RAF Strength Question

[Herc-u-lease]

Genuine question and I'm not a journo. Can anyone lay their hands on the number of officers we currently have in the RAF ranging from JO through to Gp Capt? Or alternatively, the approximate number of Air Officers we have (I can do some simple maths from there). If you are able to help please PM me and I'll give you my official email etc, what I need it for and the reason why I can't readily get this myself. Saves me a FOI submission.

Thanks H-u-L

[pigsinspace]

I was not very strong that why I left.
But I think the answer is 15

[Pontius Navigator]

Herc, you serving or not? I believe the number of posts and posts filled is easily available.

Less easy it tracking those in training or overborne, fairly small tho.

[FantomZorbin]

This may help ... but lacks the finer detail.

www.dasa.mod.uk/ (http://www.dasa.mod.uk/)

[Wader2]

There are about 10,393. Close enough?

[NUFC1892]

Try this:

Air Force Lists (http://www.rafweb.org/AFLs%20on%20CD.htm)

[Bo Nalls]

Hansard (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200708/cmhansrd/cm080602/text/80602w0033.htm) - as at Jun 08

[lokiukuk]

that's 10,392 too many

[Wader2]

The difference between the Hansard figures and the 10,393 post figures is fascinating.

For gp capt the difference is 10 and 7 for wg cdr. For sqn ldr however Hansard is 400 lower. For FO/FL the difference increases to 1180. So while the Hansard figures for manning and requirements is balanced the post figure for FOFL is quite marked.

However using a figure of 5000 junior officers gives use one sqn ldr to every 2 JOs - good prospects of promotion chaps.

Again 1 wg cdr for every 2 sqn ldr and 4 JO.

Your chances of gp capt diminish markedly though to 1 gp to every 5 wg cdr, 10 sqn ldr and 40 jo.

So a station with a gp capt stn cdr should have only 56 officers:}

PS, and the actual strength was overborne by 310 senior officers including 30% at air rank.

Assuming 50/100 air cdre the pyramid above would have 1 air cdre to 2.5 gp capt and a total of 140 officers each.

[Herc-u-lease]

Thanks for all the help. I'm serving, just not in the UK. The Hansard figures are the key point I was after, but didn't realise they existed. I'm writing a short academic paper which looks at the amount of middle management we have Vs the quantity of actual "workers". This depends on where you draw the line of strategic manager; needless to say, the Air Force Board gives a pretty good idea of where the delineation lies. The other point I'm looking at is how pilots distort the numbers (I'm talking about a JO in an operational tour and not for a second discounting the management work they do.) As part of a particular model, I need to argue whether a JO aircrew is a core worker or a manager by default of his rank? - that one's a rhetorical Q.:ok:

Particular thanks to Bo Nalls and Fantom Zorbin and Wader2.

H-u-L

[chippy63]

...and here's something from an earlier thread to help you calculate the number of air officers; be sure to calculate for different numbers of aircraft or you'll miss the point.

There is a formula which enables you to calculate the correct number of airships (N) required to command an air force numbering A aircraft.
N = (100/A) x k,
where k = a constant value of 1,400, so that where A = 1,000, then N = (100/1,000) x 1,400 = 140.. .. .Please feel free to calculate the value of N for the RAF of your choice

[Herc-u-lease]

As an anecdote rather than a serious post, there was a TV program (credibility just ruined) a couple of years ago that gave a statistic along the lines of:

If we employed the same ratio of officers to aircraft we had during WW2, based on the number of officers we have today we would have ~50, 000 aircraft.

I haven't bothered to check the facts behind it, but it sounds not entirely unreasonable:)

[TheInquisitor]

The other point I'm looking at is how pilots distort the numbers (I'm talking about a JO in an operational tour and not for a second discounting the management work they do.) As part of a particular model, I need to argue whether a JO aircrew is a core worker or a manager by default of his rank? - that one's a rhetorical Q.

No, it isn't, it's the whole crux of the argument when the 'Why does the RAF have so many Officers?' hamster-wheel comes around again. Aircrew JOs are very much 'workers', not managers. It is that simple, we generally have no 'management' responsibilities outside of our own flight decks / cockpits, save for those that come with secondary duties. Unlike most gnd branch O's, we don't have our own desks, own offices, own computers,and we don't write reports on subordinates. We generally don't HAVE any direct subordinates, outside of our own crew, which for FJ mates would be exclusively fellow JOs anyway. I'd say that makes us 'workers', wouldn't you?

[Wensleydale]

Which leads to..

In the Army, the Officers send the men out to fight
In the Navy, the Officers and the men go out to fight together
In the RAF, the men send the Officers out to fight

maybe we got something not quite right....

[sisemen]

It all stems from the early days of the Royal Flying Corps when the officers would detail a "chap" from the other ranks and send him orf in an aeroplane thingy (bit like having a driver for one's motor car).

However, all that changed when the said officers realised the totty trapping potential that a pair of swashbuckling goggles and leather wellies had :E