NetJets Europe

[N42ER]

Hi, I'm new to this forum. I was wondering if NetJets Europe is hiring, and what some realistic and competetive quialifications might be (the only technical ones listed on the website were 1500 hours).

Thanks

[I like planes & stuf]

Generally - you only need to post in one section of the site, this question is also in the Terms & Endearment section.

[redsnail]

To be fair, another poster suggested that the OP post here. Probably not realising that this forum is for comparatively low houred folks.

To answer.
We're not hiring for the foreseeable future.

1500 hours min. Pref with 500 hours on a JAR/FAR 25 aircraft.
Usually folks have a LOT more than that. Typically 3,000 hours +.

Must haves.
JAR ATPL. (Some rare exceptions for ex mil, but must have the ATPL theory completed)
European citizenship.

Useful to have.
Another language(s) is useful but not necessary

General aviation experience (that is, charters etc) is useful.

[papazulu]

1500 hours min. Pref with 500 hours on a JAR/FAR 25 aircraft.

Spoke to 1 of your LTCpt about 3 weeks ago and in his opinion once NJE will start hiring again JAR23 (i.e. Kingair or similar) would do fine.

Usually folks have a LOT more than that. Typically 3,000 hours +.

Another guy (FO) told me 2 days ago he joined with less than 2000TT (18-900-ish) and knowing a Cpt. took his CV at the top of the pile.

Right or wrong we all hope this downturn turns UP again SOON!

PZ :ok:

[N42ER]

Thank you so much for all your help!!! I have been wanting to work for NJE for a while now and was thinking about getting my required certification and applying, once they start hiring. At the moment, however, I do not have the required certification, as I am an FO for US Airways Express flying DHC8-100 & 300's; all just US licenses (commercial pilot, flight instructor, etc...). I am hoping that after getting these certifications I might be competetive next year or the year after (I'd have about 3000hours multi-engine turbine SIC time with an airline).

Do you guys think these qualifications on this aircraft type (just a turboprop, no jet time) would be competetive (assuming I get the required JAR certifications)?

Also, for anyone who works there...how do you like it there?

Thanks.

[redsnail]

N42ER,

You're not confusing NJE (Europe) with NJA (America)? If you don't have European citizenship then NJE is not available. NJA & NJI have different requirements.
Turboprop time is fine for NJE. I cannot answer for NJA & NJI.
The JAA (or EASA) license is quite expensive and it's not a quick and easy process. That's another topic altogether.

However, I love the job and I think it's a brilliant combination of GA variety with airline quality equipment & pay.

PZ,
You'll note I said "pref" with respect to JAR25 aircraft. We have quite a few crews with us that have "only" had King Air time prior to joining.
Yes, you can join with less hours than what I stated however, since the flying rate is somewhere between 200-500 hours a year (depending), you're looking at 2-3 years at least before you'll have the hours for command. (Something to consider although the seniority list will probably slow you up more.)

We are all hoping the upswing happens soon. I personally cannot see any hiring for at least 6 months if not longer.

[papazulu]

Yes, you can join with less hours than what I stated however, since the flying rate is somewhere between 200-500 hours a year (depending), you're looking at 2-3 years at least before you'll have the hours for command.

As I am not part of NJE I do not know what are the requirement for command. From the few sources I have I understand that average hrs flown in one year is 300-ish on the small/medium fleet with the Line Trainers flying a bit more.

The FO I spoke recentlty was on his 10th sector since Jan so I guess the pace is even slower right now. However his opinion was that NJE is trying to retain as many crew as they can in order to be ready for the upturn when is comes (if it does...:{). I think you are in the best position to confirm that there were very quick LHS transitions in the past but they might be long gone by now...

Wishing well

PZ :ok:

[redsnail]

Yes, quick upgrades aren't happening anymore. :suspect:
NJE are trying to avoid redundancies, so far, so good.

We are all hoping the upswing does come soon, for every one. :)

[N42ER]

Thanks for your reply redsnail :-)

I'm not confuding the NJE, in fact I have a friend who works for NJI. I am currently an American citizen, however I have an oppourtunity to obtain an EU passport and am looking into FAA-JAA conversion costs.

