ATR vs 737

[Alltheway]

I'm contemplating a Job offer on an ATR (I'd pay for Type and Line) and wondered if this is a better option than simply paying for a 737 rating with no offer of Employment.

I know the ATR pay scales are slighlty less than those of 737 FO's.

Also, would anyone know if there's a conversion for ATR type to 737 or would it be a whole new Type rating again.

All comments greatly appreciated (Apart from decision to pay for own type. Yes I'm doing it regardless).

Good luck everyone.

[woofly31]

Is there recruitment for ATR crew at this time? Which company is taking crew, is it through Skyblue?:ok:

[Alltheway]

Its a Private offer through a Family connection sorry.

[FatFlyer]

Hi, there is no differences course from an ATR to a 737, it is a completely different rating. If you have decided to pay for a rating, I would go for one with a job at the end. Most companies would only consider you with just a 737 rating and no time on type if they were desperate, at this time the ATR sounds better if you have low hours and a job offer afterwards.

[hotelmodemetar]

ATR has nothing to do with B737, although the ATR cockpit looks like the same as a B737-300, but it's a different type rating, and the cockpit philosophy is similar to Airbus.


I know the ATR pay scales are slighlty less than those of 737 FO's.

not always ;)

[Alltheway]

@ FatFlyer

Many thanks for your quick and positive reply. The ATR post would be in Tanzania and the pay is around £30K.

I'm quite good at tracking down FO jobs - Air Slovakia has just finished recruiting 737 FO's (No min hours on type, just the rating).

I'd also be prepared to pay for hours on type with the like of EagleJet.

I did the MCC on a 737 and found the transition to Jets quite significant. Would you say an ATR would be easier to Fly? Contemplating a JOC course to really see if i'm cut out for Jets?

[Right Touch]

I used to fly the ATR ,and now fly the A320 Airbus Family.

On reflection the ATR is proberly easier in terms of descent managment , but its an argument that has been done to death here already.

Any competent turboprop pilot with a little bit of time on type will transition to a jet with no real problems , like most things it comes down to experience and familarity with the aircraft your operating.

They are just aircraft after all.

However imho the ATR was/ is more fun http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

[Alltheway]

Hi Right Touch,

What made the ATR more fun for you (IYHO).

Having problems finding decent ATR vs 737 thread.

[Alltheway]

Hotelmodemeter

Many TRTO have cheaper Type courses for pilots with Jet experience under JAR Reg's. I was asking if anyone had experience of this.

Also, current job's on offer are higher pay for 737's. I can obviously only reflect on the current situation.

[Right Touch]

Just a personal opinion mate.

In the ATR i felt you had a little bit more creative freedom so to speak

Once you get used to it , The ATR is just a big light aircraft.

With a jet you have to be more conservative.

The ATR is also a great aircraft for your first job and to learn your trade in.

If i were you and had a gauranteed job at the end of it i would certainly do the ATR TR.

You will also appreciate the Jet Job more when you get it.

Cheers

[hotelmodemetar]

cmvidini,

The ATR is a great aircraft to fly, quite tricky to land, you don´t have the stupid voice to remind you to "retard, retard, retard" :bored:, you don't have the ground spoilers to keep the aircraft on the ground after the touchdown to avoid bounces :), you don´t have the autothrottles.... But you'll have 2 power levers and 2 condition levers to play with :D
You'll do generally lots of handflying and short field performance, you'll learn for real what flying in icing conditions means.. in level 2 :ooh: ...and in level 3 :ooh:
If you like sports, then an engine flame out after take off is for you! :O :ok:

Excellent fuel consumption, which means a bright future with this aircraft.

As for the salary, it depends on the company....;)

good luck for your choice :cool:

[Alltheway]

Hotelmodometer,

Thanks for the reply. Does the ATR not have De-Ice? I'm still to look into systems.

For the same price I could do the 737 Type and then potentially pay for 300 on type. Which would you recommend for the highest chance of employment?

I appreciate you don't have a crystal ball but if the market is flodded with 737 Pilots thenmaybe the ATR is the way to go?

Comments greatly appreciated?

[Right Touch]

Cmvidini

I would rate your chances for getting a job to be marginally higher on the ATR , you did mention that you had a job lined up on it ????

your chances of a job on the 737 even with 300 hrs on type are next to zero at this moment in time.

The latest log magazine from BALPA which came through my door this week had an interesting article regards the present state of the employment market.

It said that 48% of XL's pilots were still unemployed 6 months after the airlines failure , bear in mind the majority of these guys were 737 rated with a couple of thousand hours on type.

And thats an example of just one airline , countless other 737 operators in Europe and further afield have also gone the way of XL in the last 6 months

This is the competition your up against. Its unlikely that 300 hrs will cut the mustard.

Your ATR job in Africa would be akin to a lottery jackpot win under the present circumstances.

[James D]

http://static.pprune.org/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 20th April 2009, 22:41 #15 (http://www.pprune.org/4874651-post15.html) (permalink (http://www.pprune.org/african-aviation/358783-aviation-trading.html#post4874651)) cmvidini (http://www.pprune.org/members/63167-cmvidini)

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Cardiff
Age: 34
Posts: 61


ARC Trading
Hi,

I'm considering going for the ATR Type and Line Training with ARC. May I ask what you decided and your experience with them please.

Would you recommend?
Last edited by cmvidini : 20th April 2009 at 22:58.
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http://www.pprune.org/african-aviation/358783-aviation-trading.html#post4874651

Its a Private offer through a Family connection sorry.

