Don't frighten the horses

[Riskman]

BBC NEWS | England | Devon | MoD blamed over horse kick injury (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/7991951.stm)

Naughty Chinook, anyone would think you were practising for a war zone:=

[ProfessionalStudent]

Anyone who rides these highly strung "flight" animals should be aware of the risks. If it had been spooked by a plastic bag, would she have sued Tesco's?

[Gainesy]

She wasn't riding it, it reared and bashed her head with its forepaw or whatever its called on an oss.

Still, seeing as how you can hear a Wokka coming for ages, she could have moved away from the thing if it looked nervous, it was the other side of a gate from her.

[airborne_artist]

Still, seeing as how you can hear a Wokka coming for ages

Not always true - the lower they are, the less you hear them in advance, and if she was upwind of the wokka, and perhaps behind trees/buildings, it could become very loud very suddenly.

[AIDU]

Still, seeing as how you can hear a Wokka coming for ages

How do you know that the woman isn't hard of hearing or even deaf?:ugh:

[Gainesy]

How do you know she is?:)

[minigundiplomat]

The article does not mention if she was wearing a flourescent jacket, provided 'free of charge' by the MOD to highlight horsey type people to helicopter crews, thus avoiding incidents of this type.

The same jacket may also prevent a 'car v horse' scenario which I believe is far more prevelant and accounts for far more injuries/incidents than the odd one involving helos and picked up by the press.

I can't stand horses, or most horseriders but I do respect their right to do whatever makes them happy.
Training for war doesnt make me happy, it merely increases my chances of survival as I go about the tasks assigned by the government these people have elected into political office.

There is a compromise to be made, which I believe is wearing the FREE day-glo jacket the MOD provide.

[airborne_artist]

MGD - while the hi-viz kit is good, it's not a magic wokka-repelling suit. What if the horse/rider is masked by buildings/trees/hedges/vehicles/the lie of the land?

It's fine if they are riding across a flattish, open piece of ground, but otherwise it's as useful as a chocolate teapot.

If you like I'll ride a pre-agreed route on my grey (white) nag, and you can see how easy I am to spot from your airborne chariot.

[anita gofradump]

I think you're playing devil's advocate AA. If a car drove past and spooked the horse, the woman would find it difficult, nay (do you see what I did there :}?) impossible to take any civil action.

I think she took her own risk by standing next to the horse in the first place and should take some responsibility for her own actions.

[airborne_artist]

AG - to an extent, yes, but I was trying point out to MGD that the hi-viz gear is not a guarantee of aircraft (and only RW aircraft at that) not spooking the gee gees.

[Pontius Navigator]

You FEEL the wokka before see or hear it.

[Seymour Belvoir]

anita

top handle mate, made I larf!

[TheWizard]

30 feet? Naughty boys (unless they were landing in the next field, in which case a hi-viz wouldn't have helped much!!)

[minigundiplomat]

AA - Agree it's not an infallible system, but a high viz vest would only have made matters better.

[AIDU]

but a high viz vest would only have made matters better.

What a ridiculous thing to write. She wasn't riding the horse, she was stood on the other side of the fence. Why would you wear a high viz vest to stand and stroke a horse which is fenced off from you?:ugh:

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Love him or hate him he really does have a point...........as he usually does :ok:

[Could be the last?]

It's classed as a high risk sport (horse riding); therefore, take out an insurance and claim on it! If you can't afford the insurance - don't ride or accept the risk!

It would be interesting to see what damage was done to the building if the ac was that low. More importantly, the women obviously had a great deal of capacity to work out the ac hgt whilst taking a hoof to the head.....:E

[Airey Belvoir]

Some would say that an imprint of a horses hoof upon one's dial might be an improvement. :}

Nice to see the Belvoir family well represented on this site :E

[wokawoka]

I can't believe this.
This woman was actually outside the paddock when the horse reared after the Chinook flew by. And by the way it was not below 30 Ft as the data showed. So there she lies to start with.
Would you people go and have a go with a scared horse who is rearing and kicking? No one with common sense would. She did. She got kicked for it after the Chinook had gone. I understand the noise of the Chinook will potentially endanger the animal, but the noise of the Chinook did not throw her into the paddock into the horse's hoof. That was her conscious decision.:ugh: But yet she is going to claim and the crew will have to go through the process of the investigation. People who complain have know idea what awaits us downstream!!

