Heathrow Infringement

[camlobe]

My hand is up. It was me. I got it wrong. Damn.

At about 1420 local today, I managed to do the unthinkable. I went where I was not supposed to go.

Inbound to Blackbushe, travelling Eastwards just to the South of the Reading windfarm following a request for us to join from the North East (we were coming from the North West). Turn right and start descending from 3000 ft to join overhead for left hand 25. Downwind, Finals, land with sporting crosswind, bit of a float, then down and offered backtrack. While parking up, the tower ask us to pay a visit.

Quick discussion about the request, we decide it may be to do with the guy going reciprical when we were approaching the field.

Nope. Nothing so trivial.

Heathrow had contacted Blackbushe to advise that there had just been an infringement. By me.

Quick check of the 1/2 mil, and sure enough, it looks like I infringed, still at 3000 and descending towards the field. The brown lettering clearly shows LTMA (A) 2500.

The pit-of-your-stomach feeling. Oh, horlicks. I have infringed. And Heathrow to boot. Damn. Better post my lowly and now probably worthless PPL back to Gatwick.

The gentleman in the tower tried extremely hard to try and find me a number to call Heathrow ATC and allow me to grovel and commit hari kiri. Unfortunately, he couldn't find me a number.

Does anyone here have a contact number for me to avail myself in a prone fashion? 'Heathrow Director' maybe?

Your help appreciated.

camlobe

[whowhenwhy]

He couldn't have tried that hard, all he had to do was ring FBO and ask them. Weren't you getting a service fron London LARS, whose job it is to stop infringements??:E

[vanHorck]

Many moons ago the same happened to me, on a "test" flight to check out a GPS. We were too busy checking the thing out and flew right into the Luton Zone....

After I heard the controller call up a 737 about unknown traffic I woke up and checked and it was me...... So I volunteered my information and was told to call the controller on landing. I got an almighty outburst over the phone, I felt as tiny as never before and hated myself....

After that nothing happened, but I never forgot. It s a lesson, thats all, one you'll never forget.

Fly safe!

[Talkdownman]

<<request for us to join from the North East>>

I do NOT believe for one moment that a Blackbushe FISO requested that camlobe do that.

[Duchess_Driver]

http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/aip/current/ad/EGLL/EG_AD_2_EGLL_en.pdf

Will help, at least someone there will know who you need to grovel to. Didn't take long to find.

[nannodnai]

Most PPL's will "infringe" from time to time, either laterally or vertically, albeit mostly inadvertently !

A few weeks ago I was flying down the "Low Level Route" between Manchester and Liverpool zones, squawking 7366 mode Charlie and listening on 118.57. Inbound traffic to Manchester was landing on 05R, so final approach was relatively close to the LLR. Near Northwich I heard a female voice saying: "Aircraft in the LLR, southbound near Northwich, squawking 7366, please identify yourself".

"Oh sh*t, that's me" and replied with the call sign. Her radar was showing us as about 120 feet above the LLR limit of 1250' QNH ! We descended very rapidly, apologised profusely, and heard no more about it ! Just a simple case of enjoying the view and not paying enough attention to detail !

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Hmmm.. are you sure it was not the Control Zone you infringed? OK, at 3000 ft you would have infringed the TMA but unless you had a transponer on with altitude readout ATC would have paid little attention to you that far west. If they did not know your altitude they would assume that you were below controlled airspace and would not be bound to take avoiding action with other traffic. Heathrow has been on easterlies of late and they usually go down to 4000 ft that far out, but they can go to 3000 ft so it's not a safe place to be!

What gets ATC concerned is infringement of the CTZ because that airspace is from ground level and anything "unknown" in that airspace causes major problems and they have to take avoiding action with their traffic.

As mentioned already, who were you talking to? If you fly that close to controlled airspace it would be advisable to be talking to a radar unit.

[Warped Factor]

Despite what HD said what really gets ATC concerned and is also NATS' biggest safety risk is vertical infringements by non-transponding or no Mode C traffic so having a transponder on with Mode C is the best thing that anyone can do to mitigate against the effects of an inadvertent infringement of controlled airspace. It ensure all the electronic safety nets, air and ground, are given the best chance of working to maximum effect.

3,000ft in the 2,500ft bit to the west of the zone is an issue, especially so if LHR are on easterlies. The rules say that if we know someone is infringing we have to take 5nm lateral and/or 5,000ft vertical separation from the unknown traffic. In the area described a 3,000ft infringement will disrupt LHR inbound traffic on easterlies... you don't know what runway was in use at LHR at the time?

[camlobe]

Have just spoken to EGLL ATC (thanks Duchess Driver for the link). Ended up chatting to the gent who was the Departure Director at the time of my infringement.

Although I thought my apology and explaination sounded rather feeble to me (including the statement that I had taken into account this particular piece of LTMA class A airspace when flight planning, and then proceeded to forget it as we got near), the DD accepted what I said and didn't belittle me at all. Thank you for your understanding in this matter. He did advise me that I had affected matters, though not too seriously. (Gulp)

I extended my apologies to all for my poor airmanship, and ILAFFT (I Learned About Flying From That).

Talkdown stated
I do NOT believe for one moment that a Blackbushe FISO requested that camlobe do that.

No need to be a disbeliever, Talkdown. I was advised at the time it was for noise abatement. The two other pilots on board heard the same as well, and being 'socially responsible', I gladly complied. Problem was, I concentrated on the request and forgot my basic airmanship. Hence my reference above to ILAFFT.