You have a family connection with these guys??

[hotelmodemetar]

cmvidini, yes the ATR is a very efficient aircraft to fly in Icing Conditions, and from ground to FL250 you will actually often fly in those conditions :ok:

Finding a job depends on many factors, some people struggle to find a job even with an ATR type rating, some others manage to get their first job on the B767 with no hours, no experience. :suspect:
You'll need to be at the right time and at the right place. I dont know which ATR or Boeing operator is currently recruiting. You'd better be at least 95% sure you'll get a job before going for a type rating, especially during this economic crisis, because after 6 months without flying on type you won't interest many employers, and after 12 months you'll need to do an LPC (3000 euros I guess :( )


Enjoy that vid:
Dailymotion - L'ATR42 au meeting Air Expo 2007 de Muret - a Evenements video (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1z2mk_latr42-au-meeting-air-expo-2007-de_events)

[A Very Civil Pilot]

CMV, consider your options again if it wasn't aviation related:

I can pay for the training (to become an accountant, say), and have a job offer on completion; or I can pay for the training to become a slightly different type of accountant, in a market where lots of slightly different types of accountants are out of work, with no job offer at the end if it.

Good luck in your decision making.

[Rugbyears]

Yes James D, I also find this pretty inappropriate - Mods kindly remove this thread!:)

[PENKO]

I think you should research your situation a bit better cmvidini. Don't get me wrong, we've all been there, but if you need to ask if there is a conversion between ATR and 737, well, that tells me that you don't yet fully understand the field you are playing in.

Having said that, all things being equal, the only risk in paying for the ATR-job is that later on you might have to pay again for a jet type. But at least you have a job. If you pay for a 737 type, you still have to find that job in a very bad market...which is the greater risk for you? You mention the salary difference, but that is totally irrelevant IMHO! Can you really afford letting a firm (??) job offer slip away?

Again, having said that... are you very sure about this 'job offer' through a family connection? One thing that strikes me is: Why should you pay for linetraining if there is a job there for you anyway? Not that it doesn't happen, but it should raise some quesion marks. Also, this world is full of charlatans who will promise you anything. Have you got any guarantees on paper?

Stay sceptical all the way, and please, do some basic (again, no offence) research!

[INNflight]

anyone know if there's a conversion for ATR type to 737 or would it be a whole new Type rating again.


:bored:

Does the ATR not have De-Ice?

Anti-ice....not de-ice. Anti-ice you can switch on, de-ice is what you get when your wings are covered up in that slushy snowy crap.


No offense......but...... you sure you are a fATPL holder?


-----
edit: Just for your consideration (apart from the fact that people would hunt you down and feather you as you have no problem to pay for line training)....

ANY job in the current climate should be taken on immediately. It's not about the shiny big jet these days, it's about flying, no matter what! :*

[James D]

Very sad. I've actually met this guy along the way, he was turned down by a number of the ab-initio schools at the selction phase. Last i heard he headed off to OFT in Florida as a last resort. I'm not in the slightest bit surprised to see he is still throwing money at it.

[Alltheway]

James D, I really don't know who you think you are. I chose my Flight School as the Modular route saved me over £25K. There was no last resort, I was offered a place on an Integrated course with the CAA approved Integrated School in Australia. Fact is I hold JAA CPL ME IR with fATPL. If you read my original post I did say I'm not interested in peoples view's on paying for a Type rating. I know many who have done the same and this is by no means a reflection on their abilities but more a reflection of the times . Maybe you should concentrate on finding yourself Employment instead of outlandish view's.

To everyone with intelligent view's, The Employment offer is based on me completing 300 hour's first. The contract includes minimum hours for both line and duty.

Regarding the 737 Type Rating, I know the CAA have reduced hour requirements for Pilots with Airline Hour's and my question was if anyone had info on TRTO's offering lower hour ratings.

[Alltheway]

James D,

On a final note, it was just the one School I was not accepted with. Everyone has an off day. Please get your facts straight.

[Abagnale]

2 cmvidini:

Does the company guarantee you a job in the end or it's just self-sponsored type+line training?Don't be stupid to get into pay to fly trap,mate.:bored:

[Mikehotel152]

would anyone know if there's a conversion for ATR type to 737 or would it be a whole new Type rating again.

Aren't ATRs turbo-props?

Is this thread taking the proverbial wee-wee? :confused:

[Right Touch]

CMvidini im not quite sure what your getting at here.

When you embark on a 737 TR ,previous experience on other aircraft or "Airline hours" does not come into it , there is "no reduction of hours"

You do what is required of the training syllabus of the TRTO or Airline who is providing the training for the specific aircraft that you are being trained on.

There is no cutting of corners with the hours requirements and rightly so.

The only reduction in hours would be if you were transitioning on the same family of aircraft , ie A320 to A340 or 737 Classic to 737NG, only then would you do an abbreivated or abridged course.

Hope this helps

[INNflight]

cmvidini,

No offense mate, but you seem too focused on that shiny 737.

Fact is I hold JAA CPL ME IR with fATPL.

I am sorry I questioned that in my earlier post, it's just that it doesn't show in the way you write about things here.

If you want, read this multiple times (I'll make it easier for you):

IF YOU ARE OFFERED A JOB THESE DAYS, *#&%#? TAKE IT!!!

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IF YOU ARE OFFERED A JOB THESE DAYS, *#&%#? TAKE IT!!!

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IF YOU ARE OFFERED A JOB THESE DAYS, *#&%#? TAKE IT!!!


:ok: