A dream wasted...

[lytebyte2002]

I just wanted to see what the military folk on this forum think about my situation.

OK so im 21 in august just about to finish uni. I have an absolute passion for flying. Been through air cadets, done work experience at a local air park and been getting as many flights in aircraft as I can. Ive always been intrested in the RAF from a little boy where my dad took me to airshows etc.

My problem is one like a lot of people have. Eyesight! I am short sighted in each eye by -3.00 Now I know there is no way with that I would get in the RAF as a Pilot. So I thought to myself so what ill go in as a mechanic, still get to work on the aircraft and get passenger rides. But! I will never get that dream I always wanted, being able to fly and fight for my country. Something that I am passionate for and to be honest something I would probably die for. Even if it was in vain.

Surely if someone has a passion like mine, someone who wants to do this job they would take me on? It doesnt have to be fast jet. I dont mind flying a VC10 or a Herc.

Im just saying there are people out there who have perfect eye sight perfect fitness and who would be great for pilots but are mowing lawns for a job. Someone like me who has the passion who wants to do that job but has one slight defect but they will still turn you down.

A dream wasted!

P.S. sorry for the rant.:*

[Torque Tonight]

The RAF has more applicants who reach the standards required in all respects than vacancies. Your loyalty and enthusiasm is commendable (although not unique - in fact normal amongst armed forces applicants) but if you do not reach the medical requirements you won't get in. I know it sucks but that's how it is. Eyesight is a pretty important attribute for a pilot.

If your desire is to 'fight for your country' look at non-flying options in the services. If you just want to fly, see if you can get a CAA Class 1 medical and if you can, go civvy. Your choice.

Very noble of you to say you 'don't mind flying VC-10s or Hercs'. Many people would sell a testicle for the privilege or flying any military hardware.

And, RTF sticky thread at the top of the page.

[berzerker]

Try applying for NCA

[cazatou]

lytebyte2002

You have my sympathy; however the cost of training a would be Pilot up to the end of BASIC Flying Training is given as £3.1 million for the current financial year.

To spend £8500 per day (every day) on a Trainee who does not meet the necessarily high medical standards cannot be justified. That cost is the average daily cost whether you fly that day or not.

[Red Line Entry]

lytebyte,

I sympathise with your situation - as you rightly say, your problem is not uncommon and 2 decades ago I found myself in the same position as yourself. You have a choice: you can either join up and have a career in that environment, and enjoy Service life and its challenges BUT without the flying, or you can turn to the civilian world where -3 diopters is not a show-stopper (-5 was the limit in my day, a bugger as I was -7). You need to decide what you want more, the flying or the military life.

One word of warning though, if you opt for the military as a ground-pounder, even 20+ years on you will still always feel that twinge of envy when you hear a Fast Jet roar down the runway!

[lytebyte2002]

Thanks for all your replies. I understand that other people want to do it aswell I really do. Do you think the RAF would ever let eye surgery be acceptable?

oh and Torque Tonight I would sell my body not just a testicle;)

Red Line Entry: FLying is definatly what I want to do I have been looking at OAA and want to start their first officer course. Its just I havent got £70000 neither has mum or dad and they aint willing to put their mortgage on the lineso that means no loan.:(

[airborne_artist]

Do you think the RAF would ever let eye surgery be acceptable?

No, as they have no way of knowing the standard of the surgery.

[Jobza Guddun]

Lytebyte,

Your situation is pretty much where I found myself 22 years ago. At 17, my left eye was borderline short-sighted, and I was rejected for military aircrew. Having wanted to do nothing else but the RAF since I was 12, it was pretty shattering. Like you I thought about becoming a technician for the same reasons; I joined as an airframe mechanic, and have spent the last 20 years doing what I think is the second best job in aviation, and in all honesty have loved it most of the time. It's not flying, but it's the next best thing.

On the point you made about civvy flying, a friend of mine also wanted to fly from an early age. Eyesight also ruled out the RAF and he couldn't afford to pay for a CPL/ATPL either. He became a fireman, worked for his PPL, and from there built his hours up in any way possible, scrimping and saving, until he achieved his CPL. He's now an A320 captain for a leading UK airline. He put the work in, made sacrifices, didn't have vast finances, and it took a while, but he certainly got there in the end.

