Somali pirates hijack ship; 20 Americans aboard

[chopper2004]

Somali pirates hijack ship; 20 Americans aboard

http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/nws/p/ap_logo_106.png (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/ap/brand/SIG=br2v03/*http://www.ap.org)
Buzz Up
Send (http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=AooAYH4ZCC7sPihk46TFB4wV6w8F;_ylu=X3oDMTBzNzNtdm90BHBvc wMxBHNlYwN0b29scy10b3AEc2xrA3NlbmQ-/SIG=18ntrrlpt/**http%3A//m2f.news.yahoo.com/mailto/%3Fprop=news%26locale=us%26url=http%253A%252F%252Fnews.yahoo .com%252Fs%252Fap%252F20090408%252Fap_on_re_af%252Fpiracy%26 title=Somali%2Bpirates%2Bhijack%2Bship%253B%2B20%2BAmericans %2Baboard%26h1=ap/20090408/ap_on_re_af/piracy%26h2=T%26h3=515)
Email (http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/SIG=18ntrrlpt/**http%3A//m2f.news.yahoo.com/mailto/%3Fprop=news%26locale=us%26url=http%253A%252F%252Fnews.yahoo .com%252Fs%252Fap%252F20090408%252Fap_on_re_af%252Fpiracy%26 title=Somali%2Bpirates%2Bhijack%2Bship%253B%2B20%2BAmericans %2Baboard%26h1=ap/20090408/ap_on_re_af/piracy%26h2=T%26h3=515)
IM (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090408/ap_on_re_af/piracy;_ylt=AvM9daZk5fWZK.bamwK5Kf0V6w8F;_ylu=X3oDMTBxcHNoMj Q5BHBvcwMzBHNlYwN0b29scy10b3AEc2xrA2lt)