I don't know why I rant, MOD will pay hundreds of thousands of pounds to shut her up. She should be privileged that in this country she can freely ride a horse. There is a good reason for that.

[StopStart]

She should be privileged that in this country she can freely ride a horse. There is a good reason for that.

Wait, what? I did wonder what all the wars were for but now I know - defending our right to ride horses. Mega.

Fruitcake. 100% fact.

:hmm:

[bast0n]

How do you get hold of a free Hi Vis vest from MOD?:)

[anotherthing]

You have to post pictures of you, with your horse, to your nearest RAF Establishment.

Don't get them mixed up with the piccys you meant to send to 'Animal Love Monthly' mind you...

[wokawoka]

Stopstart,

Thanks for your post. Brilliant.:ugh:

[SirToppamHat]

bast0n asked:
How do you get hold of a free Hi Vis vest from MOD?

Assuming this is a genuine question, see here:

How to Get A High Vis Vest - British Horse Society (http://www.bhs.org.uk/content/Ods-More.asp?id=5755&pg=Information&spg=News&area=9)

Google is your friend.

STH

[StopStart]

Thanks for your post. Brilliant.

Any time fella, no probs. Keep up the good work.

[Cyprus countrybred]

STH: Just tried to email the person named in the link... bounced back. Will have to continue to search for the elusive vest!

[SirToppamHat]

Try ringing the number then.

01926 707737

STH

[The Claw]

What a ridiculous thing to write. She wasn't riding the horse, she was stood on the other side of the fence. Why would you wear a high viz vest to stand and stroke a horse which is fenced off from you?

Had she been wearing a high viz vest, then the horse would obviously have seen her and avoided the whole situation in the first place :}

Marvelous bit of kit, without the high viz vest where would we be today.......

[dave_perry]

Apparently, she was annoyed that the pilot left her there to die. Would he have even known she was there in the first place? I think not.

[Evalu8ter]

If the pilot had landed on to see if he/she could help, this victim would probably have sued for trespass or damaged crops....I do wonder if she was wearing a hi-viz vest or if she'd rung the Low Flying Hotline to ascertain any RW activity in her area before she set out?

I had a few horse complaints over the years. The best was a "reliable eye witness" who'd signed a statement to the effect that I'd been over their friends house at "tree top" height causing a prize mare (of which I've known a few..) to bolt into a barbed wire fence. Problem for them was that I was on the ILS into Chiv at the time and London had a radar trace to confirm that I was over 600ft at the time. I asked the plods if they were going to prosecute the "reliable eye witness" for perjury or fraud only to recieve a wry smile.

It is regrettable that this individual has been hurt whilst indulging in her passion, but then so do sailors who drown, hang gliders who crash and motorcyclists who skid on someone elses diesel spill. Blame the lawyers; nobody seems to take responsibility for their actions nowadays.

[ReachForTheStars]

The crabs, wazzing everywhere at 50' even if there is no need for it? Whatever next.....

[Cyprus countrybred]

Really annoyed

Can't afford to buy one, me 'orse costs me too much!

cc

[winchman]

What a load of cock!! I work on an air ambulance and at least 50% of our call outs, and certainly more than motorbikers are to horse riders... and it's strange that they are so pleased to see us when we fly in. It's not impossible even to land in paddocks and stable yards and the anti helicopter brigade soon shut up when we pick fallen riders up.

I cant believe in this day and age that riders dont have insurance, no one would put there 10 year old daughter on a motorbike without a helmet and send her off down a busy main road at 30 mph, so why do they think it is sensible on a horse????:ugh:

[Stretch182]

Winchman

This message needs to be broadcast - everywhere - before these t*$%ers get their way - I heard this silly cow on the radio earlier, and it seems she completely fails to understand that there are a couple of jobs going on at the moment and people need to train hard.

She wants shooting - slowly!

[Noah Zark.]