From what I've seen of the NJE payscale, I could easily pay for the conversion and make the cost back my first year of working, compared to what I'm making as an FO with US Airways Express flying the Dash.

About how much could a first year FO make these days? Have you guys made concessions in pay lately? How many hours a month do you fly? Are you paid by flight hours like an airline or on salary? What are the flight benefits like?

Thanks so much for your help, this forum has been amazing compared to some others I've visited!!!

[I like planes & stuf]

You can find more here (http://www.netjetseurope.com/data/eng/popup_careers.html) along with a breakdown of the current remuneration package.

[redsnail]

"I like planes and stuf" has provided a good link for the current package.

Unfortunately there is no "scale", so the only pay rise is from inflation etc.
The per diems are paid for every day you're on tour. If you're on home standby, no per diems. There is no flight pay.
Tax is slightly different depending if you're UK domiciled or Continent domiciled.
So far no concessions.

Hours per month? It depends on what fleet you're on. The smaller aircraft guys, well, some have done no hours. Medium fleet are probably looking at 10-20 hours a month, large fleet possibly the same or a few more.

A couple of years ago, it was more like 40-50 hours a month. Several things have influenced that apart from the recession. We don't do as many positioning flights as we used to plus we're not going to Iceland or Russia as often.

Do not underestimate the pain and hassle of the conversion. I did it in 2001 (yep, great timing...) and it cost the best part of £15K + living expenses.. The exams are an exercise in obscure weird details and being able to memorise an awful amount of stuff.

If you are set on working in Europe & for NJE, firstly get your passport.
Rules change so don't assume. :O
Then contact Bristol Ground School and do their ATPL distance learning while you're still earning and gaining experience.
Then pop over for the medical & the brush ups & get the first 6-7 exams done. Repeat in about 3-6 months for the rest of them.
Hopefully, economy's picked up. Do the flying part, probably for you, Dash 8 sim etc. Voila. One EASA/JAR ATPL & residence in Europe.
Send out CVs.

Life is a bit different for a corporate pilot versus airline.
You'll be loading the bags.
Sorting the catering.
Collecting and briefing the passengers/owners.
Serving the owners drinks & having them chat to you in flight (not all the time :)
Sorting out the toilet services (some fleets are better than others...)
Cleaning and vacuuming the aircraft.
Organising transport.
Dealing with last minute changes to destinations and departure times.
In flight diversions are not unusual.
In some situations - filing flight plans etc.

It's all good fun (except the toilet..). No 2 days are the same. In fact no 2 hours are the same. There's no way I would go back to airline flying. :ok:

[Damianik]

ehi Red,
i am in your fleet, doing line training...it is a week now i am flying the Geneve-Nice-Geneve-Nice shuttle...it feels like EASYJET....
Joking...

D

[redsnail]

:E never said it was perfect. Oh, I'm in Lisboa this week, I can have a word with Scheduling if you like. Vnukovo & Chelyabinks suit you? :E

[Damianik]

Please no...I have no visa..they will arrest me where i stand...
It is quite nice actually, i am loving it
Cheers

[lpokijuhyt]

so what's the difference between having the passport and having the right to live and work in the EU visa? Seems like having the green card should be good enough?

[redsnail]

The biggest hassle is negotiating visas for other countries. Eg China, Russia, USA etc. It's hard enough dealing with +1,000 crew with European citizenship than to have to wade through the vagaries of other nationalities.

Hence dual citizens travel on their European citizen passport. (eg, me. Australian & British. Travel exclusively for work on my British passport).

[N42ER]

would having an American passport as well as a Polish passport be enough to work for NJE? I am engaged to marry a Polish citizen and would myself get my citizenship there...I think

[redsnail]

I am not an immigration expert nor am I in recruitment.
So IMHO the American passport doesn't mean much to NJ[b]E[b] except you won't have to get all the pesky visas to go to the US to train etc.

Poland is a member of the EU and thus would be ok. However, I am not an immigration lawyer so I would check with the Polish authorities exactly what status you would get.

