If it looks right, it'll fly right.

[GPMG]

Reading the thread regarding sounds that will be missed and noting that most are sounds of older aeroplanes. I started wondering if we were now in an aural and visual desert as far as military aeroplane design goes.

Looking back over the brief history of aviation, it does seem that the golden age of aeroplane design stretched a mere 30-40 years from the early 30's to the late 60's.

Unfortunately modern aeroplanes are designed by computer programmes and wind tunnel's. No longer does the graceful flick of the draughtsman's pencil add the right touch to a wing tip or a rudders sweeping curve.
Likewise engine development has meant that even aircraft that are designed to be prop driven, now end up with a soulless turboprop.

So with the advent of UAV's and generic designs being turned out by CAD design and wind tunnels etc.... Have we seen the peak of stunning military aeroplanes? Will the Spitfire and Hunter remain the most beautiful and graceful examples of their type? Will the Phantom and FW-190 remain as the most brutal yet stunning looking fighters of their times? And will the Hawker Fury remain the prettiest fighter ever made?

Even the new Typhoon cannot be said to be special and the future F-35 is just pig ugly.
I realise that there are many reasons for each and every line and edge on a modern design but I think it is a shame that none of the aircraft of the past few years will be hailed as classics of design in years to come.

I realise that this is not an important topic, more of a Friday discussion perhaps.

[1.3VStall]

If it looks right it flies right? Hawker Hunter: QED!

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

even aircraft that are designed to be prop driven, now end up with a soulless turboprop.


Ah, but who doesn't become misty eyed at the sound of a RR Dart? Oh; 1950s. Bugger!

[dat581]

Well the F-35 is not the best looking aircraft to grace the skies but it's hardly pig ugly. Imangine if Boeing had won the contract with the X-32. That is a strange and ugly looking aircraft.

[Double Zero]

Dat581,

Couldn't agree more re. the X-32, one would be embarassed to be anywhere near it.

'If it looks right it flies right' - anyone hearing that phrase will instantly think ' Hunter '.

I work at a museum where there's one, and even people completely unassociated with aircraft stop and say " that is beautiful ! "...

Shame it was a cow to work on, but I have to say the most graceful ( rather than power-impressive ) display of flying I'm ever likely to see was a FRADU bloke over the Somerset levels.

He was just enjoying himself taking up the sky, and I may well have been the only aircraft type to see it - a treat unlikely to come again.

For a grin and the sound of a Merlin, try a well known site called something beginning with ' You ', dial in 'Low Spitfire Pass' and turn up the volume, as long as there are no ladies present !

[Jig Peter]

:)
For prop-nostalgics, the sound of Tynes pulling a Transall through the air at low level is a welcome growl - but you have to live near the Pyrenees to hear it (which is alright too) ...

[Tankertrashnav]

1.3V stall you are so right - but not only did the Hunter look right but sounded right too. The noise it made doing a low level pass at say 300 knots was unmistakeable and unforgettable.

[Double Zero]

Wasn't the 'Blue Note' used in many films, and Thunderbirds on TV, as the sound everyone would wish a high speed aircraft to make ?

[Tiger_mate]

...or perhaps we will think: Sir Sydney Camm (of Hawker aircraft IIRC) who actually said this.

Concorde: The most elegant piece of metalwork to ever grace the skies.

[Tankertrashnav]

Oh dear Tiger Mate why did you have to mention Concorde? You are so right, what an inspiring sight, but you've got us all depressed now!

[Runaway Gun]

And I thought this thread was about some of the girls at Cranwell UAS...

[India69]

Hawker Hind ,Hawker Hart ? ; from when the job was a private flying club !

[Albert Driver]

Oh, look!


....... another VC10 thread :ok:

[GPMG]

Looking at another thread with a few lovely pic's on it. The F-15 and thinking about it the Sukhoi SU27 are probably the last of the few 'right' looking military aircraft developed.

Any others?

[L J R]

Fastest thing in North Vietnam - A Thud Heading South!

[PICKS135]

If you insist Albert:ok::O

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/f4phixeruk/DSCF0026.jpg

[jungle drums]

http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/imgs/mosquito_3.jpg

[goudie]

If it looks right, it'll fly right.


Surely the Blackburn Beverly disproves this theory.