I guess the point is, rejection for RAF aircrew is not the end of the world, and neither is shortage of finances, there is always a way. Good luck in your endeavours.

JG

[Airborne Aircrew]

But! I will never get that dream I always wanted, being able to fly and fight for my country.Easy!!! No. II Squadron RAF Regiment. :ok:

You definitely get to do the "fight" bit which you wouldn't get on a VC-10, (other than possibly arguing with the hotel receptionist about their choice of room for you), and you get to spend hours down the back of a Herc sweating you're arse off, throwing your guts up as it does a low level "jolly" for the crew to the DZ where they, unceremoniously, throw you out with 150lbs of kit and parachutes and leave you to your own devices while they poke off back to the mess for tea and biccies...

Maybe not the "romantic" vision you had but the fact that flying isn't your daily duty makes those trips all the more memorable... ;)

[lytebyte2002]

jobza guddun thanks so much for that advice. I appreciate what you have said because it fills me with a sense of hope.
I think after to uni im just going to go to an AFCO and ask them what the can do for me.
I guess no one knows what the future holds.

[foldingwings]

I would sell my body not just a testicle

With that intent I would set your sights on the Navy!

I am afraid that all that has been said above does apply. However, there are many happy individuals in the RAF who wished for a flying career but never made the grade either for medical or ability reasons. Look at the other branches and go for it - what about air traffic?

Foldie

[FFP]

You definitely get to do the "fight" bit which you wouldn't get on a VC-10,

That's fighting talk. The stuff they do without DAS in both theatres deserve more respect than that.

It doesnt have to be fast jet. I dont mind flying a VC10 or a Herc

Don't confuse ME aircraft with second rate / easy. You'll spend more time in and over hostile country than you think. And without self defense, agility to avoid incoming and a martin baker let down option.


Good luck with whatever you end up doing

[Big G-75]

The RAF has recently lowered the required standard for eyesight. I can't tell you off the top of my head what they are but depending on how bad your eyesight is you might still be in with a chance.

Best bet is to ask the AFCO for the latest gen.

[lytebyte2002]

The RAF has recently lowered the required standard for eyesight. I can't tell you off the top of my head what they are but depending on how bad your eyesight is you might still be in with a chance.

Could you say where you heard this because from what people are saying you have to have perfect eye sight.

thanks

[muppetofthenorth]

I wouldn't trust the rumours about eyesight standards being lowered - they're always, but always, wrong.

If you're that keen on flying jobs, specifically mil, why not consider FAA?

[Muzza9999]

The question here should be 'Can this candidate's eyesight be corrected to 20.20?'. If the answer is yes then why can't they then take up a place on flying training given that if your eyesight detiorates during training then you simply get corrective lenses. The RAF is worse off for losing good officers and pilots (sorry, silly me, that should be the other way round) for this anachronistic view. I wear contacts and am pretty blind without them, hasn't stopped my military avn career one bit.

[Herc-u-lease]

Similar situation; I was granted a flying scholarship, but was hopelessly short sighted - no flying for me in the regular RAF! Truth is, eyesight is a great natural filter. There are countless people out there capable of meeting and exceeding officer and FJ/ME/Rotary aircrew standards. Why would you take someone with less than ideal eyesight when you have multiple candidates, all equally able with perfect eyesight?

The RAF is in a situation where it does not have to take people with correted sight; simple supply and demand.

[Pontius Navigator]

Herc-U, absolutely right.

Funny thing though, no one has had Asthma for a few months. It is just eyesight now.

Same with anthromorphics. They build aircraft for the average plus/minus a bit and if you don't measure up then the next person will. Sad but true.

[Biggus]

I had a dream the other night, as I remember it involved Kylie wearing hotpants.....:O

[lytebyte2002]

I had a dream the other night, as I remember it involved Kylie wearing hotpants..

