Selling your plane within Europe

[vanHorck]

There are many outlets possible for the sale of a piston plane, from mags such as Pilot, Flyer, dedicated aircraft selling publication but also internet sales via the websites linked to mags as well as independent sales.

Obviously in the current economic, unless you're an MP who can recharge to the taxpayer, not that many planes change hands .

My question is what outlet does work and what outlets do not work?

any experiences you'd like to share?

VH

[Ultranomad]

Well, I haven't sold any aircraft, but I am in the market to buy one, and planecheck.com (http://www.planecheck.com) seems to be the best for the European market: it's big, user-friendly, international, and indexed by the globalplanesearch.com (http://www.globalplanesearch.com) search portal. What are you selling, by the way? :O

[julian_storey]

Depending on the value of the machine in question, you might do better trying to sell it in the States with the exchange rate as it is.

[wsmempson]

Dave Morris at Welcome to Just Plane Trading Ltd (http://www.justplanetrading.com) seems to buy and sell a lot. I've bought and sold a fair bit through him, and have found him friendly and straight to deal with. His prices aren't particularly high - which is good if you're buying, and less good if you're selling - but he does tend to shift his stock, unlike quite a lot of the other brokers, who seem to have the same old ironmongery for sale, year in, year out.

There seems to be a fair bit of denial amongst owners at the moment as to where prices are, right now and the sad reality (for me as an owner, just like all the other owners) is that the market will not pay the same prices today, for our 30-40 year old machinary, as it did 2 years ago.

Planecheck seems a strong clearing house for stock into europe, but I don't know how much is actually selling at the prices being quoted.

[gasax]

Sold mine through AFORS.

If it is sensibly priced it should go.

If it is a type in demand then Planecheck is worth a look but most of the European markets are quite insular - with the UK being regarded as off the the far top left with some odd, different arrangments and an inability to speak proper..... whatever the language is.

[IO540]

I don't think there is any one "good" place to advertise. The advert scene is far too fragmented. I would start by knocking up a nice web page for it, with lots of photos, the usual rules about meta tags matching the body text, and making sure google indexes it.

If one googles for "XXXX for sale" one gets lots of hits, and from my business I find that most people these days hit google before reading any printed publications.

Re denial, I think there is denial around in both senses of the word. A lot of "common" planes are not fetching what the owners think they are worth, but also the less usual types (if in good condition) can fetch suprisingly high prices. There is certainly money around, in the £150k+ IFR tourer market.

[BackPacker]

I would start by knocking up a nice web page for it, with lots of photos

Not just a lot of photos but also some honest info about the planes equipment (mode-S, ELT?), maybe a W&B schedule, some highlights from the maintenance/damage history, information regarding lifed items, some links to reviews and so forth. Anything a potential buyer would be interested in.

A lot of planes on e.g. planecheck.com only have three pictures and an asking price.

[IO540]

Very much agree - it also takes care of most time wasters.

BTW watch out for scams. I've heard of some fairly clever ones which involve a fake escrow agent. If you do escrow then use one of your choice. It's a tricky business because of the amount of expensive due diligence which a buyer needs to do - unless he's an engineer.

I would also digitise the logbooks. It doesn't take long to simply photograph the whole lot, and if somebody wants to see the maint records you can just mail him the whole CD full of jpegs. One should do this anyway in case of loss/theft because the plane can be rendered worthless by something like that.

[Ultranomad]

Not just a lot of photos but also some honest info about the planes equipment (mode-S, ELT?), maybe a W&B schedule, some highlights from the maintenance/damage history, information regarding lifed items, some links to reviews and so forth. Anything a potential buyer would be interested in.
I would also digitise the logbooks. It doesn't take long to simply photograph the whole lot, and if somebody wants to see the maint records you can just mail him the whole CD full of jpegs.
Exactly - this is just about the only way to appeal to buyers beyond the immediate vicinity. In recent months, I asked some sellers if they could provide such information before I take a 1000 km trip to inspect the plane. Sadly, most of them didn't care to answer. Their aircraft are still up for sale.

[pa28r driver]

talking of david morris at just plane trading i have just bought my arrow from him.
he is very straightforward to deal with and wont tell you what isnt.his prices are fair (if yer buyin )and he does move his stock.
i found him very pleasant to deal with
all in all i would recommend him highly
safe flyin all

[IO540]

Sadly, most of them didn't care to answer. Their aircraft are still up for sale.