[Mad (Flt) Scientist]

Surely the Blackburn anything-except-a-Buccaneer disproves this theory.
Fixed your typo
;)

[Griz]

The Buccaneer?? Are you serious? Since when was fruit designed to fly?

[cazatou]

The comment of a USAF Pilot on seeing the Blackburn Beverley for the first time :-

"Well, I've figured out which way it flies - but how the **** do you get that undercarriage up?"

[barnstormer1968]

I would like to think that the Hunter, Spitfire and all the other types mentioned above are all good examples of this theory.
Yet, other aircraft seem to disprove it, such as Shorts Belfast and Fokker triplane (yes I did mention the Belsow, as I think it looked like a winner).

One aircraft I would like others opinions on is the B1 in any of it's forms. I think it looks sleek, and to me looks like it should be in a similar speed range to Concorde. Is this so, as it constantly seems to have been left in the side lines during it's career, even after being revived.

[1.3VStall]

Cazatou,

The story I heard about the Bev's first visit to a USAF base was the crew chief saying to the captain as he climbd out "What in the world is that, sir?" "That, sir, is a Blackburn Beverley!"

"Uh, huh - make it yourself?"

[wub]

I remember reading that when the project pilot for the Northrop Tacit Blue programme Northrop Tacit Blue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Tacit_Blue) first saw the aircraft, he asked if it was still in its crate!

[FrustratedFormerFlie]

Sorry, grew up in Belfast during Belfast development and can't resist comment. Plan A was a swept wing jet, cut back to a British Fat Albert (with a 'strategic' moniker, but iot would have got there by a week next Tuesday) by civil servants.

Hmm. A swept wing strategic transport jet? Nah, that idea would never have worked, otherwise somebody like the Yanks would have picked it up - wouldn't they?

Aw ****e, they did!

[Nick10]

MiG-15?

flew very nicely. looked like a busted beer keg.

[Old Photo.Fanatic]

I know we all our favourite UK produced aircraft , but I also think some Post War US Operational types deserve a mention, in terms of Symmetry/design and "Looks right"
Just to name a few of my favourites

Convair F106 Delta Dart ,
Convair B58 Hustler
Boeing B47 Stratojet
Douglas F4D-1 Skyray
Grumman F9F-5 Panther/ F9F-9 Couger
McDonnel F4 Phantom
Lockheed F104 Starfighter, in original "Budlite" silver

[BentStick]

OPF, with the possible exception of the Grumman iron works products, I believe your favourites all have at least one important 'look right, fly right' element in common - area ruling. Anyone care to nominate why and when it become unfashionable? :confused:

My favourite modern effort;

Northrop YF-23 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_YF-23)

[Mad (Flt) Scientist]

area ruling. Anyone care to nominate why and when it become unfashionable? :confused:

A combination of:

Plenty of excess thrust so the supersonic drag isn't such an issue
and
better design capability lets you "area rule" (i.e design for transonic drag) without having to look like a flying barbie doll
and
less emphasis on raw straightline speed anyway

perhaps?

[West Coast]

Old Photo
An excellent list, if I may one more. The A-5 Viggie.

A-5 Vigilante - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-5_Vigilante)

[KiloB]

I had an almost identical list to OPF, but his inclusion of the F4 raised my eyebrows! Surely happy memories rather than good looks.

Can I add the Mirage 111 as another non-brit 'looker'.

KB

[GPMG]

I'd say that the F-4 was more 'menacing' than good looking, like the original Typhoon, FW-190, F4-U Corsair, SAAB Viggen.

[Jig Peter]

In the early days of the Victor's entry into service, a USAF Colonel (?) was reported to have said, after visiting the factory at Radlett: "Nice looking airplane, but why d'ja have to build it in a hobby shop?" T'was also said that Sir Fred was not amused ...
But then, if you're only building 50 or so, why not use ordinary scaffolding instead of the massive jigs which make high-rate production of much larger numbers possible ... and it would "do" for the similar number of B.2s to follow ...
:bored:

The sound of those four Sapphires' intake resonance at idle was a "sound to remember", though ...
:ok:

[1.3VStall]

How can anyone seriously include the F-4 Phantom in the "if it looks right, it'll fly right" debate. It was merely a triumph of thrust over aerodynamics!

[Lightning Mate]

Why has nobody mentioned the Lightning?
(no, not the P38).

