Cost of owning & flying own plane in uk

[ash506]

Hi,

What are the typical costs of having your own plane? things like storage, general up keep, and cost to fly? (And I mean just a cheap aircraft (<£50k for 2nd hand one)

I've had a good search on the internet, but can only find data relevant to over in the US.

[IO540]

£50k will these days get you a fairly reasonable used plane.

Fixed costs might be
£2k-4k on the Annual (depending on "suprises")
£1k-2k insurance

Variable costs might be
£50-100/hr fuel and the fund for the engine overhaul and the 50hr checks

There is a pile of other costs, to do with licenses, medicals, various unscheduled maintenance related stuff.

You need to fly some 20-30hrs/year just to stay any good. That will be the biggest ongoing cost.

More basically, flying is a game in which you need decent funding just in case something goes wrong. You need to be able to write a cheque for say £10k-20k anytime. Not saying you will have to but the capability has to be there. So if you have £50k don't buy a plane for £50k. Buy one for £30k.

You will get loads of feedback, with plenty suggesting you buy a microlight which you can fly for £0.10/hour :) But there is truth in this - there are a lot of very cheap planes around now; limited to VFR only and frankly looking a bit flimsy (I saw some new 450kg ones from Slovenia at a fly-in in Greece last week) but they will get you, your Size 8 girlfriend and a toothbrush up into the sky for a lot less that you would expect.

[Crash one]

You have two options. Either Cof A, maintenance = push a/c into hangar throw cheque book/ bank details after it, wait for result, have heart attack.
Two. Go the LAA route, do your own maintenance, cheaper running costs depending on a/c type, possible run it on Mogas, grass strip/farm shed hangar.
Depends what you want in performance, £50K would get you a very nice modern distance cruiser, or a capable aerobatic.

[flybymike]

And having a size eight girlfriend, I0540 should know..;)

[Justiciar]

Before you look at cost, decide what you want to do with your aircraft. Owning outright is an expensive option in most cases. Having said that, an aircraft is like any luxury item. You buy out of choice because that is how you want to spend your money. You will not break even on cost unless you fly more than most of us can manage. Hangerage and insurance alone will be £80 per hour + if you fly 50 hours a year. Fuel will be £20 + per hour depending on type of aircraft, avgas or mogas. Then if you buy something relatively new there is depreciation and lost interest on the money which would otherwise be sitting in your bank.

Maintenance of a C of A aircraft will be around £2k per annum as a minimum; a permit airctaft may be as little as £3 - £400.

A combination of group ownership and hire can actually be a good option and will give you the possibility of having a variety of aircraft at your disposal.

[IO540]

And having a size eight girlfriend, I0540 should knowAnd I am hanging onto her - they are scarce these days ;) One day I might have to get onto the ultralight route and I will need her then...

As Justiciar suggests, a group (a syndicate) is the thing to really investigate. Just make sure the other members are similar (to you) in their outlook (mission profile) and their funding ability.

Ownership is wonderful for all sorts of reasons, and for many is the only option, but it is the most expensive option.

[jxk]

Cost of owning your own aircraft = (insurance + parking + maintenance + engine fund + painting + fuel & oil + general (battery, tyres) + wireless licence + radio replacement + instruments etc) X 2.
IOWs think of a number and double it! But great satisfaction all the same :ok:

[IO540]

In some ways, one can over-simplify and end up with inaccurate guidance. For example, I bought a brand new plane 7 years ago, and have since spent virtually peanuts on it. I guess that unscheduled maintenance has cost me under £1k to date.

Had I bought a 25 year old one instead, it would have been much cheaper to buy but the unscheduled costs would have been, probably, tens of thousands over the following 10 years. It's still cheaper that way, but only if a) you drag cost of capital into it and b) make no allowance for the value of downtime and hassle.

