FI in UK

[Gavilan]

Hi!
I have been this last 2 days visiting many airfields around London looking for FI positions and in everywhere same answer: no vacancies at the moment,sorry.

I was at Elstree, Biggin Hill, Fairoaks, White Waltham, Stapleford, Denham, Blackbushe, Wycombe and Cranfield;so if anybody can tell me about another one where some school is hiring...it´ll be great.
I´m FI but still restricted.

Thanks so much

[BEagle]

Sorry to hear that; last time I was at WW they were flat out with work.

I'm seriously considering giving up flight instruction after 20 years; not only is it become increasingly expensive to maintain my FI rating, Class I medical and FE authorisation, but I just don't seem to get the time to instruct these days.

I also think that, with the current state of airline recruiting, maybe some of us old stagers should make way for the struggling youngsters at the bottom of the instructional food chain.

[greenno]

I have same problem that you, but in Spain, I'm looking out of Europe, but

Malaysia. need 500 hours Given

Philippines. any one answer.

Ayla Says "not thank you" and I hear that is hiring for UK FI

China only JTFA but is better still out of that flight School

USA JAA FI or OACI level 6 and/or 200 hours given.

So any place for us?

[Mickey Kaye]

I totally agree with Beagle - it is way to expensive to maintain a FI rating these days. Especially when you consider the financial return and as soon as you are allowed to instruct on a PPL I will drop down to a class two medical.

Gavilan

Don't be too down hearted the work will come. On two occasions I have had to look for instructor work when there has been a downturn in the industry. And on both occasions I have managed to find work although it has at times been slow.

The most important thing is to get your foot in the door. So network, network, network the person who gets the job isn't always the first candidate to apply for the job it the one who is in front of the CFI when a job becomes available. So get sitting around aerodromes and buy tom, dick and harry cups of coffee and listen into the gossip on who got an airline interviews etc

Also consider a Monday to Friday day job to pay the bills job and instruct at the weekends then as your build up you student portfolio switch to full time.

Also consider where do you want to work rather than who has got a job going. It's no good getting a job at a place that isn't that busy or the pay is dreadful. I would decide which flying school suits you best and then concentrate all your efforts there.

Good Luck

[tropicalfridge]

I wish you luck finding work. However, there are clearly no FI jobs at the moment and all the good FI courses are booked up for months to come.

What is happening now is that schools are occasionally taking on more instructors without retainers and then giving them very few hrs, certainly not enough to make a living. Why are people doing the training when there is clearly very little chance of a job?

[VFE]

Possibly because things don't stay bad for long. We are already the best part of a year into this recession now so with every passing month things will be closer to improvement. The ghastly decision faced by newbie CPL's right now is whether to shelve their career plans for a few months or take a gamble on the FIC... judging by bookings it would appear they are going for the latter and fair play to them. There are opportunities abroad but like any big move it is a gamble in itself.

Things where I instruct are picking up rather nicely now that summer is almost here. Truly, it doesn't feel as disconcerting as it did at the start of the year.

So there's some positivity for ya!

VFE.

[Stumpyotoole]

tropical fridge: why bother doing the course?

simple, its (in my experience anyway which is admittedly limited but no less valid) one of the most enjoyable flying courses, stripping you right back to the basics of flying and giving you chance to impart that knowledge to others. Yes, things are slower at the moment but they will improve. One things about instructing is that the sunshine tends to bring people out of the woodwork. considering the current climate, the school i teach at seems to be getting very busy. all our instructors have been booked solid for the past few weeks, and we are having to turn people away! The trouble is that if you go through life with the attitude that there is no point doing something because there doesn't appear to be any reward (a job at the end) when you finish you will end up being satisfied with very little. life is all about taking chances and if you want to go for the FIC and can afford it then go for it! there may not be a definite position immediately but if you put your mind to it something will come up.

Mickey Kaye is right, network your bum off if needs be.

I myself took a risk and gave up my full time instructing job at the end of last year to take a 3 month contract elsewhere in the country. while doing this other job, i spent spare time at the local airfields, getting to know people and occasionally (unfortunately having to pay!) flying. I kept myself current and I got to know a lot of people. All the schools knew I was looking for an instructing job, but they had nothing at the time. A short while ago I got a phone call out of the blue asking if I could come and do some part time instructing, taking on some of the trial lessons and checkouts. It really has only been a short time and I now have about 6 students at various stages of the course! I have a part time job elsewhere which pays the bills, allowing me to instruct and not feel the pressure of having to fly to put food on the table. Its not ideal as i now cannot fly as often as i like, and the club want me to go full time but I am thoroughly enjoying it. In my roundabout way what I am trying to say is there are jobs out there - a positive attitude goes a long way - keep your chin up!

Gavilan, good luck with your search, have sent you a PM

stumpy.

[Gavilan]

Thanks everyone for all replies!

I don´t gonna give up,that´s for sure.I´m just starting but all of you know that´s really hard at the moment anywhere to get a job. I´ve been today at one more airfield around North London(hour an a half by drive) and it wasn´t really bad, I gonna call them again next week to see how is going on and visit one more airfield in South London as some of you told me.

Thanks so much for your support,:ok:
Gavilan



Ah!and Greeno,I know how is Spain right now you should go abroad.I´m from Córdoba compañero.

