ANOTHER shocking example of Rip-Off GB

[Duchess_Driver]

PA28

1 vectored ILS to land, vacate taxy via to H to park. Bus to BFC. Special Branch not interersted. Pay. Bus to a/c. taxy via H for an intersection departure. (Clues as to whereabouts!) Didn't even use the same bit of runway twice!

On the ground NO MORE than 15 minutes.

£150.00 - Yep One Hundred and Fifty Pounds.:=:=


PA28

1 vectored ILS to land, vacate taxy to LAP. Bus to terminal. Overnight. Collect from departure gate, bus to Ops office, Pay, bus to LAP. Taxy via D2 for a 24 departure.

Lots of interaction with Shannon Ground, Tower and Approach, lots of effort made on our behalf (very grateful!) to change plans at last minute. :ok::ok:

On the ground 18 hours.

49 Euro. Yep, Forty Nine Euro.

[Whopity]

Just imagine if you had gone there to do a FI reval with the resident CAA examiner, the landings would have cost more than the test! Rather puts local schools at a financial advantage!

[greenno]

Europe Need learnts more about aviation fees from FAA rules.

From Spain AIP

ROUTE AND TERMINAL CHARGES http://www.aena.es/csee/ccurl/LE_GEN_4_2_en.pdf

Regards

[Neptunus Rex]

Admittedly a few years ago, 1998 or so. Flying a Piper Saratoga from Rotorua to Ardmore (GA Airfield near Auckland) under VFR only to find Ardmore suddenly socked in. Heaps of fuel on board, so could easily have returned to Rotorua where it was 8/8 blue. Before I could ask, the Auckland controller offered me a diversion to Auckland International, which I gratefully accepted. Radar vectors to final, landed, taxied in and shut down. Saratoga parked there overnight and recovered to Ardmore the next morning. Total fees from Auckland International - Thirty Kiwi Dollars. Beat that for service.

Neppie
:ok:

[will fly for food 06]

Most weather diversions are free in the Uk.

[chrisbl]

Only because they were shamed into doing it.

[Flyluke]

On that point, Biggin-Hill's new idea appears to be that unless the weather conditions are below certain minima, they will charge £50 + VAT for an instrument approach.
I understand them wanting to discourage training approaches getting in the way of priority inbound IFR traffic, but it where the a/c I fly is based, and there are weather conditions when I would wish to shoot a vectored ILS rather than grope about in 'VMC'.
I am only an amateur, but INHO their approach does nothing for improving safety, apart from being a ripoff.

['Chuffer' Dandridge]

Flying is no different to most things in Socialist Britain...If people can get away with it, then they will make as much money as they can, with no shame at all... Flying has always been expensive, and people pay it because its the thing to do, or there's no alternative.

I give you as a small selection:


Politicians - Noses in trough most of the year. Second home allowance, Attendance allowance etc etc. Pi$$takers all of them.
Red roses - Negligable cost most of the year, Valentines day - £7 EACH
Fuel - Very quick to rise in price, very SLOW to come down again...
Council tax - Increases every year, services decrease every year.


If Landing fees are too high for you in the UK, vote with your feet and go elsewhere. In the last year, I havent paid more than £15 for the privelage of landing anywhere in the UK because I chose where I go based on the quality of the bacon sandwich and the cost of the landing fee. Which means I tend to go to the nicer places....

[VFE]

I think profit is the tidy sideline here - the main aim from such high fees is clearly to discourage GA traffic.

VFE.

[Mickey Kaye]

I can understand LHR, LGW, MAN charging a fortune to discourage GA as their priorites lie elsewhere.

Its the wannabe regional airports that get my goat. They never appear to be busy, they insist on PPR, charge a fortune to land, charge you for a go around, insist on a handling agent and a bus to drive you across the empty apron.

[VFE]

The regionals are all geared up for expansion and an increase in traffic but the global recession is altering that outlook very fast so the more financially astute businesses out there are altering their gameplans quite drastically.

The "low co's, no-show's" are struggling and the reported thriving regional airports are becoming quieter. I doubt policy on GA traffic will change at these places because they're in business for the long haul (pun intended) and like our prime minister they all believe the boom recovery period is a-coming but sadly, for the foreseeable future, things are going to be very bleak..... but that's another topic entirely.

VFE.

[tropicalfridge]

There should be some regulation of this kind of thing bringing standard fees for services at all airports scaled for size and facilities. Did you know the costs before you went there?

[Duchess_Driver]

Went about 5 or six years ago and got 'stung' for £50. Expected that to have go up a bit but not that much!

[scooter boy]

Duchess Driver,
I diverted in there because of proper 'orrible weather at my planned destination last summer. I needed to clear customs prior to heading on to my non-customs convenient alternate (where I made an indemnity landing out of hours). 10 mins on the ground and passports photocopied at BFC cost me £200. I understand the £200 was an out-of-hours handling fee (not landing).
They were perfectly charming but I won't be going back there again in a hurry unless (as on this occasion) I have absolutely no choice.