There are ways to end up with a predictable operating cost but buying something very old (the average UK GA 1970s spamcan) is not one of these - unless the owner is a licensed engineer and attaches no cost to his own time :)

[Legalapproach]

The formula to apply is to think of a number that will form your maximum budget, add a 0 and then multiply by 1.5:ok:

I think it was Felix Dennis who was quoted as saying "If it floats, flies or f***s it's cheaper to hire it".

[PH-UKU]

I think it was Felix Dennis who was quoted as saying "If it floats, flies or f***s it's cheaper to hire it".
Today 18:01


.... and if it does all three ..... then you might as well own some of it (http://www.scotlandonfloats.com):}

[IO540]

"If it floats, flies or f***s it's cheaper to hire it".

Unless, of course, you want to be the only one who is f*****g it :)

Quite applicable to planes too. It's nice to know that somebody else didn't bend it in some dodgy landing.

[Stephen Furner]

G-BSEP has put his costs for his C172 on-line to help people making a choice about ownership. This can be found at: http://www.dmjwilliams.co.uk/flying-costs.htm (http://www.dmjwilliams.co.uk/flying-costs.htm)
For myself I think that the kind of flying you plan to do in terms of hours in the air, distance of journeys, further training and interest in aircraft technologies should guide your selection. The last point about technologies is important in determining if self-build, self-maintained or restoration of aircraft are viable routes to ownership for you.

[IO540]

G-BSEP ownership cost are all on-line


Interesting site.

I haven't gone through the figures in detail but the first table appears plausible.

My somewhat tongue in cheek observation is that at £1-£2/hr his oil burn is massive; my IO-540 burns at ~1qt/10hrs which works out at about 50p/hr. And that is the most expensive aviation oil one can buy...

The sad observation is that the vast majority if his flights are basically nowhere, and even the longest one, at 2hrs (which no doubt is hobbs time i.e. includes ground running) could have been driven in a car in no more time. I do a lot of local cloud hole drilling too, but would chuck in flying in a flash if I never went anywhere. This group has a lot of stamina...

[Rod1]

A £50,000 budget will get you a lot of kit covering a wide range of tastes. If you are happy with VFR and fly in daylight then the sort of aircraft which IO540 hates may be appropriate. Just to counter some of disinformation on load carrying;

Take a typical Rotax 912s powered VLA permit aircraft – say a SportCruiser;

The aircraft will lift two 200lb people (90kg each!) plus 4 hours of fuel, plus 60lb of bags.

Its G limit is +6/-4G (which is a lot more than most 40 year old spam cans were capable of when new)

£50 k should be in the ball park to get you one with <100 hours on it and running costs will be;

About £1500 insurance
About £400 a year for maintenance and paperwork
17 lph of Mogas (giving about 110kn)

Alternatively you could go for an RV, which will go faster, may be aerobatic, but it will be a bit older and cost more to run in maintenance and fuel, but still be much less than a C of A machine.

Rod1

[wsmempson]

This is a theme which seems to come up every 2 or 3 months, so I'v take the liberty of posting my answer from the last thread.

"Some typical ownership figures based on something on a C of A, flown for 100 hrs P/A, kept outside (don't even ask about hangerage) in the SE of England, are as follows:

Parking (£175 pcm) £2,100 P/A
Insurance £1,000 P/A
Maintenance (1 x annual) £2,000
(1 x 50 hr check) £400
Engine fund (£7.50ph X 100hrs) £750
fuel (£1.50pl x 30 x 100) £4,500

Total £10,750 P/A

Which equals £107.50 ph!

However, if you fly 200hrs P/A, the sum is more like this:

Parking (£175 pcm) £2,100 P/A
Insurance £1,000 P/A
Maintenance (1 x annual) £2,000
(3 x 50 hr check) £1,200
Engine fund (£7.50ph X 200hrs) £1,500
fuel (£1.50pl x 30 x 200) £9,000

Total £16,800 P/A

Which equals £84 P/H!