[greenno]

Hi I was in China in JTFA je je je je I'm trying to get a job out our "MARAVILLOSA ESPAÑA".

You try with North London Flight School, I had a positive e-mail but after two or three I handn't more neews.

Good Luck

I live in Jaén

[sher muhammad]

hi i am sher muhammad an engine technician want to share some knowledge about model 250 b 17 c

[tropicalfridge]

Well, my experience and what I'm hearing from friends in various parts of the country is quite different. There really are virtually no FI jobs, and schools are tending to take people on and then give them very few hrs, presumably expecting things to pick up in the Summer. The crunch hasn't hit the bottom yet if you listen to those who know, so this really is a problem. I have friends who have been looking for FI positions for monthsm and others who are getting only a handful of hrs a week wondering why they ever bothered.

The last thing you need having spent £40-60k on training is another £7k, particularly if you wouldn't have looked twice at instruction a year ago when the airline market was better. And, most importantly, when your chances of getting a good FI position bringing decent hrs is poor.

[Stumpyotoole]

maybe schools are hesitant to take on someone who 'wouldn't have looked twice at instruction a year ago' ?!

and are not a handful of hours better than no hours at all, or worse still - having to pay for hours to keep your hand in?

[BEagle]

You will note that the UK CAA strongly supports the return of PPL/FIs who will be permitted to receive remuneration for conducting flying training.

This means that, in a couple of years time, the UK traiing industry will, at PPL level, be able to be far more selective about its choice of FIs. People with several hundred hours of private flying in the UK who are preared to instruct for a couple of days per week may well be more attractive to them than someone between fATPL and the airlines.

Even if the MPL becomes a success, the training schools probably won't be geared up sufficiently to turn out graduates in any numbers for some while.

So where does that leave fATPL holders? Dependent upon the wretched airlines who have consistently and abjectly failed to invest in training - and have been able to get away with it for far too long.

[KFTW]

Hi,

What is FI salary in Malaysia? How is life there?Any info please.

Regards,
KFTW

[tropicalfridge]

All a bit bleak really. I think the flying schools have been in a position to be highly selective of their instructors for the last 5 months, but as ever the aviation job seems to go to the person in the right place at the right time. From the school's point of view, the fact that they rarely take on those looking to be career instructors is moral justification for the poor wages they pay to instructors, and so suits them in many ways.

Schools like having lots of instructors standing around waiting to fly on a moments notice, particularly if they can get away with paying them a tiny retainer and subsequently only when they fly. When supply outstrips demand this is exactly what seems to happen.

Who knows, in a few years perhaps we'll be back into boom and regional airlines will be taking low hrs people again. The knock on effect will be far fewer going into instruction, and the void may to a small extent be filled by PPL/FIs. Then the bust will come another 8 or so years later and then competition for FI jobs will reach fever pitch again as a kind of holding pool until the airlines are back.

[Airbus Girl]

But I understand that its not a case that anyone with a PPL can be a full flight instructor. I think that you still have to have CPL knowledge (ie. exams completed) and a FI rating. Then you can teach PPLs only. As far as I know. So although this will have some effect, it won't save that much money - the only saving is the hours for the CPL flight test.

[tropicalfridge]

This is also my understanding, but the issue is payment. At the moment PPL/FIs aren't supposed to be paid, the new rules are supposed to allow payment. The full details aren't complete yet but some have said it will only allow instruction on what is now effectively the NPPL.

[greenno]

But is JAA rule or a CAA UK rule?

In Spain is forbidden any job with a PPL licence, to be a FI, aerial works is necesary a CPL.

[BEagle]

EASA part-FCL NPA 17b proposes that PPL FI certifcate holders may be remunerated for flight instruction whereas LAFIs may not.

[tropicalfridge]

I think we'll all watch the EASA rules with interest as they develop, the PPL/FI pay thing is a different issue. Under the current rules and circumstances, FI jobs in the UK are pretty hard to come by at the moment.

[Spunky Monkey]

BEagle
Don't retire, the new and not so new FIs need somebody to turn to for advice, confirmation and good stories.
I don't always agree with what you say, but I do listern. We ae never too old to take advice, and advice gained from experience is priceless.

Ps I could do with some part time instructional time to keep working through. Loads of taildragger and multi experience - I think.

[assablief]

G'day all,

I am new to Pprune, have a JAR fATPL and I am seriously considering buying a FIC.
I thank all those who have commented on the difficulties of finding a job after the course, but what I really want to know is about the course itself....is the FIC course really so much fun? What do those that have done it make of it? Was it worth it from a personal, skill ganing, fun flying point of view?

Many thanks.

[ifitaintboeing]

I am new to Pprune, have a JAR fATPL and I am seriously considering buying a FIC.

You cannot buy an FI rating dear chap, you have to earn it.

Whilst you pay for tuition and aircraft rental on the course, it will require effort on your part. That effort is ultimately rewarded, after passing the skills test, with being issued the privilege to instruct others.

[belowradar]

Beagle

Rage rage at the dying of the light

Ok a bit dramatic perhaps, I know that we have often strongly disagreed on things however please do not quit until you have to. Remember why you became an instructor in the first place and hopefully you will rekindle the enjoyment and fun (I know there is also a lot of grief at times as well but you really must carry on)