No boot now!

[Keygrip]

:mad: :mad: :mad:

Went out on a road trip last week, left my PC running (as I usually do).

Logged in during the day via GoToMyPC and did what I needed to do. Logged in again a few hours later - PC "Offline" it says. Hmmm. Telephone call to wife assures me that it's still "lit up"

Returned home to find everything "frozen". Image on screen OK, but no mouse or keyboard operations. Forced to hold down power button for four seconds to switch off. Rebooted, no problem. Not frozen since.

Subsequent daily attempts to boot up have been getting progressively more difficult. Occassional "hang" during boot process. Usually got to the end of it with a bit of patience.

Today, booting nicely, past the POST message of counting drives and RAM, then froze at the "Click F10 to enter RAID configuration" message. Held my button down again for a restart - not seen anything since.

No suggestion of a video signal on either monitor (though did get a "Cable disconnected" warning on one display whilst swapping componenets.

Have exchanged identical monitors, have exchanged identical video cards (wife's machine has exactly same components), have tried another video cable.

Switch on PC power button - blank screen.

Any suggestions (that don't involve a sledgehammer)?

=^..^=

[Saab Dastard]

Swap the PSU?

Maybe replace with a higher-wattage PSU.

SD

[Keygrip]

IT's a 1000W that came with the case - CoolerMaster (branded).

I notice today, whilst attempting numerous restarts, that sometimes I can here a fan spooling up and down again (and again and again) whilst the boot process attempts....but I get absolute zero - other than a "No video" signal - on the screen. Not even the chipset name, 512RAM etc.

I also find that sometimes the subsequent switch off needs me to hold the button for 4 seconds - other times it is instant off (like a lightswitch).

"Curiouser and curiouser", said Alice to the White Rabbit.

[green granite]

Do you normally get invited to set the raid config? If not it could be a hard drive pulling the others down, try disconnecting all but the first one and see what happens (if the same disconnect that and connect the second one.)

[Keygrip]

Yus. I'm always invited to play with the RAID.

However, switched it on and off a few times, shoved things around, prodded bits, tightened things, loosened things - even drank coffee and stared at it for a while.

Pressed power button again. "Zing!!" All back to normal.

(Whatever 'normal' is).

Things like these scare me. Finding "intermittent" faults is a challenge.

Finding permanant faults via logic I love - finding intermittent faults on gear that has a mind of it's own..........keep me away from sharp objects and alcohol.

[Cloudrider1]

Hmmm. Starting to sound a little like a dry connection on the board or similar. If it is, it'll be effected by temperature & time. Try leaving the PC powered off for enough time to cool right down. Hopefully it'll boot fine. Over time and with the temperature rising you may see the faults coming back and fans spinning up & down. Immediate reboots may / may not work and if you've checked the ovious things like Video cable, PSU, POST etc then my best guess is get to a good PC shop to check the solder / components.:ok:

[Cloudrider1]

just thought.... if you have more than one RAM module, remove 1 and try to boot. Then do the same with the other. This should effectively route out a faulty DIMM which can give the same issues where more than one DIMM in situ.

[Keygrip]

Thought about that, Cloudy....but if it's intermittent, even removing a module or two (or three - I have 4 x 2Gb) it still might not show.

I like the dry joint idea - though how does one test it?

Temps? I tend to leave the machine running from eyes open (7:30?) till eyes closed (midnight, 1am?). Turn off the two LCD monitors when walking away from it. It auto checks for e-mails every five minutes and gives itself an MRI, as it runs its various scans every day.

So it cooled overnight for six to eight hours - *then * it wouldn't start.

[Cloudrider1]

RAM DIMMS can have varying degress of faults and there are specific tools that can test for these over periods of days. Basically there are loads of different tests to stress the different types of loads put on DIMMS, but you're correct in that the fault should show pretty quick if it is the memory.

To test for dry joints requires specialist knowledge / electrical training which was the point where I stopped. Take it to a shop unless you have the appropriate knowledge / scopes etc. And theory is that the problem will get worse with time, and eventually total failure.

If you have an electrical meter you could test for voltage from the PSU lines - BE CAREFUL IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOIN HERE FOR OBVIOUS REASONS :=- to prove that voltage is getting into the unit. If you are getting voltage then given you've tried all the other major components, I have to guess that it's PCB / dry joint / PCB component failure. I'll try & route out the voltage thresholds for you.

[taxydual]

I had the same thing a while back. The molex? connector (the power connector) was dodgy. As I pushed the connector in to mate up with the male pins, one of the female connectors was being pushed back. (Sounds sexual, I know.) Hence, I was getting a dodgy connection. As the computer got warmer, the coefficient of linear expansion clicked in and broke the power connection to the HD. Everything looked normal, fans running, etc. But the computer froze.