Clearly there is an economy of scale to be had, whereby the more you fly, the cheaper it gets on an hourly basis. I have also ignored the cost of capital, as the cost/benefit breakdown of buying something new(expensive, but small bills) verses something old(cheap, but with big maintenance bills) is a matter of personal choice. However, you will have to decide if flying around in a 'shed' is something you are prepared to do, and also whether you are happy with regular periods of downtime as a result. These figures are ball park figures based on a C of A A/C, maintained to the easa version of a public transport C of A, and also assumes that you dont bend it and nothing goes wrong with the avionics or paint or airframe....etc.

There are some good reasons to either join a group or run a PFA machine or a microlight. If your flights are VFR only, this would probably seem like the way to go.

Personally - and this is a totally personal point of view, from someone who has the means to own by himself - I'm uneasy about groups; when they work, they are a wonderful thing - when they don't, it can be very uncomfortable. As with managing a freehold house divided into flats, the maintenance schedule generally gets dictated by the meanest person in the building."

But to each there own....!

[IO540]

the sort of aircraft which IO540 hates

Do I?

What makes me a bit wary is when I press my finger against a cowling and it deforms by about 1".

You don't achieve 450kg or 650kg etc at zero cost.

But that isn't really the point. For short VFR trips, these planes are fine. It's the loss of IFR utility which is the worst thing; the build quality is down to personal preference.

[englishal]

I must admit, I'm a big fan of RV's. They are fast, look good, can be fitted with capable avionics, and some are aerobatic. Wish I had one.

Fixed costs for our CofA simple SE, fixed gear aeroplane, values between £30-40k, costs:

£2500 pa for the hangar - but we sublet half so recoup £1250
£1400 insurance - up to £7 million
£2500 annual
£300 per 50 hour / 6 monthly
£500 for bits and pieces

Total: £7200 before getting airborne. But we recoup £1250 which goes into the contingency pot.

We actually charge £65 per hour including fuel, and £100 per month which normally covers annual, 50 hour(s), hangar, insurance and leaves about £2k in the account. This is split 6 ways so you can see it works out at very cheap flying with contingency made for repairs and upgrades.

[scooter boy]

"Unless, of course, you want to be the only one who is f*****g it http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/smile.gif"

IO540 I think it is safest that way in all 3 respects of the F.
Less likely to drown, crash or contract a nasty disease.

Renting is seriously overrated. If you can afford it ownership is best.

SB

[IO540]

No matter how one rolls this around, there are just two ways to fly long-term and have good currency etc:

1) outright ownership alone

2) outright ownership in a syndicate

:)

[Rod1]

IO540 I could not agree more on that one!:ok:

Rod1

[davidd]

This group has a lot of stamina...

The group are disbanding and G-BSEP is for sale, so not 2 much stamina...:)

[mikehallam]

Of course the ability to fly your own a/c is greatly enhanced if one chooses a proven microlight 3 axis or flex-wing, because of sensible costs combined with the licencing & technical support of either the LAA or BMAA.

Those needs are why they were formed, offering comradeship & mutual benefit to thousands of pilots who could otherwise only dream of ownership or group flying.

Admittedly not a continental night & day tourer, for example a second hand Rans S4 offers reliable 60 mph pleasure at 8 litres/hour and tiny fields are safe to use. Self maintenance is good for the soul & you then really know how well it's been looked after.
Two seats and 100 knot costs more as the Sportcruiser has shown and they don't have to be built like a brick s***house to be trustworthy.

mike hallam

[katana 1]

Can any give more information on the Rv'S the 8 if ppossible.

[steveking]

Katana my RV6 G-PWUL

XP 360 FI, 3 blade constant speed MT prop.7ish US gal normally gets me about 150Kts but if I'm in a hurry 175kt cruise is ok. At MAUW I can get over 2000ft per min, on my own about 3000ft per min. My friend has an 8 and his is about 10kts faster. My friend went from a CTSW to the 8 and you would not prize him out of it now for love nor money.

As for cost of ownership, if you can it's worth every penny.