[TQ]

How are pilots upgraded to captain ? Does it go strictly by seniority, or are there out of seniority upgrades (depending on background and quals) ?
Thanks.

[Duck Rogers]

Try 'Search' and the Bizjets forum. It's all been asked (and answered) there many, many times.

Duck

[Brainstorm]

Just talked to a mate that works for NetJets. Apparently some 300 pilots are to be made redundant.

[old'n'bald]

Brainstorm, have a look on the Bizjets forum, no redundancies yet!

[Adios]

They've asked for voluntary redundancies along with 3 or 4 other options, like job sharing, leave of absence, etc.

[ONCALL]

that sounds about right. the overall fractional industry is pretty slow right now.

[ThreeGreen]

I fly for Netjets North America. As of today no layoffs announced. They have received a very good response to the voluntary measures, saving 600 pilot jobs.

The company continues to evaluate their position so no guarantees for the future.

[N42ER]

are there any talks of fleet reductions?
I'm still trying to convert to JAA to work over there, I might have it done by late 2010...anyone want to venture a guess as to what NJE will look like then, in terms of hiring?

[buzzc152]

I would think no recruitment at NJE until 2012-13 earliest. We have the same voluntary options as NJA which are 3-4 year programs. You'll have to wait until all those who take up options are recalled to work before any real recruitment starts.

As for fleet reductions, I'm not 100% sure but I don't think there will be anything significant. Some of the very small fleets (G4 & F900) are going/gone but not much more than that unless the opportunity arises to dispose of a few bravos or something.

Of course, I hope I'm wrong and we recover in the next 24 months....doubt it though.

[wind check]

So CONCRETLY, what are the options offered to current netjets pilots please?

[redsnail]

Wind Check,

With all due respect, why do you want to know? If you're in NJE then you'll know what's on offer.

At the moment, every thing is voluntary. If the uptake is sufficient and only NTA management know what it is at the moment, then no one will be forced to leave.

[wind check]

I have also a question for you: Why don't you want to tell us what's nejets is offering to you guys? is that so bad? pprune is a forum to share information, we all know that netjets is struggling like hell and is offering seral options to try to cope with this crisis, just tell us! You or your colleagues. :ok:
We won't laugh at you, its just to inform us how's netjets really like. And to be honnest there is no magic option, basically you are offered long unpaid leave, am I wrong? :suspect:

[smallfry]

WindCheck.

As Redsnail has just said - Why do you want to know. Anyone in NetJets cannot help but know the options, and whilst they are not secret, they are of no value to people outside NJE. There is a range of options to suit people, from doing nothing to taking full redundancy. Generally they are generous by industry and outside industry standards.

[clanger32]

I'm not NJE, but certainly from the little I know NJE have been exceptional in the offers they've made. I'm aware that there's four or five "options". However, unless you ARE NJE, then really it's of very little consequence. The only reason I can think of as to why an 'outsider' would want to know, would be in order to judge NJE as an employer in context of wanting to work for them if/when hiring re-starts. On that basis, you need know no more than the offers are very good.

[betpump5]

redsnail/small fry,

out of interest why are you both so defensive? You are absolutely right in the fact that you do not have to divulged the information. But to use the argument "What use is it to an outsider" is nonsensical.

If we all took that approach to questions asked on pprune by wanabees or our professional peers, it would not be much of a forum!

As an 'outsider', I would like to know the options that have been laid out to your door - for a variety of reasons. Like observing other methods airlines are employing to safeguard the futures of their workforce. Understanding flows of potentially redundant pilots who with their type ratings, the airlines they may flock to etc. Purely out of interest if nothing else.

Like I said, you have the liberty to divulge nothing but I am slightly surprised at the response given to windcheck.

[Flintstone]

.........I can't really see the need for secrecy. Just about every NJE pilot I've spoken to since the options were issued has wanted to do nothing else but talk about them in great detail, to me and others, which puts it firmly in the public domain so here goes..........

Option One, voluntary redundancy. Payoff 10 months salary for one year of employment plus 4 months salary for each extra year to a maximum payoff equivalent to 24 months salary.

