Buying planning tools - rulers etc

[tu chan go]

I wonder if anyone can help me with some information.

The guys I work with need to buy some planning tools for their nav planning room - rulers (nautical miles), protractors, attack planning rulers etc. If anyone could give me contact details for somewhere to buy this sort of stuff, I'd be very grateful.

[L J R]

You don't need that stuff. Get a piece of string, mark it at 9 mile intervals for 120 times (thats 2 hours for the digital watches) and place it at the start airfield. Move the string anywhere on the map, as long as the 120th minute is at the end landing point (even if it comes back to the start point) , you can go there. Flight planning should take about 10 minutes this way - about as long as it takes to boot up and log into modern planning software....

Keep the string in flying suit, and maybe a spare or another one for a different scale. Use indelible markers on the string so the flying suit can be washed without losing your planning aid.

in extremus, it can be used in-flight too.

Costs about 83 cents for the string and a buck for the marker. I believe you can claim it on tax too. Most news-agencies sell them.

For those who can't fly at 540 knots at low level for 2 hours non stop, invent another method.

..

[taxydual]

Failing that, you could try here

afeonline.com, Europe's favourite online Pilot Shop, by Airplan Flight (http://www.afeonline.com/shop/)

[Gainesy]

Seen a Wessex loadie use the string on map method in flight, using bacon rind from his sarnie chomped to scale.:)

[Wader2]

What's wrong with finger and thumb?

At Nav School, on one early exercise, the instructor 'confiscates' all the nav kit except for chart, pencil and chinagraph.

No straight edge, protractor or whiz wheel. The stude may improvise to draw straight lines but has to estimate distances and judge angles. They had about 10 minutes to prepare an RTB of about 200 miles.

Oddly not one stude ever thought to take a section of map and use it as a straight edge and measuring tool.

[Could be the last?]

Tip of thumb to first knuckle = 1mile on a 50k and 5 on a 1/4 mil, just guess the rest.:ok:

[Wensleydale]

Fold the map point to point = straight line.

As for distance - as stated use the Rule of Thumb!

1 in 60 rule
QED.

I never had problems with that sort of navigation - I hated all the measuring and logging nonsence leading to Majors, Minors, A7s and double deductions! Thats why I am a radar man!

[MostlyHarmless]

Tsk, standards have dropped. Don't you know by just looking?

[exscribbler]

Pedant mode ON: It's not a ruler - that's HMQE - it's a rule. Pedant mode OFF.

[gripen]

I'm also looking for similar stuff, tried all the usual suspects transair etc but it's all civy orientated, looking for something with turning circles, heading, TAS, alt, etc and such templates on it, 1:500000 and 1:50000 scale if possible. I think they are called 'strike rules' but they are tricky to come by.
Any ideas?
cheers

[tu chan go]

taxydual - thanks for the steer

but as gripen has pointed out, all their stuff is civvy orientated.

For all the useless and sarcastic answers - thanks for making the effort......not!

[Gainesy]

OK here's the section ref number for the RAF issue attack planner thingy with yer distance to run in mins for various speeds and 45 and 60deg banked turning circles, that the one?:)

REF No 6B/6605-99-110-5768

[gripen]

Sounds right, but who do you go to with that ref no.? Are they commercially available or is it an internal RAF thing, I'm overseas:{

[tu chan go]

Thats the puppy, Gainesy. Or at least, one of them. I have various rule(r)s with their serial numbers but don't have the contact details for where to buy them.

[mightynimbus]

Try the London Name PLate Manufacturing company - www.lnp.co.uk (http://www.lnp.co.uk)

They make whizz wheels, plotters and the like , may be minimum orders

Good luck

[Pontius Navigator]

Tu Chan go, you might have thought some of the answers were less than useful but take our word for it, doing without and using estimation and metal DR helps sharpen your skills and prevents mechanical, or electronic assisted, boo boos.

The actual link you need is this one:

London Name Plate (http://www.lnp.co.uk/Other.htm)

and then email them at [email protected].

One item is the 'strike rule' another is the 'Buccaneer Protractor'. Unlike the Douglas it is a substantial piece of kit complete with range scales and rotating azimuth ring. Much better for the short sighted.

[sycamore]

Same company;6B-6605-99-620-0528-WHIZZ WHEEL/GRID CONVERSION;
6B-349,RULE1 MILL/1/2 MILL.
6B/6605-99-634-2253computer D/R Mk5a 50-800kts

[mrskytec]

Hello all,

If you're still looking for instruments, plotters, and the like, try:

- Home - Uplifting Aviation : The finest pilot supplies and equipment (http://proviationshop.co.uk)

Larger orders for FBOs and operators will attract discounts.

Cheers!

[G&J]

Small printed name on my 'Strike Ruler Mk 4' is Blundell Harling Limited, see link below;

Drawing Boards from Blundell Harling (http://www.blundellharling.com/)

Ref number on the cardboard cover is 6605-99-110-5768. However, the ref number on the ruler is 1680-99-6379347


I also have a 'plotter, combat mission, plu-6/c'. The NSN is 6605-00-766-6901. This is a USAF version of the Strike Ruler made by Aero Products Research Inc, Mfr's Part No FAA-215. If you Google the NSN there are other manufacturers listed.

