Competition for 'Fat Albert'?

[Flyingblind]

KC390 Launched, force multiplier option for cash starved Air Forces?

Brazilian Air Force signs deal launching Embraer KC-390 tanker-transport (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/04/14/325113/brazilian-air-force-signs-deal-launching-embraer-kc-390-tanker-transport.html)

[Old Fella]

Whilst LM spokesman Ron Covais is correct in asserting that Embraer build a quality product I find it difficult to see where it (KC390) will pose any real competitive threat to the C130. The KC390 and the Herc are very different aircraft and they are/will be used in very different roles I would guess.

[ORAC]

AeroNews: (http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=cb1fb732-8849-45df-bfa5-218f091fcec8#d) Embraer Formally Launches KC-390 Military Transport Program
Twin-Turbofan Aircraft To Enter Service In 2015

There's a new player in the increasingly crowded medium-lift military transport game. In a ceremony held Tuesday during the seventh edition of the Latin America Aero and Defence (LAAD) trade fair, Embraer signed a contract with the Brazilian Air Force (FAB) for the turbofan-powered KC-390 military transport aircraft program.

http://www.aero-news.net/images/content/military/2009/Embraer-KC-390-0409b.jpg

The event was attended by the Minister of Defense, Nelson Jobim, the Head of the Navy, Admiral Júlio Soares de Moura Neto, the Brazilian Aeronautics Commander, General Juniti Saito, and Embraer President & CEO Frederico Fleury Curado.

"The launch of the KC-390 program is a new landmark in the historical strategic partnership between the Brazilian Air Force and Embraer," said Frederico Fleury Curado, Embraer President & CEO. "We are convinced that the development of the KC-390 will result in an effective cargo and tanker aircraft for the FAB and shall also become another successful export platform for both Embraer and Brazil."

The FAB established the requirements for the new aircraft, as it did for previous Embraer military programs like the Super Tucano. The new jet will meet the needs of the FAB, in full compliance with the new National Defense Strategy. The participation of other countries in this program will be evaluated, in conjunction with the FAB, and the aircraft is expected to enter service in 2015.

As ANN reported, Embraer first confirmed development of the transport plane at LAAD 2007. The KC-390 will be the heaviest aircraft ever developed by the Brazilian planemaker, able to lift 19 tons of cargo.

The KC-390 will be the first proposed medium-lift transport aircraft to be powered by dual turbofan engines. The aircraft is slightly larger than the C-27J Spartan, smaller than a C-130, and significantly smaller than the proposed Airbus A400M -- all of which are turboprops

Embraer notes the KC-390 Program "will contribute, in the short term, to maintaining highly qualified jobs, and, longer-term, it has the potential for generating significant export volumes with important aggregate value. The existence of a study regarding this military transport aircraft was presented two years ago, at LAAD 2007. The jet will have a cargo bay equipped with an aft ramp, to transport a wide variety of types of cargo, including armored vehicles, and will be outfitted with the most modern systems for handling and launching cargos."

The new jet will be able to be refueled in flight, as well as used for in-flight or on-ground refueling of other aircraft. The cargo bay will allow configurations for Medical Evacuation (MEDEVAC) missions. The technical advances of the KC-390 include fly-by-wire technology, and the capability for operating on short, unimproved runways.

[Evanelpus]

Whilst LM spokesman Ron Covais is correct in asserting that Embraer build a quality product I find it difficult to see where it (KC390) will pose any real competitive threat to the C130. The KC390 and the Herc are very different aircraft and they are/will be used in very different roles I would guess.

Mmmm, bizarre. The C130 and the E190 series are two totally different animals. Maybe I'm missing something here too.

[BEagle]

We know this.....

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/KC-390.jpg

The KC-390 certainly seems to offer the potential of pretty reasonable AAR support for air forces operating indigenous light attack fighters such as Brazil's A-1.

Please note that 'MRTT' is not a term used by Embraer; it is an Airbus term....

[Blighter Pilot]

And quite spookily both companies seem brilliant at producing computer mock-up pictures of aircraft yet to fly:ok:

My bet is this one enters front-line service before the A400M 'White Elephant' Euros:mad:te

Wonder how good the KC-390 will be at refuelling SH/AH and C130 type aircraft - seems to be a massive hole in the MOD's ability to do that at the moment!

[BEagle]

You probably won't remember it, but before computers (yes, there really was such a time), such renderings of future aircraft were known as 'Artist's Impressions'.

