guys and fuel to tabs on a 35 degree C day and had 1000 fpm at 90 knots.

A trick to get a bit more glide speed, especially if needed towards the end of the glide approach, is to pull the prop fully coarse this takes it from a flat disc to almost open. You can feel the accelration when you do it.

Once on the runway, don't forget to go full fine again before throttling up otherwise you won't accelerate.

[wobble2plank]

Quite heavy in pitch compared to the Warrior.

Don't forget to raise the gear (or lower it for that matter) after your PFL on the skills test! Did that on mine whilst the examiner was looking out the window pointing out where his wife went to school. Couldn't figure out why I was accelerating sooooooo slowly! :O

Always remember BUMPS in the circuit as a backup. (Brakes, Undercarriage, Mixture, Pump (fuel), Security)

Mostly enjoy!

(The one I flew had the most vile purple interior ever seen outside of an episode of Starsky & Hutch)

[skylarker1983]

Thanks for all the help people,

It's +TSRA outside this morning in Florida:mad:,
so im locking myself in a room for the day and swatting up with all the info I can get my hands on.:ok:

[ReverseFlight]

Agreed that avoiding the flooding was the purport of my first post.

Auto gear drop is disabled for most training aircraft, I believe.

[Keygrip]

The auto gear doohickey is still prevalent in the USA.

[Cows getting bigger]

I would just caution against using prop ti coarse for stretching the glide. My rationale being that you will not have this luxury with a real engine failure; the prop will automatically go to fine.

Auto-extend is still quite prevalent in the UK.

[moona]

Its also worth considering increasing the number of arrow hours vs Warrior hours. I looked into this and have opted to do the whole CPL on the arrow.

Say the difference in price is £20 per hour, an additional 10 hours on the arrow will cost £200. How much does a CPL resit cost in comparison?

[irishone]

Don't forget your 3 green 1 in the mirror :)

I never flew the arrow, but maybe buy the cockpit picture and do some chair flying. That always helped with me, lifes easier when u dont have to worry about checklists or where things are.

[Keygrip]

Where's the mirror?

[irishone]

Haha sorry ... :O was thinking Seminole there . Did my cpl all in twin.
Jayus been way too long since I was in a single engine!
Actually thats a good question though....is there a visual way to check the gear is locked down?? Anyone know? Out of curiousity

[Keygrip]

You can never tell if the gear *IS* locked down.....even in your Seminole (all glass, was it?).

You can reasonably expect it to be if you have three green lights - but the only thing you can guarantee is that you have three green lights lit.

In an arrow? You may get a gear down suggestion by shadow or reflection - or the ever popular tower fly past.....but see it yourself? I'd go with "No".

[ReverseFlight]

You can see the Seminole's nose gear via a small convex mirror affixed to the pilot's side of the port engine.

[Jerr]

In Australia you have to do the CPL test in a plane that TAS over 120 knots,so I did my CPL test in the Arrow.

It does glide like a brick, I threw the gear out last thing in my CPL PFL test, judged it nicely.

The testing officer did put the nav lights on whilst I was looking out the window so I put the gear down,and did not get 3 greens on one circuit. He had also pulled the circuit breaker. I picked that one up, replaced the circuit breaker still no 3 greens. Started to panic:confused:, realised I could still fly, so went around. Went through the company check list for abnormal indications, nav lights off, 3 greens!!:D

Good luck on the CPL test. It seems like so long ago now, then then next step up is a twin.

JERR

[thetimesreader84]

All I could ever tell with the mirror on the seminole was that there was something dangling down below the nose. Whether the nosewheel was locked, I couldn't tell...

TTR

[irishone]

Hence the 'one in the mirror'...

[Keygrip]

You may be able to see the gear - but you don't "know" that it's locked.

I agree that it very likely *IS* if you have the corresponding green light - but you don't *KNOW*.