Perhaps orse drivers should wear hi-viz vests AND transponders, that might help. It might be that this biddy might just be be grabbing at the chance to make a quick buck after a bang on the bonce from her bucking buckaroo! Someone might have just whispered down her shell-like -"Blame it on the Wokkas!"

[xraydice]

Strange though it may seem,
Horses are quite adept at coping with strange situations and generaly panic when the herd leader ( read stupid woman ) takes flight or demonstrates fear.
When riding out I always face the horse to the possible threat be it fast car , loud tractor or low rotorcraft by not demontrating fear the horse knows it ok and not a threat.
We get a lot of training flights ( low ) and normal traffic here so the nags are used to it , they also like to follow the tractor when topping fields. Of course no horse is 100% and owners should take responisbility in assesing risk factors. as for Hi viz.too much about ,would be pulling up for paper boys , road workers,plod,joggers,discarded vests on the road side and on and on

[El Mirador]

It would be interesting to see if there had been any previous helo activity as horses get pretty used to things. I used to be a daily visitor to RAF Northolt when there were up to 16 horses stabled and non displayed any adversity to the aircraft, including zeppelins etc. I think she may have a job proving this as will possibly have to establish negligence as if the aircraft was flying within its legal and designated parameters there should be no problems. I feel for her as horsey myself (apologies for those of you who find us tyrants) and have experienced many situations were horses react pretty violently. I agree whole heartedly with the insurance issue and since I think there is strict liability with animals, also find it unbelievable that noone would insure. The case law recently on this, notably Mirvahedy -v- Henley and Another 2001 emphasises this.

[Fark'n'ell]

Should have trained her bl#*dy horse better.Don't think the cavalry in WW1 had too many problems with their horses and the noise would have been a lot more frightening than a friggin wokka.

[Fortyodd2]

The BHS Safety Officer is Shiela Hardy- could help with the free vest thing. email [email protected]

[BEagle]

Having lived for a fair old while in the country (ooh-ahrrr), one knows to slow one's motor whilst approaching Lady Chlamydia Winless-Chunder perched on half-a-ton of self-propelled Kennomeat on country roads...
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/Internet/zxzxz.jpg

But only because Lady C might well be accompanied by her young gels clad in tight jodhpurs and clingy blouses, under which bounce perkily their.....oooh, nurse, Kleenex! And quickly please!

Giving reasonable consideration to nag-navigators is one thing, expecting to provide every Dobbin with its own low level avoidance area whenever it goes for a stroll across the bondhu is quite another.

'twould not seem unreasonable for horsists to obtain their own all-risks insurance in this day and age.

[MG]

I wouldn't get to hopeful for the free hi-viz stuff. It was a limited hand-out (500 comes to mind) to highlight the benefit of wearing hi-viz. The trial undertaken did confirm that it had outstanding benefits in aiding helicopter crews to see the rider and horse, but it's not a panacea. Having said that, I now live in a very horsey area (a vilage just on the edge of the Lambourn Gallops) and I rarely see riders wearing the stuff. They really don't help themselves and just blame the MoD as it's as easy as stealing candy from a baby!

[GGR]

I could get all protective and defensive of horse and riders here but I fear the backlash from within this thread. I would however like to point out that flying a helicopter is actually easier than riding a horse! I would be surprised if her horse simply reared up without warning and landed her one on the head? Should back off and let the animal settle before approaching IMHO :-)

GGR
(no pun in the name before you start)

[ProfessionalStudent]

GGR

Do you have people shooting at you while you ride your horse..?

[Agaricus bisporus]

In several years of flying helos at low level, inspecting power lines etc (far lower than even our illustrious Chinooks go), landing in fields over horses, in fields next to horses, I've yet to see one properly spooked. Yes, some run around a bit but quickly quieten down, it is my opinion that horses are far more sensible than most riders give them credit for, and also are far more sensitive to the mood of the rider than most give credit for. If the rider becomes frightened (perhaps in anticipation of what the horse hadn't, until then, thought of doing) or angry then this is communicated to the poor horse which then reacts accordingly.

The worst behaved horse I've seen have all had riders on their backs...

Is this the helicopter's fault?

JUst like poultry and sheep slaughter, imho 95% of horse/helo trouble is invented for other motives.

