JPA Test Case?

[Bruiser Loose]

Now here's something to ponder.

I go away on a duty trip that involves some day subsistence and night subsistence that I need to claim back.

On one of the quiet evenings in, I accidentally press on the pay-TV button on the remote control AND then accidentally type in my room number/or PIN and would you Adam and Eve it, some top quality Frankie Vaughn appears on my screen.

I submit my JPA claim and either forget about said adult edumacational movie or knowingly claim for it.

In light of the recent Home Secretary's fraudulent claim, can I be done for it? IIRC, all she did was pay back the money.

Joking (and porn flicks) aside, did the HS make a fraudulent claim and if so, does this mean that any serviceman (or woman) doing a similar thing will not lose their job?

Food for thought/discussion

BL

[Pontius Navigator]

RA,

Actually we had a complete nonsense at a hotel not far from Lossie.

One person booked, I think, 9 rooms in individual names.

On check out I noticed my bill was remarkably low - I was not the first to check out. I had only been charged for the second night. Others had paid and said nowt.

My bill was corrected and I know some of the others too. Then the chap who had made the booking almost fainted when he was presented with a bill of over £900 for 2 nights. The numpty behind reception had corrected and added the extra night to our bill but not taken it off his.

You are also right about checking as a different hotel had charged me for a food item but failed to deliver. As it was not my money there was no skin off my nose quibbling but it was the principle.

[D-IFF_ident]

Pre JPA, but the scenario in the OP has been done - Courts Martial followed, solicitors in the employ of Mr Gilbert Blades ripped apart the Air Force donkeys, as usual. Innocent Imprest holder, who had mistakenly paid for another crew member's Frankie set free and absolved of all charges. :ok:

PIE now includes access to the internet (so you can email home) - so, even though movie titles do not appear on your room bill, you'd be better off doing your one-handed surfing via a laptop. Or get the GE to cut and paste a portion of his hard drive, for free. Then you can spend your allowances on what they were originally intended for; beer and strippers. :cool:

[Tankertrashnav]

some top quality Frankie Vaughn appears on my screen.

Can you enlighten me Bruiser Loose? I thought Frankie Vaughan was a smoothie crooner from Liverpool in the 1950's with trade-mark straw hat and cane. If he's still around I dont think he'll be much use in porn films, so have I got the wrong Frankie here?

[Grabbers]

You could also use the cash for some 'Roger Moore-ing' if you fancy. Don't try it in Africa though:E

[Tankertrashnav]

Cockney rhyming slang, I'll wager.

Thanks Dave, I was a bit slow there (as I usually am). Poor old Frankie, I doubt if he would have liked his name used for that. He was a ladies' man certainly, but I cant see him with a big moustache and gold chain doing the business for the cameras.

[Bruiser Loose]

Yes, dear old Frankie. I do agree that the best action is probably available thru one's laptop, but the thoughts that I intended to provoke were more towards fraudulent claims in general rather than ones to do with some 'pink piston action!'

I have never, nor plan to, submit a fraudulent JPA claim, but there are 'numpties,' as RA puts it, that do. Does the apparent lack of disciplinary proceedings against Jacqui Smith mean that a 'numpty' can escape investigation?

[SirToppamHat]

If the odd thing is claimed for in genuine error, it should be looked at in the context of the whole set of claims made by an individual. I suspect that there is a good deal more money not claimed by individuals (through ignorance, or it being just too difficult) than is claimed fraudulently - I doubt this is true of many MPs.

I was at one unit where an admin SNCO put together a useful little claims guide and used to hand it out to people as part of their clearing for dets; it wasn't long before he was told to stop. Ostensibly the reason was that it wasn't part of the procedures, but I do wonder now whether there were more sinister reasons for it.

Courts martial should be reserved for the genuinely deserving - such as the chap who claimed for several hundred pounds in course fees, even though he knew that the bill had been settled direct by another part of his Unit; he did this several times and was eventually caught out, GCM'd and is no longer serving.

There are those (especially civvy adminers), who would want to see the full weight of the law brought to bear on the miscreant (ignorance = no defence, there's no excuse for not checking etc etc etc), but those who move around a lot (eg AT crews) can find it genuinely difficult to keep a track of what's been spent, especially when bills are in different languages and there are frequent currency changes, and the JPA is hardly helpful!!!

By the way, I think I asked on another thread why on earth we have to book our hotels and travel through HRG - still no response. Every single trip I have done through them could have been done better and at a lower cost if I had sorted it myself.

STH

[Impiger]

Sir TH

I know the feeling - as a seasoned traveller in a previous post I invariably found I could get a better room rate than that arranged through CHBS now Hogg Rob. At one point I was regularly staying in a Brussels hotel at 50 Euros a night less than CHBS rate but when JPA came in it became all too difficult and letting the company bear the extra cost for the sake of an uncontested claim became the easy way ahead.

I did however query why, on the face of it, the CHBS looked like such poor value. The answer from a highly placed source was that while my UIN took the heat of the claim, CHBS paid money back in to the Department's coffers for each booking so the overall cost to Defence was less. I enquired politely how much we got back so that I could compare deals but was patted on the head and told that was commercial-in-confidence and I didn't need to know! I think the line was 'trust me it's cheaper this way or we wouldn't do it'.

[SirToppamHat]

...while my UIN took the heat of the claim, CHBS paid money back in to the Department's coffers for each booking so the overall cost to Defence was less.

Sounds like BS to me, and it just doesn't hold water. If you are the CO of a Unit, you will be under pressure to maximise the value for money from your ever-shrinking budget. The fact that money may be paid back into the HLB (or whatever it's called these days) is of no benefit to you as the CO. There is certainly no 'pay back' to my UIN.

Just to give people out there an indication of the sort of nonsense we are talking about here (and I am pretty sure I've ranted about this before), booking 30 rooms at a well known motel type chain at £70 per night (same rate as Bloggs off the street) for 4 nights. 30 x 4 x 70 = £8400. Same booking through our special agent:

1. No reduction in room rate.
2. Still need to let them know all the names etc, so same nause for me and I have to employ someone in the Travel Cell (£25k PA?).
3. The addition 'booking fee' at £5 per person per night.
4. Total cost £9000.

Same situation, same hotel, direct through the company account: £6000. Special Rate, no booking fees.

Oh and before some smart alec asks why use a hotel instead of mess accommodation, I don't think you'd really want 25+ Russian officers and SNCOs wandering round your Unit!

STH

[FarWest]

On a recent Group Booking through HRG, they were also in-line for a 10% commission from the hotel.

Like other posters here, I have yet to find an example where a booking through HRG is cheaper than I can do myself.

Also, they insist on Car Hire in the USA including insurances that can not be removed; these are unnecessary since the MOD self-insures in the USA.

Overall another good earner for HRG and another rip-off to the MOD.

FW