WDS versus ethernet over mains

[The late XV105]

My BT Home Hub (version 1) is located in my hallway, adjacent to master socket, and ideal for maximum strength signal in home office and high strength everywhere else in the house. Shortly however the pergola project in the garden will be undertaken and with it somewhere shady for the missus to take her laptop or even for me to take mine to work from if I so wish.

The fly in the ointment is that the pergola will be at the far end of the garden where Home Hub reception is weak and too unstable for reliable VPN.

I proved today however that my trusty old Netgear DG834G (version 1) when sited in the conservatory allows a full strength signal at the far end of the garden. Crucially, so-sited it also gives a high strength signal everywhere inside the house, so allowing seamless walking around if connected to this SSID.

Unfortunately the DG834Gv1 does not support WDS or any form of bridging so I cannot wirelessly link it to the Home Hub.

I therefore have a choice:

Put the DG834G back in the drawer and buy another wireless router that does support bridging (even a second version 1 Home Hub purchased via ebay or similar will do it according to http://212.159.96.35/hits/hhbridge.htm (http://212.159.96.35/hits/hhbridge.htm))
Buy a couple of ethernet-over-mains adapators (say 85Mbps) to connect Home Hub to DG834G (with DHCP switched off) in wired manner.Given that the Netgear signal is strong everywhere so having a wireless bridge is apparently irrelevant, my leaning is to the latter, probably with adaptors from Netgear (my usual supplier of choice from good experience) or Devolo (recommended by friends)

Advice from fellow PPRuNers?


Cheers,
XV105



[Edited for typo]
[Edited again to say I laughed after posting on seeing the advert below my post for a homeplug twin pack!]

[Saab Dastard]

I would go with the latter, or wired, solution (I assume that you have already rejected the idea of running a plain old RJ45 cable between the 2 devices).

Effectively connect the uplink port of the Netgear to one of the downlink switch ports of the BT hub.

You can also switch off the Netgear firewall (just leave the BT hub firewall running).

I have utilised a similar system with a Netgear wifi router downstream of my Linksys. I did this because the 2 x Nintendo DS devices don't support WPA, just WEP. So the Linksys connects WPA devices and the Netgear connects the WEP devices.

I have configured 2 separate IP networks; 192.168.0.0 for the Netgear network - the router itself is 192.168.0.1 "internal" and 192.168.10.101 "external", with its default gateway as 192.168.10.1 - and the Linksys network as 192.168.10.0, the router itself being 192.168.10.1.

I switched off the SSID on the Netgear and the routing is configured so that there is no route from the 192.168.0.0 network to the 192.168.10.0 network, just to the internet.

I think I had to configure a static route on the Netgear to allow devices to communicate across, but it was a while ago and I can't remember - and it's a pain to get into the Netgear now so I'm not going to check!

You might want to try the setup of the "cascaded" router with an RJ45 cable before splashing out on the mains adapters.

My suggestion would be to get it all working without encryption, then once you have proved that the routing is working correctly you can enable encryption. Consider using fixed IP addresses if you have only a small number of PCs connected - it's one less thing to go wrong, plus it is slightly more secure.

Also, remember that you need 5 channel spacing in the UK for non-overlapping wifi channels (e.g. 1, 6, 11) if you are operating both WAPs together. I have 2 routers side-by-side with no interference.

Of course, you may just decide to switch off the wifi part of the BT hub.

HTH

SD

[The late XV105]

Thanks, SD.
We both think the latter option is the way to go, so that's what I will do.

I didn't mention in the post but have previously taken advantage of the Netgear's superior wireless performance to connect it to the Home Hub via Ethernet with both devices being side-by-side. It was a doddle, with the Home Hub remaining the DHCP server as it will in the situation I describe, too. No need for static routes in my case.

I won't switch Home Hub wireless off this time though because I have a non-portable media server in home office that will benefit from the full strength signal. All portable wireless devices will use the Netgear (in the conservatory this time) since the signal is more than strong enough everywhere in the house and garden for such usage, though not full strength in the office.

Mains over Ethernet it is, probably Netgear jobbies.


Cheers!
XV105

[Jofm5]

In my experience the ethernet over mains will also give much better latency times than over wireless - so if latency (typically games) is of any importance then you will be better off without the wireless (and a little bit more secure).

[The late XV105]

Thanks, Jofm5.
Understood, and makes sense.