Nice way to keep this thread on topic:rolleyes:

[tutgby]

Just to confirm eyesight questions:

I have just been up to Cranwell for my pre-IOT medical and know that the eyesight standards for the RAF have just been lowered to the level required for the Navy and the AAC.

tutgby

[Jimmy Macintosh]

Likewise, but my eyesight was very very borderline. He basically said that any minor change would push me out of limits for pilot but could still reapply as nav. Didn't get in, there were a lot of capable guys whose eyes weren't borderline.
Design aircraft now and have a PPL for the flying fix. The thing that ruined my flying dreams was marriage.:E

[Big G-75]

I was at Cranwell yesterday for a medical and the med staff there confirmed the change in the eyesight requirements. One of the other fellas was told he wouldn't have passed 6 weeks previously but can now due to the change.

[Beagle-eye]

Many of us have been there - all I ever wanted to do was fly fast jets and I was gutted when I failed the eyesight test.

I was offered Air Load Master but declined. I felt (unjustly) that the RAF had let me down so I joined the army (Parachute Regiment) and had a great few years.

Came out and have been involved in aircrew training (flight simulators etc,) for the past 20+ years. Got a PPL so I could still have fun in the air.

Fast Jet aircrew would still be my first choice but, with hindsight (no pun intended), things couldn’t have worked out better for me. :)

[Big Trevor]

I was in the same boat 15 years ago. Had been in ATC, flying scholarship from the RAF, PPL and flying in SUAS. In my last year of uni I applied through OASC and was told my eyesight was not good enough. I didn't fancy any of the other jobs in the RAF and instead the RN offered me a job as a Warfare Officer so I took that up for a few years. I still wanted to fly so I bit the bullet, did my flying training and am now in the right hand seat of a mostly white A320, with a red white and blue tail. Loving it! If all you want to do is fly keep that as your goal but maybe take a few years out in the military doing something else as whatever it is it will look great on your CV. Save as much cash as you can for when the time comes to follow your long term goal. All good things come to those that wait, I am testament to that!

Good luck!

[Yeoman_dai]

Hmm. Naval question here... is there different eyesight requirements for different naval aircrew, the doctor who did my pre AIB, pre FAT's medical told me my eyesight (which i'd had tested by a an optician) was right on the line for 'aircrew' but he seemed to think that a Pilot would need better? Is that true, or is it the same regardless of the job?

Passed out of FATs now, 127 Pilot, 146 Observer you see, AIB in June, and if I pass AIB, but fail the eyesight part I may have to kill someone, so it's better I know now, and my AFCO or the doctor didn't seem to know...

[airborne_artist]

http://www.assoc-optometrists.org/uploaded_files/pdf/04-navy.pdf

There are no differences in standards for RN Officer aircrew - P is the same as O.

[Yeoman_dai]

Cheers AA, much appreciated. My googling skill suck.

[AR1]

I got hoofed off a Princess Diana parade for wearing glasses. - They didn't want her seeing disabled servicemen.

[Kengineer-130]

I find it quite insulting that people with corrected vision are deemed not to be up for the job.... :ugh::mad:

[Max7t9]

I didn't make the grade and decided not to join up. I wish i had though, I'm now nearly 30 and have had a pretty boring job for 9 years, everyday i think i think i'd should have joined just to be in the thick of it!

Though call mate.

[rmac]

A few years back I had an initial civilian class 1 medical in Brisbane and had my eyes tested by the same guy who did entrants to the Australian air force, told him I was worried as I had been declined many years before for RAF aircrew due to poor left eye and he confirmed, while handing me my class 1 clearance, that I would have passed with the Australians with that standard.

He then said, "never mind, that probably saved your life !", an unusually cryptic comment in the circumstances :hmm:, do the Aussies crash a lot ?

However, with the recent announcement of increase in defence spending in OZ, maybe those defeated by anachronistic UK eyesight requirements should have a go there.

And if they tell you that you are too old, I'm told Canada is a good place to go, no upper age limit as long as you pass the medical and can give the minimum required return of service, as I understand..

Hope this helps.

[Speedbird777]

Sorry to hear about your eyesight issues.

However, do not think you will now live a life of boredom. I chose not to fly professionally many years ago and instead opted to get a job that pays me enough to have a great flying hobby. I have many firends who are pilots in the forces and airlines and I dont regret the choice I made for one minute. We both envy parts of eachother's jobs but that's just human nature.

Save some money, do your PPL and whatever other licenses you desire.

Good luck!