Option Two. Long Term Leave Of Absence, three years. 50% salary for the first six months, 20% for months 7-24 then 10% for the third year.

Option Three. Job sharing, year on/off. 60% salary per year.

Option Four. Leave of absence. Length by mutual agreement, salary on a sliding scale between 0% for three months off and 33% if off between one and two years.

Option Five. Temporary part-time. Work between 120 and 150 days a year on a sliding scale of 60-75% salary. (Work pattern a bit like a decent biz-jet job really ;) )

I think options one and five give no protection from enforced redundancy whereas the others mean you can't be laid off once on the scheme. I'm sure I've been told more detail but these days while the flesh it still willing the mind is weak.

[Adios]

NetJets have a confidentiality clause in their contracts, which is a compelling reason not to divulge ongoing contractual offers in a public forum to people outside the company. It's even more compelling since some people know the real names behind some of the Pprune IDs.

I have not read the offers, but a few insiders have shared a few details. Perhaps the reason people are defensive is because they are loyal to NetJets and don't want to air the company smalls in public. You don't have to like their stance, but it is their choice to withhold. If curiosity is killing you, next time you meet one of their pilots in a bar, buy the drinks, lots of drinks!

There is a PR side to this as well. Why would you bite the hand that you hope will keep feeding you and possibly contribute to an already worsening sales trend?

[wind check]

Thank you flintstone :ok:

[RNeighbor]

Well Windcheck, now that you know the options, are you much better informed? I really don't think so. Enough was said already before. All NJE pilots (except maybe Flintstone) want to stay with NJE and then you need to keep certain detailed information within the company respecting the confidentiality clausule before information goes 'the wrong way' if any.

Fully agree with you, Adios....

[Flintstone]

All NJE pilots (except maybe Flintstone)..........

Are you sure you've paid attention? ;)



All NJE pilots.....want to stay with NJE

Er, except maybe the ones who have been asking me if I know of any jobs going elsewhere? About eight at the last count.



....are you much better informed? I really don't think so.

What a bizarre thing to write :O He/she knew nothing and now knows most of the deal so ummmm, I'd say he/she does know more.

[Flymee 2 Da Moon]

I think options one and five give no protection from enforced redundancy whereas the others mean you can't be laid off once on the scheme.

Flinty,

I generally like your candid honesty and matter of fact responses and, as you can tell, I do not go to print so often, but accuracy is imperative!

I think by virtue of giving up your job under the VR policy (option 1), you will not need to worry about protection from compulsory measures!

Option 5 sounds correct but I think there is one other that encroaches on the danger zone.

Mis-information is no information.

I am not trying to be awkward in giving info (or not) but I tend to agree with the discretion of other employees. The 'need to know' policy can be very effective outside the military as well.

Please work on your accuracy in order to give your posts serious credibility.:=

See me, 3/5.





:mad:

[Flintstone]

I think*options one and five give no protection from enforced redundancy whereas the others mean you can't be laid off once on the scheme. I'm sure I've been told more detail but these days while the flesh it still willing the mind is weak.

*emphasised this time around for the hard of reading.

;) 3/5 for comprehension.





PS I was tempted to post the whole document but that might be going too far.

[Merritt]

Originally Posted by Flintstone
I think*options one and five give no protection from enforced redundancy whereas the others mean you can't be laid off once on the scheme

Im sure some of you have spoken to employment solicitors already, but this does not sound legal. To make large redundancies, employees need to be selected based on many areas / criteria. This criteria needs to establish whether groups of employees are undertaking similar work to their colleagues. If they are (and clearly they are if they are also pilots), then everyone must be part of that selection pool & other criteria must be looked at such as experience etc.

Clearly if a complete fleet is being disposed of, then everyone on that fleet instantly has an increased risk.

My understanding is that you cannot simply be 'ring fenced' from redundancy because you have selected one of their 'options'.

I will add at this point that I am NOT an employment solicitor but I would definitely be discussing this with one before you opt for an 'option' & then thinking you are safe.

IMHO of course. Good luck guys, I hope it works out for all of you. :ok:

Steve