For interest, the trip was navigated using chart, VOR's, ADF and Mk 1 eyeball, not GPS. I doubt if GPS would have made any difference as I was flying 'eyes out of the office' for the last few miles, visual with Blackbushe, and watching other traffic.

camlobe

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<Despite what HD said what really gets ATC concerned and is also NATS' biggest safety risk is vertical infringements by non-transponding or no Mode C traffic >>

Sorry if I did not make myself clear but Warped Factor knows that non-squawking traffic goes up and down through WOD quite often without ATC taking action as it is assumed to be below CAS. However, if one of those aircraft suddenly enters the London Control Zone then ATC is bound to attempt to provide separation from known traffic.

[Talkdownman]

camlobe,
When you did your pre-flight planning by reading the UK IAIP EGLK AD 2.21 you would have read
Remain well clear of the village of Yateley to the northeast of the aerodrome
and planned your flight accordingly.........

[AC-DC]

Talkdown
It is always easy to shoot someone else when you sit next to your desk. Haven't you ever made a mistake?

[ExSp33db1rd]

camlobe - I recently departed a non-towered airfield, but mandatory broadcast nonetheless. Selected the common frequency, advised taxying, heard, and saw, no traffic, so adv. line up and hold, completed checks, adv. rolling, adv. leaving the area. Very quiet, I thought. Upon selecting the next frequency .... oops ! done the whole thing on the wrong frequency. That's with 20,000 hours plus ( of course I usually had a co-pilot to handle the radio ! ) We all make mistakes, the trick is to learn from them.

[Warped Factor]

HD, you miss my point and you may be out of touch with current NATS safety concerns. Your original comment was...

What gets ATC concerned is infringement of the CTZ because that airspace is from ground level and anything "unknown" in that airspace causes major problems and they have to take avoiding action with their traffic.

Primary only traffic in a CTZ, it must be infringing therefore avoiding action will be taken (assuming it is seen, some aren't for varying reasons). But, it is known that it must be infringing because the airspace obviously starts at ground level ergo although of concern it is not as great a concern as...

Sorry if I did not make myself clear but Warped Factor knows that non-squawking traffic goes up and down through WOD quite often without ATC taking action as it is assumed to be below CAS.

That is the major concern! Primary only traffic, or traffic with no Mode C, that is as you say assumed to be below a base of CAS but in reality isn't. ATC will take traffic directly over the top of such returns in the assumption the traffic is below the base. Unfortunately it all too often isn't and there have been some very narrow escapes from worst case scenario which, of course, we've only found out about too late.

It's the one you don't know about that will get you, and that will almost certainly be a primary only, or no Mode C, vertical infringement taking out something much bigger inside CAS because no-one will know it is where it shouldn't be so no chance of electronic or human intervention to save the day. The best chance of avoiding that is to use Mode A and C or S at all times, mandated if necessary.

There have been enough close shaves of late that luck is surely running out.

[englishal]

Someone on here (of Flyer?) kindly posted a link to a PDF document which contained the whole of the UK airspace with no other terrain or cluttering detail (other than towns).

In the plane I carry a laminated version of this for the South and around London (if I go oop North, I'll make a new one ;)) . It is very very clear from this the airspace limits (rule of thumb around London < 2500 and you're ok Class A wise while outside the CTZ - Don't forget the D though !!!!!), and is handy as a cross reference.

Making mistakes is ok, but really this was a basic mistake, espcecially with 3 pilots onboard. If I fly with someone or they fly with me I'll look at the map too and cross check where we are, and the airspace just to be sure.....On my map, I also mark "BELOW 2500" in big chinagraph when the TMA drops, as an aid in case I forget....

[Warped Factor]

englishal, are you thinking of this map? (http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/aip/current/enr/EG_ENR_6_1_4_1_en.pdf)

It's CAS from SFC-FL195 with no other clutter at all, not even towns! For anyone on a slow connection it's a 5MB download.

Some other charts that may be of interest are to be found in the AIP at ENR 6.1

[scooter boy]

Hi Camlobe, well done for being honest but don't beat yourself up about this too much.
A similar occurence happened to me as I flew back from Biggin Hill to Plymouth on Wednesday.
Biggin were using 03 and I turned left direct to OCK 1 mile after departure. I was at 2000ft and had the A/P engaged taking me to OCK direct. The air was pretty bumpy and the frequency was busy. Apparently I got close enough to the far Southeastern corner of Heathrow zone for Farnborough radar to ask me to turn South - I complied.
In busy airspace (the world and his wife were flying/gliding/helicoptering) it is easy to become preoccupied with looking outside for traffic avoidance.
We are all human and even the "perfect pilots" so intent on belittling those who fess up on the forum make mistakes from time to time.
You did the right thing talking to Heathrow and it sounds as though your apology was received graciously. Hopefully that will be the end of the matter for all concerned.

SB

[englishal]

Yep, that is the one...

[vanHorck]

For once a thread on a mishap (which ended up well) without half the flying population screaming to await the outcome of the official investigation! What a relief....

[g0lfer]

Well done for starting this thread, perhaps it should be made into a sticky for confessional purposes by us all. After all I think that is how we all learn to be better pilots. I for one make mistakes on many flights but thankfully most are insignificant. Anyone who criticises you for coming clean like this is quite simply a waste of space in my opinion!

[Barcli]

Camlobe - purely out of interest were you in a Cirrus ? Had one go over the top of me when departing LHR at around that time and i dont usually see that !!!