[TyroPicard]

Don't worry, somebody has.

[Brain Potter]

I believe a senior RN type said when he saw the F-4:

"They've delivered it upside-down".

Looks right/flies right is often true, but there is probably something in the reverse idea that if we know something performs well then it's form starts to take on a beauty all of it's own. F-4 and Buccaneer probably fall into this category. If they were rubbish, they'd have been ugly too.

[Old Photo.Fanatic]

Totally agree with you BP,
The inclusion of the F4 Phantom in my earlier list is a personal
choice.
I think over time it took on a beauty of its own.
From my standpoint as a Semi Pro. Aviation Photographer I have seen
countless F4s.
It has extra appeal to me in the earlier Operational Colour Schemes,
especially USN And US Marine Squadron markings.
Not forgetting some of the "Special/Anniversary paint jobs.
All adding up to a growing appreciation over time.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[Jig Peter]

Well, what about the Canberra (before the odd job they did to make the B.8)? Clean, businesslike and very sleek ... and for "sleeker" there's the B-57 US-built variant.
Another business-like machine I find very attractive is the Sukhoi SU-24(?) Frogfoot, which again is in the unglamorous "mud-plugging" game.
Talking of mudpluggers, there's the fantastic Hawker Tempest whose mighty Sabre I used to hear when on Armament Practice camp at Sylt in 2 TAF. The mainly Polish target tug pilots used to demonstarte whenever they could that it would beat any jet fighter of the day up to 15,000 feet ...

[barnstormer1968]

I can't agree with you that the Belfast was just a UK fat albert, especially as it really did look much more like the C133, which was similar in role and a comtempory.
But then I did also state I thought it went against the rule, and theat it LOOKED right rather than flew right

[Jimmy Macintosh]

Over time a lot of aircraft become good looking, I've noticed a lot of comments on the ugliness of the Dave. After working on it for 3 years it's grown on me...still not the best looking but it does have good lines.

DH Mosquito still has it for me.

By the way I thought the Bucanneer just had a switch that turned the undercarriage invisible. It never flew, just drove around at high speed.

[BentStick]

Another “look right” element is application. The A-6 looked like a steroidal tadpole sitting on the ramp, but took on a different aura altogether when you saw it inverted, pulling onto a ground target fully loaded, shrouded in ecto and pumping flares.

[Jig Peter]

Why it took so long to come to mind I don't (or prefer not to) know, but de Havilland's Hornet still seems the handsomest aeroplane practically ever, while the Vampire 5 still touches the heartstrings - and don't anybody call it a "Kiddicar", specially brutes who thought the Meteor 4 was good-looking. But the Meteor 8 was pretty smooth, I'll admit, and a lot of fun to do a refresher course on at Manby in the early 60s. (Bright early mornings, Autumn cornfield after harvest, sound of pheasants ... over to the flight line, and away we go ... It was good, good, good to be back in a cockpit after a heavy ground tour behind the Wall ...)
:O

[TheChitterneFlyer]

Having spent some time at Boscombe Down (and about to return as a 'civvy' for the second time), the Hunter TPs loved breaking into the circuit at the 'Blue-Note' speed (was it the F6?). I still live within two miles of Boscombe and I cannot help but notice a 'new sound on the block'... the Tornado now regularly breaks into the circuit with an equally haunting note! I'm not complaining... I just wondered how it was discovered? New/modified gun pack perhaps? I don't know... but it sounds... YEAH!

TCF

[Yeoman_dai]

It's been mentioned, but the epitome of this must be the Spitfire.

Regularly said as the most beutiful aircraft ever

All old Pilots wax lyrical about how it became an extension of their limbs

Sounded like nothing on earth since, that makes anyone, even non aircraft lovers smile in a way jets dont

In its day it was one of the best fighters out there.

[LeCrazyFrog]

The late Marcel Dassault used to say that very same thing : "Si c'est beau, ça vole bien" and as a matter of fact Mirage III, Mirage 2000 and Rafale are pretty damn beautiful planes...

[GPMG]

I have just found this which has surprised me. Not a patch on either the Mossie or the Hornet.

http://essmc.org.au/What%20new/january2009/UNI7289.jpg

This must have been designed after R.J Mitchell sadly passed away.

[Argonautical]

I am surprised that no one has mentioned the Mirage F1 yet, a real classy looking fighter.