Buying A Taildragger. UK-v-USA, Luscombe-v-Piper-v-Cessna.

[Flintstone]

So. I can't find a share in anything local which means going it alone. The idea of poling around in something nippy and single seat is attractive but I know the novelty of being Nobby Nomates would soon wear off which leaves a two-seater (or more).

Going places quickly with lots of dials and gadgets isn't what I need which is handy really as that'll keep the costs down and I rather fancy a Super Cub. Which won't. Shame really as that's what I learned to fly on but the little general at home ain't having it.

"Go west" someone told me "You can still find bargains in the States". Well I've spent a few weeks looking and it seems to me that by the time you've either schlepped out there and poked around in barns or paid someone to do it for you then added shipping you might as well buy here and that's without the aggravation factor or risk.

The few J3's I've found here seem to be a bit pricey which leaves Luscombes and Cessnas neither of which I've ever flown.

Over to you.

[vanHorck]

How about a Husky?

[7AC]

A Champ is yer only man. With a C85 or C90 for fields or A65 for economy.

[Blink182]

J3 or L4 are a excellent choice for summer evening bimbling....open door and all that.:ok:

if you want to travel places then a cessna 120 / 140 would be good , but the best choice IMHO is the Luscombe.......good looking, excellent handling, decent capacity (8Es ) and range and with a stick.85 kts at 17 litres mogas an hour. Don't know where you are based , but you could check out Sywell next weekend.......Classic Cessnas and Luscombes all together ... see here.... European Luscombes (http://www.europeanluscombes.org.uk/Events/LCHW.htm)

would be pleased to show you around our Luscombe .

[Flintstone]

Huskys are Super Cub money and more. Much as I love STOL performance I just can't justify it.

Champs caught my eye too. Not too many around though. If I can find something with a stick I'd prefer it and next weekend sounds ideal Blink but Sod's Law dictates that I'll be about 3000 miles away :( A look around your Luscombe would be much appreciated if you're anywhere nearby (East Herts).

[horatio_b]

Brian Bateson at Blackpool Air Centre is selling a Cessna 120 and a Cessna 140.
Neither have flown recently, but might be worth a look.

[Flintstone]

Hmmmmm, sounds interesting. I have a tame engineer who may go halves with me so something in need of fettling might work out.

Thanks.

PS. Stinson anyone?

[robin]

Best of all are Jodels ......

[Mike Cross]

Luscombes (other than the 8A) and Cessnas (other than early examples) have the advantage of being all metal.

If you intend to hangar it then as well as the Jodels I'd take a look at Taylorcraft. Very nice to fly, similar speeds to a Luscombe and slightly better short-field performance (though it wounds me to admit it).

All of these are economic on fuel and most are available on Permits.

Take a look at the events on www.europeanluscombes.org or just register on there and ask questions.

Rob Lees at Leicester is your best bet if talking Taylorcraft.

[Flintstone]

Thank Mike. I added that site to my favourites just a couple of hours ago. Not much for sale on there at the moment but we'll see.

[BeechNut]

Citabria.

With the O-235 Lycoming (115 hp). It's all you need and you can do aerobatics with it.

[J.A.F.O.]

vanHorck

When you've got a Husky for sale for less than a Super Cub I would be grateful if you could PM me before offering it elsewhere. :ok:

[egbgstudent]

I would like to second the comments above. The Taylorcraft is one fantastic a/c. Cheap to own and operatate. Will get in and out of the smallest of strips (lower wing loading than a cub), and will happily cruise faster than a cub.
Check out Taylorcraft.org.uk (http://www.taylorcraft.org.uk/) G-BREY has to be the UK's best example (recently rebuilt to a very high standard). Owned and operated by Rob Lees at Leicester (there are several other examples of the type there as well)
As well as the local bimble for which this type is perfect for, Rob (and others) have managed some fantastic trips, including taking BREY into the arctic circle for some midnight vfr flying.