Hope that helps
G&J

[Pontius Navigator]

Small printed name on my 'Strike Ruler Mk 4' is Blundell Harling Limited, see link below;

Drawing Boards from Blundell Harling (http://www.blundellharling.com/)

Ref number on the cardboard cover is 6605-99-110-5768. However, the ref number on the ruler is 1680-99-6379347


I also have a 'plotter, combat mission, plu-6/c'. The NSN is 6605-00-766-6901. This is a USAF version of the Strike Ruler made by Aero Products Research Inc, Mfr's Part No FAA-215. If you Google the NSN there are other manufacturers listed.

Hope that helps
G&J
I know that the 'original' strike rule and the Buccaneer protractor were acquired at the begining of the F4/Buccaneer acquisition. It is quite likely that the RAF F4 crews had copies of the USN rules made.

I know that they visited the LNP Co to ask for a quote to make the rules. They were asked how many they wanted. A quick finger count ensued with a total to match the number of aircraft ordered and an allowance for breakage. A figure of a few hundred was reached.

A bit like the Apprentice, the company laughed and said they had been thinking in the order of 100,000. The cost of material was minimal and they could produce that number in a day. The cost was in creation of the moulds and the cleaning up afterwards.

I don't know how many were ordered in the end. I hope it was a 100k.

[tu chan go]

Sorry for bringing this back to the top but I'm still looking.

I contacted the London Name Plate Man Ltd (and all the other links!) - I hit the same problem as always - minimum order!

I was hoping that someone who is still in the RAF (there must be at least a couple) could tell me where the RAF get all their gizzas. A contact number, a name, anything to put me on the right track. I am working for a small Middle Eastern Air Force and they want to buy the right stuff but in small quantities.

For all of you who recommended the non-equipment approach to planning - I agree. It is the way to go but only if you have a background of flying/aviation and a modicum of common sense and the ability to do mental arithmetic. Initially, however, the young guys I am teaching need to use rules etc to get it right - the instinctive way will come with time.

Thanks in anticipation.

[saudih]

Ha ha well the vast majority of the Aircrew of the Large Middle East Air Force that i work for possess none of the qualities that you refer to .... and they've been at it quite some time now.... Good luck I've made quite a few strike rulers in my time... amazing how long cardboard ones last! :suspect:

[Pontius Navigator]

tcg,

May I suggest something _

Back in the 60s when the RAF took over the RN Buccaneers and was getting the Phantom they liked the RN designed strike-rule. They went to the LNMCo, and were asked how many they wanted. A quick finger count, number of aircraft, number of aircrew, number of spares, and came up with 500 or so.

Like you they were told that the minimum order was measured in DAYS not quantity. The major cost being the setup and the cleanup. In a day some 100,000 could be produced.

Same problem you found.

Now the suggestion. If you can afford it, then order the minimum quantity and then SELL the surplus.

[5 Forward 6 Back]

I seem to remember that I was last given planning kit at EFT groundschool/CCGS at Cranwell, and maybe a couple of extra bits from Technical Stores at Linton.

I don't think it could hurt to try and speak to whoever teaches nav lessons at Cranwell's groundschool now, or even just try and get ahold of someone at Linton's stores? They might not be able to tell you much but can probably let you know where they're ordered from.

[tu chan go]

saudih - the difference between your lot and mine is astronomical....lol

pontius - sounds like a plan but knowing my luck, I'd end up with 99,990 of each piece of kit and be unable to shift em.

5F6B - probably the best way ahead........anyone know the number for the nav planning section at Cranwell? Or Stores at Linton?

[NorthernSID]

The best piece of planning kit I ever used, but a bit flimsy. You do need to take care of them

Had all the circles, timings/speeds, cutouts you need for FJ LL Ops and fitted in a flying suit pocket

Not sure of address, but someone will have it

I got mine directly from Mr (ex Valley instructor Roger?) Brady & they were about £20 a throw 10 years ago

They could be bought in 1s or 2s, so your 'small quantities' should be ideal

Looking for the contact details

[5 Forward 6 Back]

The MoD operator will; just ring your nearest station, wait for the operator, and ask for the section you're after. Technical stores at Linton should have a phone, but for Cranwell you'd need to speak to the groundschool admin people, and I don't know how they'd be listed.

[NorthernSID]

If you put Brady Rule in the Forum search on this website, it will give you all the contact info you need including Roger's contact details & the place that sells them

Good luck

[Gainesy]

Touch,
If your small Middle East AF happens to be Islamic, why not ask the Saudi AF to just give them the gear instead of a new mosque or something?

Anyway, haven't your studes passed out since your first post?:)

[Mr C Hinecap]

SPARE PARTS LOGISTICS for the DEFENSE INDUSTRY (http://www.iso-group.com/)

I've no connection with the above company - but they have a search engine that picks up the NSNs you have in this thread. Asking them to see whether they could provide wouldn't cost anything and it seems to be their business.

tu chan - check your PM - may be of help.

[Cpt_Pugwash]

5F6B,Sadly the days of a telephone operator at each miltary establishment is long gone. All now centralised, with BT still having the contract AFAIK. There was an entire thread on the subject some time ago.