SB

[coolbeans]

On that point, Biggin-Hill's new idea appears to be that unless the weather conditions are below certain minima, they will charge £50 + VAT for an instrument approach.
I understand them wanting to discourage training approaches getting in the way of priority inbound IFR traffic, but it where the a/c I fly is based, and there are weather conditions when I would wish to shoot a vectored ILS rather than grope about in 'VMC'.
I am only an amateur, but INHO their approach does nothing for improving safety, apart from being a ripoff.

I think biggin only bills folks if they are taking instrument approaches for training purposes. If you are an arriving IFR flight talking to thames then I'd be suprised if you are charged.

I havent heard of any weather minimums for ILS approachs.

Could be wrong though

[Flyluke]

Hi Coolbeans,

I think you may be.....

[maxred]

Never mind Biggin, enquired yesterdayto take a Commander into Aldergrove and were quoted 460.00 quid. :bored: When suggested that it might be an error on their part they became quite shirty.:confused: Trip posponed, naturally.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Politicians - Noses in trough most of the year. Second home allowance, Attendance allowance etc etc. Pi$$takers all of them.
I think you mean "MPs" not "politicians".

Most politicians in the UK are very firmly in the voluntary sector; if they're lucky they get their babysitter paid whilst they attend (unpaid) an evening council meeting, having done a full day's work in their day job, but that's about it.

[bfisk]

Lived 2 years in the US, flew close to 1900 hrs, a gazillion (or at least that's how it felt!) landings, never paid a penny in landing fees.

I know a few FBO would charge for handling, but only if you didn't buy fuel. Even putting 5 gals of avgas in a 152 would sometimes yield a follow-me truck, red carpet, golf car to the FBO and courtesy car for dining.

No wonder I won't fly GA in Europe...

[coolbeans]

Hi Coolbeans,

I think you may be.....

Crikey

My mistake then I thought the charge only applied if you booked a training slot.

[Flyluke]

Hi again, coolbeans,

This just lifted from the Biggin Hill website :

The airport reserves the right to charge any aircraft less than 1700kg. for using navaids unless the recorded visibility is less than 7km and the cloud base is less than 1000ft. QFE
Aircraft Weight Category (Tonnes)


All weights

£50.00 per ILS or VOR/DME approach

[BigEndBob]

Quoted £83 to land a C152 at Cardiff, won't be going there again!

[coolbeans]

I stand corrected

[cardinal1]

Is that not where graham hill died damons dad on a foggy night

[Duchess_Driver]

Nope.

Golf course on finals to Elstree.

[clivewatson]

Although I don't pay for the fees personally, we have the same problems in the corporate world. Not only do we have to pay excessive landing, parking, towing and handlings fees, but we also have to put up with charges that would make Dick Turpin blush!

I recently complained about excessive charging at one particular European airport that we visit regularly. In this particular destination we do have a choice - the alternative is 30 ks away for the pax, but the charges are FAR less (in our case 800 Euros.less).

I mentioned this to a couple of other operators who use the same airport/handling agent, and suggested that we complain in bulk. Hey presto - charges for us were reduced by FIFTY percent!

Jump on the bandwaggon guys - if they don't want to play fair - dessert them, but get your mates to do it with you. At the moment they need you more than you need them, so make hay while the sun is shining.

[hugh flung_dung]

I wonder if the mods would allow a sticky for people to list landing and approach fees - ?

HFD

[silverelise]

IME Biggin trainees who want to shoot ILS approaches fly over to Southend and do them there.

[Flyluke]

Hi Silverelise,

Oh yes, I already do -but when I am returning to the a/c's base at Biggin in marginal weather I would rather have the option of making an ILS approach without getting robbed for it.
Which takes me back to my earlier point about a potential safety/price conflict at Biggin.

[dartagnan]

I did hundred of ILS and thousand landing in USA, paid 0$

in europe, each time I push the door of the aeroclub, I start to pay.

result: F...off europe. I dont fly in EU anymore since years!.

cost me much less to got to USA, rent a plane a fly there, than trying to do anything here.

they lost a customer? I bet they do, and I don't give a s...t!

they won? YES, they won, and I keep my Money!

[FlyingGasMain]

Southampton's got a bit more interesting in the last few months. When I had my first job there a couple of years ago there seemed to be no SEP aircraft around and they had kicked out the flying schools.

In my new job there, I walk down to the terminal once a day to get a bit of fresh air and I'd say once a week or so I notice 1 or 2 SEPs parked up. So I'm wondering if they're changing their attitude a bit towards the little guys because the recession's biting.

[polohippo]

Slightly off the point but but I needed a new mic sock for my Bose X headset. Guess how much from Transair, £11.95 PLUS £4.95 shipping what a complete joke. I ordered one from Bose in the USA as I have family there, guess how much? $6 with free shipping, how can this be possible?

Anyway back on point, I work in Spain, the landing fees for light aircraft are cheap, the most I have paid is 12€ upto 2 tons and instrument approaches are free. Over 2 tons they are a little more and an approach is about 6€ not sure what the next band is as I don't fly anything bigger. Also aircraft parking for a light twin cost me 2€ for 24 hours, BRILLIANT!