A320 Automatic Start

[Flyman35]

1-what will happen if I initiated the Auto Start with one of the thrust levers or both advanced above idle.
2-At FL 340 while in cruise the pilot advanced the left thrust lever to the MCT nothing happens in the E/WD but when he returned it back and advanced the right lever to the MCT, I saw MCT on the E/WD why is that?

[PENKO]

1. Your engine will start automatically. You'll end up with more thrust than you might wish.
2. Why would 'the pilot' do such a thing? I don't have a good answer to this!

[Flyman35]

Why would 'the pilot' do such a thing? I don't have a good answer to thisI don't know actually by they told me try to figure out why!!??any way thanks for your help.

[doggonetired]

From the information given, it shouldn't happen, but it is an airbus and it wouldn't be the first time things don't happen as you'd expect. It must be almost impossible to test/check that every conceivable combination of actions and conditions behave as the manual suggests and don't forget that CFDS checks "passed" is not always the same as being physically airborne and moving levers or pushing buttons. I recently had a partial DMC failure which indicated DMC 2 faulty and on switching to DMC all indications were correct for that scenario however when the engineer did the CFDS check it reported DMC1 as faulty! How would that ever be checked? And now someone much cleverer than me will say that the CFDS would ask the operator to make sure something appears on a certain screen or not on another perhaps but this aircraft had been in service for at least 4 years!

[Airbus_a321]

penko, you are wrong. it will not start and you will not end up with more thrust than you wish

Why have you never tried it before. Afraid ? Don't worry. Rely in the technologie. Just try it in the airplane on your next engine start. No big deal at all.
Btw: you will receive an ECAM.

a lot in this nice aircraft is foolproof, so this, if "we pilot idiots" forget having thrust levers not in idle during engine start.

therefore e.g.
THRUST LEVER ...idle
is not mentioned on the BEFORE START checklist if you operate acc "less-paper/silent-cockpit". Its protected by the aircraft.

[PENKO]

From the FCTM.
The thrust levers must be confirmed at ”idle” before engine-start. If the thrust levers are
not at ”idle”, the thrust increases above idle after engine-start, and can result in a
hazardous situation.
However, an ENG START FAULT ECAM warning triggers, to indicate that the flight
crew must set the thrust levers to ”idle”.

I admit I have never tried it before, why should I have! But ok, assuming you are right and the engine won't start...what on earth is Airbus talking about then?

[Iceman49]

Has the software changed? When I was on the 319/320...we had 2 instances where during start and the thrust levers were not at idle... the thrust went to the thrust lever position...got off the 320 in 2003

[bflyer]

Hi

I agree with penko regarding the auto start with the thrust levers set above the idle position...the engines will start and thrust will increase to the level corresponding to the thrust lever position...our engines are IAE V2500-A5...did it by mistake but it is confirmed

regarding the second part of the question and i am talking about an A320-232 with IAE V2500-A5 engines
If both engines are operative and regardless of which thrust lever was set above CL position what you should have gotten was an 'LVR ASYM' lever asymmetry message until you return the thrust lever to he CL gate
From the 320 FCOM 1-22-30 P62 autothrust.....WHEN ONE THRUST LEVER IS IN THE CL DETEND AND THE OTHER ONE OUT OF THE DETENT. THE 'LVR ASYM' AMBER MESSAGE COMES UP UNTIL BOTH LEVERS ARE SET IN THE IN THE CL DETENT( ONLY WITH BOTH ENGINES OPERATIVE)..unquote
regards
bf

[TyroPicard]

2-At FL 340 while in cruise the pilot advanced the left thrust lever to the MCT nothing happens in the E/WD but when he returned it back and advanced the right lever to the MCT, I saw MCT on the E/WD why is that?

1. Because the left engine has failed.
2. Because the left T/L has a fault.

bflyer
The post is about the E/WD not the FMA...

[Permafrost_ATPL]

Tried it in a 320-CFM sim last night (didn't mean to lol) and got ECAM warning to retard the thrust levers to idle for the auto start. Looks like there's a difference between CFM and IAE in this case.

P

[PENKO]

Perma, did the engine actually start, or was the start automatically aborted whilst you received the ECAM caution?

[Iceman49]

We have CFM engines, and it happened on them also, in fact they ran into a tug with the thrust...can't remember how long ago. Also, why try something, if you know its contrary to good operating procedures...even if there are protections.

[cross bleed start]

Flyman, Thank you for reminding me one of my momories.:)
That momory made me have a habit of checking one more time the thrust levers are in idle just before starting engines.

Penco, you are right.:ok: We have CFM engines and FCOM 3 says as below

"BEFORE PUSHBACK AND START"
THRUST LEVERS-------IDLE
Caution
Engine will start, regardless of the thrust position; thrust will rapidly increase to the corresponding trust position, causing a hazardous situation, if thrust levers are not in IDLE position

I assume this means A320 can run into a towing truck if thrust levers are not in idle which happened in my previous company about 15 years ago, of course it was MD 82 not A320. What made this incident worse was the captain wasn't agree the thrust levers were not in idle := and it took sim check to make him agree that the thrust levers were not in idle, this made him resign. Also this is why I check one more time the thrust levers are in idle.

Penco, I have a A320 sim check few day later, and I will let you know the result if I manage to ask my instructor to try this, but I am not sure about if I can do it,:rolleyes: because 4 hrs are normally too short to do what we suppose to do in sim.

CBS

[TyroPicard]

If a T/L is above idle for start, both CFM and IAE give an ECAM caution:

ENG 1(2) START FAULT
- THR LEVER ..... IDLE

The engines will start, there is no auto-abort for this. When the FADEC has finished controlling the start cycle the engine will accelerate to the T/L setting.

[PENKO]

Thanks for clarifying this further guys! Crossbleed, let us know how your experiment went in the sim.

[Permafrost_ATPL]

Good to know. When I got the caution in the sim I had immediately moved the levers back and had thought FADEC only THEN got into start mode... Guess not!

P

[cross bleed start]

Today I finished my sim proficiency check
and did the experiment.

We had ECAM messages as below

ENG 1(2) START FAULT
THRUST LEVER NOT AT IDLE

THRUST LEVER----------IDLE

We disregarded thiis message, left the thrust above idle.
the engine continued start automatically until stabilized.
Then the ECAM message disappeared, the next monent
the thrust increased to the thrust position.

Conclusion: Always always check the thrust levers are at idle
when you start engines.

CBS

[PENKO]

That's clear then :ok:.

[Henry VIII]

1. Because the left engine has failed.
2. Because the left T/L has a fault.TyroPicard I agree. I don't see any other reasons either.