But it could be someting totally different.

Who says computers are mans best friend!!

[Sprogget]

Similar thing for me recently too. Turned out that a usb port had a pin bent back & causing a short. That took some finding.

[Keygrip]

More of a "vent of frustration" - but updated the details slightly to the original post. I've tried everything mentioned - though would *expect* that the memory suggesstions would result in a memory error code appearing during some attempt at boot up, rather than killing off the entire process - not even the first squeak from the speaker.
............................................................ ........................................

Bit of a long story - bear with me (get a coffee?).

Around April 1st, when the doohickey virus was due to hit us all, I downloaded Explorer 8 Beta. Very shortly afterwards, the Explorer 8 RC was released and installed itself (though I had the "let me do it myself option" checked).

Since then, very odd happenings. Computer will run just fine for many hours/days then suddenly freeze, no mouse movement, no button clicks...nuth'n. Graphics working just fine. Only line of defense is a restart. It's not an "everyday" occurrence - but it happens.

I have no symptoms of the virus, nor any mention of a problem from the daily full system scans of my machine. AVG Pro.

Starting: Click the start button, all the stoopid blue LED's come on. I hear a fan running strangely - spooling up, slowing down, spooling up etc.

Computer gets harder and harder to start. Last few days, 90% of start attempts result in absolutely nothing other than fans running. No video to screen, no boot up. About 70% of clicking start button again gives an instantaneous shutdown (not a four second hold down) - the other 30% do require the four second holdown, which would suggest that *something* has happened in there.

Of the remaining 10% of tries, 70% of those will start to show the boot process, on screen graphics showing the BIOS date and 512Mb of RAM, then a memory count, then IDE drive detection, then RAID drive detection....and onwards towards the "Welcome Screen", desktop wallpaper, icon load, windows sidebar load and eventually....running.
70% of those that do start to show the boot up will end with a freeze part way through - at totally variable points in the procedure.

Yesterday - big troubleshooting day, as machine TOTALLY refused to boot in any way, shape, or form.

Swapped the processor with my wifes machine - both ran prefectly in hers, neither ran in mine.

Swapped the video cards (again) - both ran perfectly in hers, neither would run in mine.

Removed all memory sticks from my computer - not a bit of difference, not a shred of life on the monitor.

Put my power supply into her machine, perfect - couldn't do hers into mine - not enough power leads for all the SATA drives.

Rebuilt both, with occassional stops to play with iPhone, got all my machine back together, put it in it's place in the cabinet, hit start - "PRING"...100% immediate start.

I've not turned it off yet - but what the hell can be going on?

Processor checked, power supply checked, memory didn't allow partial boot up and then error code (so works?), graphics card checked, motherboard must be working now (but hasn't been checked anywhere else). Numerous attempts to restart when graphics frozen - but computer components hot. Numerous attempts to start from very cold components - not run for 8 hours or more. (The dry joint theory, above).

Any extra thoughts? Apologies for the repetition.

[frostbite]

Nothing as silly as the BIOS battery keeled over/bad contacts?

[Saab Dastard]

Have you run a full MEMTEST on each module? Either singly or installed in pairs if it supports interleaving.

SD

[Keef]

Something intermittent but temperature sensitive, I'd say.

Having been there a fair few times, these are the final causes as found:
- Dead/seriously ill power supply (six or seven of those, on four computers).
- Duff IDE cable from hard drive to motherboard (two of those).
- Dead or dying hard drive (two of those).
- Duff USB device (cheapo webcam).

The power supply faults included a loose molex in one case, a dead fan in another, and a well-exploded power monitor chip in another - which may have been caused by something upstream of it.

My "first IA" now is to swap out the power supply (I keep a spare, big one in the cupboard). Even if it's too big to fit in the case of the particular PC, it eliminates one option. So far, it's always proved that the resident power supply was defunct.

A 1kW power supply can fail just as easily as a 400 watt one, so the fact that it's rated at far more than the PC needs is no guarantee.

[Jofm5]

I am with Keef on this one - typically it will be the powersupply.

The amount of dust that accrues in these units is unbelieveable - I have can of spray duster on my desk and try to give the machine a good going over as preventative maintenance evey 6-8 weeks. I still have had to change a 600w powersupply on this machine cause it went faulty - giving almost the same as what you are experiencing.

[Keygrip]

I did a swap out with wifey's PSU.

Booted up just fine.