[vanHorck]

J.A.F.O.

Funny.... Just trying to sell my Seneca IV for a Husky myself....

[Maoraigh1]

Look at the cruising speed, range, load carrying ability, fuel consumption, running cost, and purchase cost of the various Jodels, providing you can keep it hangared. Try the handling.
Compare with whatever else you can find.
(I've been a member of a DR1050 group for 19 years)

[S-Works]

How about an Auster!! They are interesting to fly, have great strip performance and can carry 3.

[stiknruda]

There are 2 Pushpak's on the register. I've flown both and owned one for about 8 years. Very nice, very honest and very cheap - 4.5gph and 90mph. Range of 4.5 hours.

Alternatively an Aeronca Champ.

[Rod1]

If you have access to a hangar then go for a Jodel. Lots around in the UK and France, you can get anything from a basic 65hp two seater up to 4 seats and 120kn, prices are low and maintenance costs likewise. If you are keeping it outside go Luscombe, it is a good machine, will stand being outside and for a spam can:oh:, it is good fun. Do watch out for some of the owners though…:E

Rod1

[pulse1]

Of course, if a hangar is available, try a Condor. More room and better handling than a Jodel. Not such a good short field performance but adequate for most strips.

[Genghis the Engineer]

PS. Stinson anyone?

Got one already, what's the question?

G

[Flintstone]

Any good Genghis?


(The Stinson, not you ;) )



I may not be able to get a hangar locally unless someone from Nuthampstead phones me back. The other farm strips are all full so it might just be a Luscombe. The more I look at them the more I like them, nice and retro.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Any good Genghis?


(The Stinson, not you ;) )



I may not be able to get a hangar locally unless someone from Nuthampstead phones me back. The other farm strips are all full so it might just be a Luscombe. The more I look at them the more I like them, nice and retro.

Me, I'm lousy, but the aeroplane's nice. I own 1/8th of an S108. 411kg payload, lands in about 300m, needs about 600m to take-off, cruises around 90kn, burns a rather thirsty 40l/hr, very forgiving handling at altitude, reasonably easy landings, bit of a tendency to lose directional control on take-off. Bit limited on crosswinds - I tend to limit myself to 10kn, although 15kn is do-able if you've not a lot of choice, but tends to make you work and needs enormous amounts of aileron. Much happier on grass than tarmac - but most taildraggers are. Odd but ergonomically good controls, good instruments although limited and laid out so as to make the scan less than ideal. Handles turbulence averagely well, reasonable visibility in most directions except rearwards, and particularly good over the nose on the ground due to a nicely curved coaming.

I've always fancied a Luscombe too, but haven't actually flown one to compare and do like the enormous payload of the Stinson.

G

[IFMU]

I'm a fan of everything. But in the value department for a light tailwheel airplane, a C120/140 is tough to beat. Not great short field airplanes, at least in the takeoff department if it has the old C85, a cruise prop, and is overweight. But will climb with a C150 and outrun it easily once you go straight & level.

A great type club:
http://www.cessna120-140.org


-- IFMU

[Sam Rutherford]

If it's not out of the budget, then I am 'over the moon' with my Maule (bought in Texas and flown back by myself).

The 'over the pond' part is going to cost USD10K or so (but its an incredble trip and if you can get someone to share the flight and costs it actually works out as the same as flying a similar number of hours in the UK!).

Just my thoughts! Sam.

[chris keeping]

I would agree with 7AC, go for an Aeronca Champion. Solo from the front seat, lovely aeroplane. Owned G-AJON for a few years along with my partner who was then in Cathay Pacific. Many happy memories.

[Jumbo Driver]

The Cessna 140/120 is quite a nice aeroplane but there are three main problems :


It has a control yoke and not a stick,
Clyde clearly reverse-engineered Don's design, and
At the end of the day, despite being a very good effort, it is still not a proper Luscombe ...