That's because stupidity or illiteracy has never stopped somebody getting a PPL.

I would not think that such a haphazard owner is going to take good care of the plane either - most people have much the same attitude to everything in their lives.

[vanHorck]

thank you for the info, the plane is a pristine PA34 Seneca IV (with mode S and lots of other goodies!).

I especially like the idea of knocking up a good webpage for the plane with full information and good quality pictures.

For now it is only advertised in/on Pilot and i was not happy with their service.
The email was misspelt and questions about the web publication were not answered, promises to call back did not happen. I was dissapointed.

Thank you again!

Bert

[scooter boy]

Depending on what you're selling:

controller.com

$60 per month for a photo ad online which will get you a far wider audience than any of the UK pilot mags (which charge at least double).

If you are happy with a non-photo listing then it is free.

I have two aircraft on with controller.com at present and advertising with them has generated plenty of leads from all over the world.

SB

[UV]

For now it is only advertised in/on Pilot and i was not happy with their service.
The email was misspelt and questions about the web publication were not answered, promises to call back did not happen. I was dissapointed.

OMG dont mention PILOT Mag! They are the WORST.
My stories, yes stories.

1. Arranged from the Far East (in January) for my Ad to appear in the April issue. Wrong phone number. No replies.
So I got on to them and they said sorry will re-do it in the May issue for free.
Again wrong phone number and no calls. More apologoies and they said I could have it free in the June issue. I demanded 3 issues and got them.
Insisted on seeing a draft...guess what...still wrong number.. Eventually appeared correct 3 months later in the June issue. Half the season gone.

2. Another Ad. Sent in revised text for the 2nd issue and they sent proof (I always ask now) with the original text. GRRR. Then the Accounts sent me a Court Summons for the bill which I had paid....Then when I sold it they left in on the Website for 3 months until I told them to take it off...

Never Again..

UV

[vanHorck]

Sad how such a well respected publication can be ruined by a commercial dept....

[wsmempson]

I also had an irritating encounter with the complete cocks who work in Pilot's classified department; as a matter of principle, I'd never advertise there again.

[IO540]

For those who really want to try printed mags, the widely handed out free rag called GA Europe seems to shift planes OK, eventually.

But like I say the scene is very fragmented and you could spend thousands getting a reasonable coverage.

[Cusco]

LOOP mag has, at the moment and at a price, a 'Hold Till Sold' feature whereby for a single fixed price payment the Ad remains in the magazine till its shifted.

Our Share is in on this basis: It hasn't been sold yet and it remains to be seen how long Loop can sustain this feature before their pages become bunged up with unshiftable aluminium with the space generating no further income for Loop,

Cusco:rolleyes:

[stickandrudderman]

I also had an irritating encounter with the complete cocks who work in Pilot's classified department; as a matter of principle, I'd never advertise there again.

Are you James May?

[vanHorck]

Following the advice G-MAIK now has her own website and I've entered it on the PlaneCheck Aircraft for Sale - New planes and price reductions (http://www.planecheck.com) website, which I found to be easy to use!

Thank you to all for your advice!

VH

[BackPacker]

Very nicely done. I'm not in the market for a twin but if I were this is the kind of info I'd be looking for. Hope you move it fast and prove the opinion of this forum wrt. the best way of selling.

Just some friendly tips:

sightly -> slightly
Under interior you mention Bose instead of Bose-X once. Bose makes more headsets than just the Bose-X.
Add some highlights from its history, including damage (or mention none if none). Are you the first owner or not, what type of role was it used for, how often did it fly?
If you have it, a number of oil analysis and compression measurements so that trends can be seen. Particularly since it looks like the engines are close to TBO.
Pics of the stormscope and moving map GPS
W&B schedule or at the very least empty weight & MTOM.
Any current squawks which need to be rectified?
Add "for sale" to the title (top of the page and in the HTML <title> tag)?
Maybe some links to reviews, manufacturers page, performance indicators?

[vanHorck]

Wow, you ARE a pro!

Thx for the advice!

I will make some adaptations tomorrow. I am the third owner and I used her for personal travel as far east as Romania and as far south as Jerez de la Frontera. Both previous owners did the same, so I ll be looking for a similar owner!