I'm finding, nowadays, that as long as the machine is running - it stays running. Only had one more full freeze since I last wrote.

If the machine turns off, however, it's an absolute pig to get going again.

Bit the bullet when I'd made some space on my credit card - went off to Newegg and bought a 700w PSU.

Gorgeous piece of kit. One of the "modular" things with lots of output sockets on the back and you just plug in short looms to facilitate what you need and nothing more.

"ModXStream Pro" with "OCZ Technology" (no idea what any of that means).

Installed in minutes, very neat, stunningly quiet. Great piece of kit. US$95 (£59).

Turned the machine on......nothing!.

Guess it wasn't the PSU then.

[Saab Dastard]

Great piece of kit. US$95 (£59).

In reality £90+ in UK.

For dollars read pounds, remember?!! :(

SD

[hellsbrink]

Keygrip

Does it get to the BIOS screen and, if so, what happens?

If you get past the BIOS screen, I would personally boot from a Winblows CD, choose the "Repair from console" (or whatever it says, R is the key to hit) option and then "fixmbr".

If you don't get to the BIOS screen, then the first port of call is resetting the BIOS. If you don't know how then tell me the make/model of the motherboard or computer and I will sniff out the manual for you. Usually it's just a jumper that has to be moved, but sometimes you have to merely remove the CMOS battery, wait a minute, and then replace the battery.

If that don't work, make sure you tell us the details and I'm pretty sure we'll figure it out.

[Keygrip]

HB - it just gives up at varying places in the procedure.

The most common is, without doubt, zero video, zero effort and a quick push of the power button on the case turns it off (just like a doorbell push).

Sometimes I will get zero video on screen (confirmed by yellow LED instead of green on monitor case) but it requires the four second hold down of the power button to shut it off.

If I do get the video output, then it could be anywhere along the process of;

Mobo confirmation,
CPU and Bios confirmation,
RAM count,
IDE drive detection (none),
SATA detection, (two optical, four HDD),
RAID configuration option,
Windows booting screen (small "horizontal tube" with coloured squares/dots running through it from left to right),
White cursor arrow on black screen,
Windows Vista logo, (small circle, like a golden ball)
Welcome screen (for password entry) - and audio chimes.
Desktop picture
Icon loading
Windows Sidebar Loading, and finally,
Small green "Vista doing something in general" spinning circle thing (used to be an hourglass).

If it gets to the end of that - it runs like a dream...auto skype login, Outlook opened (on command) and off we jolly well go.

Could freeze at literally *any* point in the process. Only recourse is to power down with the four second hold down of the main power button - then try again.

Time, temperature...all that stuff...seems to have no bearing on it. It's akin to "just catching it right" then it works if it wants to.

Mobo has 3 year warranty, PSU is 2 year, dunno about the RAM - but all components are 15 months old.

[green granite]

When I was fault finding on m/cs with faults like yours I would remove everything that was not needed to get it into the basic operating mode. So remove all but one of the ram modules, all the sata discs except the one with the OS on it and any other cards you have installed except the video card obviously (unless there's an on board graphics option as well) externally just have the keyboard plugged in and see if you can get it to boot consistently, if you can add a component and repeat until you find which one starts the problem, if you still cant boot then check over the motherboard connectors including all the card slots, ram slots and power connectors using a magnifying glass (a 50mm camera lens is a good substitute) looking for bent or distorted pins, cracked plastic bits etc. also check the edge connectors on the video card and the pins in the psu connectors for discolouration as that might give you a clue.

[terrain safe]

Had a very similar problem to yours on a PC many years ago. Turns out it was the processor. I had had 3 new Mobos, 2 power supplies, new RAM, graphics cards and HDDs everything. Sent the processor off to be tested and it turned out that was the problem. Might be right but as you've said these intermittent problems are a real bugger.

[Keygrip]

I've already swapped out RAM, video card and CPU with wifey's machine.

I bought all the bits for both - and they are all interchangeable (with the exception of the power supplies - as mine came already installed in the case).

The *only* bit that has to be tested in another way (but I don't know what that will be) is the mobo.

I don't have the heart, or the correct wife, to strip both machines at the same time and rebuild from zero - especially with the threat of her inheriting the faulty component.

I'll buy another mobo if I can't get them to cross ship another one on an RMA.

Everything is so *backed up* and protected that it's now more of an intriguing challenge than a disaster.

[Keygrip]

FOUND IT!!

Intermittent connection between video card and motherboard.

Bought a PCI card to try instead of the PCI-E card. Worked a treat.

Motherboard still under warranty, too. Yay!!

Six months to track the fault. Any marks for staying power?