An update: Although Netgear are my usual home networking hardware provider of choice, on this occasion I have gone down another route: Solway 200Mb mains over ethernet adaptors are so cheap, and get consistently high reviews that I have purchased a pair to use in the manner described.

If they are as good as I anticipate I will buy another two, allowing me to connect the media server (running XP SP2 MCE 2005) in my home office with AV equipment in the living room. I tried before using wireless but even at 54Mb got regular picture breakup so I gave up on the idea. (Thankfully the Pinnacle Showcenter 2000 I used to contol the connection was borrowed, not purchased, but I will now need to do some research to see how the available products have moved on and then purchase something)

In turn, if I do this, I can then switch the home hub wireless circuit off (it would be surplus to requirements) and simply use the Netgear for wireless connection.

[Old Speckled Aircrew]

XV105 you mention Solway in your thread, but I think you mean Solwise. A well respected choice.

[Ancient Observer]

I do hope it worked. My DG834G, (V2) works very well with the Solwise gizmos. Only one word of warning - Solwise do not last forever. One day the internet connection died in our family room, and only after too much wasted time on diagnosing the problem did it dawn on me that the Solwise might have died.
Their UK tech help was v good, quick, responsive even, and even their accounting folk appeared to be human. Unlike, for instance, D(H)ell.

[The late XV105]

Thanks for the help and works of encouragement, All.

The adaptors arrived today... and weren't Solwise!
On checking my order I see that I'd been hasty and ordered "MaxValue" ones instead.

Well Max Value is No Value if they don't work, and one doesn't; it didn't even boot up, all LEDS - including for power - remaining resolutely out. The instructions are quaintly written and the build quality is on the brittle side so I have returned them for credit and done what I should have done in the first place; stuck by my Netgear preference and ordered their HDXB101 devices for twenty quid more (albeit from Dabs this time, not Amazon).

Sorry if Solwise unwittingly didn't get a look-in but at least I have confidence that the replacement jobbies will work.

Let's see.
I will post the outcome.

XV105

[Saab Dastard]

I know you have already ordered them, but they are 8 quid cheaper from ebuyer and 10 quid less from lambda-tek.

I have found both of these very good overall on price and service, including returns.

Worth considering for future requirements.

SD

[The late XV105]

I promised to post the outcome, so here it is.

With Netgear my network hardware manufacturer of choice, my guess was that the HDXB101 was what I should have purchased in the first place and I couldn't have been more correct.

No brittle cheapie-cheap plastic, no fiddly buttons (in fact none at all), no quaintly written instructions, and no defective devices on unpacking.

Plug, pause 30 seconds, and play, and if you are not worried unduly about security then that's all you need to do. I have however installed the configuration utility (which also automatically checks back to Netgear.com that the adapters have the latest firmware) and configured a different network name. This simple change automatically changes the encryption key which is a nice touch. The only other setup change that I made was to name each adaptor after the device that it connects to (so HomeHub and DG834G) simply so I know which is which when checking performance using the utility in future.

Because one of the MaxValue devices was broken I never got the opportunity to assess performance but the Netgear devices are great.

Advertised as up to 200 Mbps, the configuration utility shows that I am getting between 140 and 190 Mbps Tx and 118 and 170 Mbps Rx when on the same mains ring, the lower end of which still supports HD video data volumes and bodes well for when I link the media center PC in my office to the AV equipment in the lounge (same ring).

Although I do not envisage needing to do it (because per my original post I will now be able to optimally position the DG834G to wirelessly cover the entire house and garden) when running across rings (I have three for power sockets) I am getting between 100 and 128 Mbps Tx and 45 and 95 Mbps Rx; although the bottom end of these numbers is too low for HD video streaming it is still more than enough for normal data traffic should I ever need it; web browsing has no detectable performance difference whether wirelessly to Home Hub or DG834G (and then back to Home Hub via ethernet over mains) or ethernet to either device.

Add DAB's usually competitive pricing (even if not the cheapest, cheaper than Amazon this time) and same day dispatch and I am a very happy punter.

HDXB101s come highly recommended.

[The late XV105]

[Edited again to say I laughed after posting on seeing the advert below my post for a homeplug twin pack!]

Today, having posted about a Atheros WLAN driver, I got an Atheros advert in the same box. I am now sure this is no coincidence! :)