Although C130J could perhaps offer AAR support to helicopters, the MoD did not specify any such requirement. So the 'hole' will therefore remain until the A400M enters service - assuming that the MoD eventually includes a tanker capability in its A400M requirement specification.....:hmm:

[Buster Hyman]

Without seeing any specs on the KC 390, it appears to be of a similar size to the Caribou & perhaps should be marketed in that area...IMHO.

Also, I looked up some images of it but there appears to be 2 versions with high & low tails. :confused:

[Old Fella]

The Embraer KC390 is being touted as a competitor to the C130. The payload for the KC390 is expected to be around 19000kgs which is about the same as a C130. If the project proves successful and the aircraft performs as well, or near to as well, as the venerable Hercules then it will take some sales away from Lockheed-Martin. Can't imagine the US forces replacing any Hercules with KC390's though, nor would I think the RAAF would go away from a proven type with over 50 years of service in various models. It is certainly no Caribou replacement. Will be interesting to follow the project progress.

[GreenKnight121]

The military KC390 is to be developed from the civilian aircraft. It will include a new tail, containing a rear ramp and "T-tail" horizontal stabilizers, whereas the civilian aircraft has a conventional closed fuselage & low-mounted hor-stabs..

[Buster Hyman]

Thanks Old fella, looks can be deceiving.:ok:

[BEagle]

KC-390 is stated as being able to move a 19 tonne payload over 2400 km at 850 kph.

That translates as roughly 460 KTAS average speed.

[vector czar]

New member (found this forum via google), and am glad to be here.

I think this is yet another example of market globalization: Airbus bidding and winning (temporarily) a USAF Tanker contract; a European consortium bidding a VIP Helo contract in the US; CASA making a 235 variant for the US Coast Guard.

I submit that for major players (Airbus, Boeing and the like), they're reaching farther and farther for sales. For countries/areas that relied on the aforementioned producers, they are now wanting to keep the money 'close to home', thereby aiding a domestic/regional manufacturer.

Just my humble opinion.

Best,

czar

[Evanelpus]

How is this thing derived from the E190 series? Looks more like a BAe146 with two engines missing.

[Roland Pulfrew]

Looks more like a BAe146 with two engines missing.

You mean something like this:

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x133/RolandPulfrew/BritishBAe146STA.jpg

Edited to put in a slightly smaller picture!

[BEagle]

Roly, old chum, 2850 pixel width is a bit extravagant; could you resize it to 800-ish?

The probe reminds me of my 1984 April Fool's Day spoof shot of the 'BAe 146P' at Brize having an adjustment made to the probe (a broomstick painted white and stuck to the roof of one of the 146 development flight's jets with a sanitary towel moulded to form the mounting fairing). So convincing was the story of the 'special duties' BAe 146 which I ran in the Gateway Magazine (I wrote that the aircraft had 'A RFIL loop' which biased polarisation and reflected RF energy - and that it also had a 'reduced optical signature' - a Specialised Property Of Optical Fibres....:rolleyes:) that Air Clues later used the photo.

I had to ring them up and tell them that the whole thing was a spoof!

The 146STA didn't really have much chance; 60 paras max, no ramp - and a massive 5 tonnes (or thereabouts) of fuel as a tanker....

You have to wonder why 't Bungling Baron bothered... "Sithee, Seth, we'll show 't Soothern poofs down Hatfield way what 't Norrth West can coom oop with, tha' knaws..."

Thanks for downsizing the photo, Roly!

[pr00ne]

BEagle,

Behave! The 146STA was developed by 'Southern poofs' down AT Hatfield........

[GreenKnight121]

Take a look at this discussion (post #11)... BAe did propose a version with a ramp:
BAe 146STA - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums (http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=3896)

[BEagle]

Well yes, but the 146M seemed to have dropped the tanker role - but there again, a tanker with a total fuel capacity of a mere 14.7 tonnes (about half that of the KC-390, at a guess) would be rather pointless.

Even for 't Bungling Baron! Pr00ne, have you been at the e-numbers again :p ? I understood it was 't FNMs at Warton who told Hatfield to "coom oop wi' a militerrry verrsion of 't 146"

They seem to have conveniently forgotten the rear clamshell airbrake in the drawing from Jane's.....:confused:

[Buster Hyman]

They seem to have conveniently forgotten the rear clamshell airbrake in the drawing from Jane's.....
No, no...they've made them bigger & called them loading bay doors!:ok:

[Evanelpus]

Behave! The 146STA was developed by 'Southern poofs' down AT Hatfield........

Ouch, I worked on the STA at Hatfield and I'm not a southerner!!

[Gainesy]

Here's one we made earlier-- Kawasaki C-1 and Sushi Bombs.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/JGSDF_paratrooper_&_C-1.JPG/800px-JGSDF_paratrooper_&_C-1.JPG