JD
;)

[LowNSlow]

I'm with Bose-X. For sheer value for money you can't beat an Auster. Vintage looks (and handling). Easy to fly, satisfying to fly well. They come in 2, 3 and 4 seat versions, touring and aerobatic. The whole fleet is slowly being put onto the LAA Permit system which will make life easier and, hopefully, cheaper than operating on a C of A.

[IFMU]

It has a control yoke and not a stick,
I learned to fly in aircraft with sticks. First a PA12, then an Enstrom. I think the stick is nicer but the yoke is ok.

Clyde clearly reverse-engineered Don's design, and
At the end of the day, despite being a very good effort, it is still not a proper Luscombe ...
A good buddy of mine has a Luscombe project that has gotten out of hand. I think he has replaced about every skin and bulkhead on the airplane, but may finish it someday anyway. His take on the 140 was nearly the same, that it was a reverse-engineered Luscombe. However, he also thought that in some ways the 140 was better. I've never flown a Luscombe, so I can't really comment. I've heard the Luscombe has a reputation as a tricky airplane on the ground. However, I had heard that about the C140 as well, and I found the airplane to be pretty easy to fly.

There are some serious 120/140 bargains here in the states.


-- IFMU

[Mike Cross]

My take on it is that Cessna took a Luscombe to bits and worked out how to make it cheaper. Principal difference is that the Luscombe has a proper oleo main gear while the Cessna has their standard undamped sprung steel version.

I've not flown a 120/140 but I have flown the C152 Texas Taildragger conversion which also has the spring gear. That has a lovely habit of building up a series of bounces during the take-off run that attempt to throw you into the air before it gets to flying speed. You need a fair amount of forward yoke to hold it down.

The Luscombe is easier with its fully damped gear.

The tricky handling reputation is IMHO a bit of a myth, probably caused by tricycle gear pilots thinking they can get in and fly one without any differences training. I've never found it any more demanding than any other tailwheel a/c. One thing you do need to watch out for on it though is stalling it on. Once you let the speed drop too low in the flare it will go down and there will be nothing you can do about it. Best to ensure you are a foot or two off the runway when this happens rather than 15 feet!

It is rumoured that the earlier wire-braced Luscombe gear is slightly less forgiving than the later Silflex unbraced gear (I believe the Silflex has a slightly wider track).

[Flintstone]

Hmmmm, plenty to think aboutthere so thanks very much. I'm trying to take my time and resist the urge to dash out and buy the first thing I see. A share in a J3 (ideal) has come up at Henlow but that's a bit too far away. Wonder if they'll relocate it for me? ;)

Sam. A newer Maule is out of my price range but I did spot an older one in the US. The $10,000 cost has been mentioned to me before so that sounds like a fairly accurate budget. Time to see if those who always said they fancy a share really meant it I think.

[Tinstaafl]

It's not sticks but what about a C170 or a tailwheel C150 conversion?

[Flintstone]

Have thought of those or even a C120/140. Jury is still out.

[Justiciar]

I crunched some figures on importing from the US at length about two years ago. It was possible to justify with the right source aircraft and the help of a good friend who would put it back together at little more than cost. Since then my impression is that aircraft prices in the US (certainly on some aircraft) have risen and the £ has since dropped from $1.90 to its current dismal level. On economic grounds I doubt you will come out ahead.

[Blink182]

Pity you could not make it to Sywell at the weekend....there was a really fine line up of both Cessnas and Luscombes....see....http://www.europeanluscombes.org.uk/community/mkportal/modules/gallery/album/a_476.jpg

and http://www.europeanluscombes.org.uk/community/mkportal/modules/gallery/album/a_468.jpg



Last group of aircraft about to depart for Sackville Farm on the sunday...

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h303/cirrusvfr/Aviation/IMG_7551.jpg

[Flintstone]

There's always one isn't there? "You should have been here yesterday..........." ;)

Thanks for the photos Blink. Believe it or not I'd rather have been there than (in the rain) where I was.