[MG]

It definitely does seem to be a far more accute problem with the Chinook. I've flown in several types and none seemed to create the reaction from horses that Chinooks do. The crews know it and really do their level best to minimise the problem but the horse riders rarely seem to meet them halfway. A brown horse riden by a Barbour-wearing rider is camouflaged! Hi-viz may not be de-rigeur at Badminton but it might save a life, whether the 'threat' is from the air or the road.

I really do like the horse-riding community but it 'irks' that they can blame the MoD and get away with it when they know that it wouldn't be the same if it had been a car, a bike or a plastic bag!

[Wensleydale]

I find it perverse that a person's hobby is seen to take priority over national security. Once again we are the victims of poor PR and are seen as the bully and in the wrong.

The problem will be if it is proved that the helicopter was breaking the rules. We seem to be a nation that is not prepared to accept responsibility for our own actions (including from PM down at the moment). If the Chinook crew was breaking the rules then they deserve all they get - if they were not, then there is no case to answer. Far too often these days, people do not follow the laws/guidance laid down and when something goes wrong it is not their fault. I refer you to the IPhone thread - I am sure that IPhones are not allowed to be used on military aircraft under release to service rules - yet I am sure that there are many who use them.

Follow the rules, and the law should back you up. Break the rules and be prepared to accept the consequences - everything else is just a poor excuse.

(Descend from soap box.....).

[ProM]

We get a lot of low flying Chinooks round our way and wifey, who rides horses, says that they are nowhere near as bad as fixed wing. The reason is that you can hear them coming so the horse isn't surprised. Unfortunately for her we also get some very low (but mostly slow) fixed wing.

Yes, military need to prepare and practise. However there is always going to be a compromise between military needs and the peace and prosperity they are there to protect.

I personally would prefer the night time low flyers to not use our village church (very distinctive) as an aim point on their runs (anyone who has almost got a baby to sleep when a loud noise wakes them for another hours screaming will understand why). They need to do low night runs, but they could aim to not overfly the village (there is lots of space).

Have I complained? No. Will others? Probably. The more the mil show they are attempting to minimise disruption, the less likely it is that they will find more draconian restrictions imposed upon them

[GGR]

Do you have people shooting at you while you ride your horse..?

PS.........You have mis-understood my post. If you and many others it would seem in here feel it necessary to constantly remind us that the members of the armed forces (the clue is in the name) who join up hopefully do some research in to what may happen when you put on a target, sorry climb aboard an aircraft belonging to the perceived enemy?

I did 3 tours in NI in the early seventies and was shot at plenty of times! Not only in the air but on the ground! One or two of those shots nearly missed!! Has anyone thought that this woman may actually be receiving some counselling from one of our beloved blame game lawyers? fuelled by the media? Could just be. To all my present day colleagues of all forces concerned I wish you God speed and Giddy up for a safe return from your endeavours.

GGR

[Blighter Pilot]

I once got spooked by a horse and rider while out for a run - can I sue the horse's owner/rider?

Should I have been wearing a hi-vis running vest?

I for one would rather do my OLF overseas - happy for the taxpayer to fund a minimum of 25 hours per year in the USA for 9 multi-engine crews:ok:
Not to mention FJ, RW etc etc

[Dan Gerous]

...best keep away from Spade this week :eek:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/toom317/Car15.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/toom317/Car07.jpg

[minigundiplomat]

I personally would prefer the night time low flyers to not use our village church (very distinctive) as an aim point


The village of Privet?

[AIDU]

The village of Privet?

I hear that they have nice hedges there. Although I wouldn't want to hedge my bets and put all of my money on that. They have a saying in Privet "A hedge between keeps friendships green". Personally I think that is a load of crap as they say in the next village "The saxon ****s in his breech, the cleanly Briton in the hedge".:hmm:

[Pontius Navigator]

I am also in a 'horsey' area and have many times had near misses driving passed them on windy country road. Plenty of grass verges that they chose not to use and wearing hi-vis brown barbours. One girl had a hi-viz armband but on the inside!

At least one smart rider puts hi-viz yellow socks on the horse - now that I do see.