Share (http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=AibUoHQgVmEzciFfZoBZyxgV6w8F;_ylu=X3oDMTB0ODlhaGE3BHBvc wM0BHNlYwN0b29scy10b3AEc2xrA3NoYXJl/SIG=15sdo80uk/**http%3A//del.icio.us/post%3Furl=http%3A//news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090408/ap_on_re_af/piracy%26title=Somali%2Bpirates%2Bhijack%2Bship%253B%2B20%2B Americans%2Baboard%2Bon%2BYahoo%2521%2BNews)
Delicious (http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=Ah2qKj7XAjorKL.mgpIH9hcV6w8F;_ylu=X3oDMTExN2pwZHIxBHBvc wM1BHNlYwN0b29scy10b3AEc2xrA2RlbGljaW91cw--/SIG=15sdo80uk/**http%3A//del.icio.us/post%3Furl=http%3A//news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090408/ap_on_re_af/piracy%26title=Somali%2Bpirates%2Bhijack%2Bship%253B%2B20%2B Americans%2Baboard%2Bon%2BYahoo%2521%2BNews)
Digg (http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=Aszlsite_d.ZrXKp9na7q6kV6w8F;_ylu=X3oDMTBzanB2aWswBHBvc wM2BHNlYwN0b29scy10b3AEc2xrA2RpZ2c-/SIG=134r1220l/**http%3A//digg.com/submit%3Fphase=2%26url=http%3A//news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090408/ap_on_re_af/piracy)
Facebook (http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=Ar8W_fqF5tdTWZwjTcnFumEV6w8F;_ylu=X3oDMTEwZGNwbGE2BHBvc wM3BHNlYwN0b29scy10b3AEc2xrA2ZhY2Vib29r/SIG=161b0fo75/**http%3A//www.facebook.com/sharer.php%3Fu=http%3A//news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090408/ap_on_re_af/piracy%26t=Somali%2Bpirates%2Bhijack%2Bship%253B%2B20%2BAmer icans%2Baboard%2Bon%2BYahoo%2521%2BNews)
Fark (http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=AgcpKK3WXpIt2cHlrlvYJwcV6w8F;_ylu=X3oDMTBzNm01MXI2BHBvc wM4BHNlYwN0b29scy10b3AEc2xrA2Zhcms-/SIG=165fu1c0m/**http%3A//cgi.fark.com/cgi/fark/farkit.pl%3Fu=http%3A//news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090408/ap_on_re_af/piracy%26h=Somali%2Bpirates%2Bhijack%2Bship%253B%2B20%2BAmer icans%2Baboard%2Bon%2BYahoo%2521%2BNews)
Newsvine (http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=AmTRFI3_rnWH959e4rrlBxgV6w8F;_ylu=X3oDMTEwOWVkdnVlBHBvc wM5BHNlYwN0b29scy10b3AEc2xrA25ld3N2aW5l/SIG=169d81ts9/**http%3A//www.newsvine.com/_tools/seed%26save%3Fu=http%3A//news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090408/ap_on_re_af/piracy%26h=Somali%2Bpirates%2Bhijack%2Bship%253B%2B20%2BAmer icans%2Baboard%2Bon%2BYahoo%2521%2BNews)
Reddit (http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=AlYAxiMozczu6gdaGPLnc0wV6w8F;_ylu=X3oDMTB2Nm5ndXFkBHBvc wMxMARzZWMDdG9vbHMtdG9wBHNsawNyZWRkaXQ-/SIG=12samdgji/**http%3A//reddit.com/submit%3Furl=http%3A//news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090408/ap_on_re_af/piracy)
StumbleUpon (http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=AvU4FgWYOxdNS2zYYFoE1U4V6w8F;_ylu=X3oDMTE0MTFkbmpmBHBvc wMxMQRzZWMDdG9vbHMtdG9wBHNsawNzdHVtYmxldXBvbg--/SIG=166eu23l1/**http%3A//www.stumbleupon.com/submit%3Furl=http%3A//news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090408/ap_on_re_af/piracy%26title=Somali%2Bpirates%2Bhijack%2Bship%253B%2B20%2B Americans%2Baboard%2Bon%2BYahoo%2521%2BNews)
Technorati (http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=AgfEzeAEgYR3AigfDPLqFuoV6w8F;_ylu=X3oDMTEzNmdqMGVxBHBvc wMxMgRzZWMDdG9vbHMtdG9wBHNsawN0ZWNobm9yYXRp/SIG=13foc160f/**http%3A//technorati.com/faves%3Fsub=addfavbtn%26add=http%3A//news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090408/ap_on_re_af/piracy)
Yahoo! Bookmarks (http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=Anm606p.0OGliFpRCkLBoxcV6w8F;_ylu=X3oDMTE1a3VkNXJpBHBvc wMxMwRzZWMDdG9vbHMtdG9wBHNsawN5YWhvb25ic3Bib28-/SIG=17enpit4d/**http%3A//myweb2.search.yahoo.com/myresults/bookmarklet%3Ft=Somali%2Bpirates%2Bhijack%2Bship%253B%2B20%2 BAmericans%2Baboard%2Bon%2BYahoo%2521%2BNews%26u=http%3A//news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090408/ap_on_re_af/piracy%26ei=UTF-8%26ts=1239204325)

Print (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090408/ap_on_re_af/piracy/print)
http://d.yimg.com/a/p/abc/20090408/videolthumb.f9d2a19acf9968b22d2bd045d28ddd64.jpg?x=213&y=141&xc=1&yc=1&wc=220&hc=146&q=85&sig=WBzzfeDNTKwkmVqOobS8Lw-- Play Video (http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/ynews;_ylt=AqPBFF_74MOoafCezmQIuRsV6w8F;_ylu=X3oDMTE5c3VqNmU zBHBvcwMxBHNlYwN5bl9yX3RvcF92aWRlbwRzbGsDYW1lcmljYW5zaGlq?ch =4226714&cl=12874623&lang=en) ABC News (http://news.yahoo.com/i/2614) – Americans Hijacked by Pirates


http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20090408/thumb.6e6ca33a233d496184b616294f16913f.kenya_piracy_germany_ xsa104.jpg?x=50&y=50&xc=19&yc=1&wc=94&hc=94&q=85&sig=lYoZ0DtRVwnEe_id3qrhuQ-- (http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Somali-Pirates/ss/events/wl/093008somaliapirates) Slideshow:Somali Pirates (http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Somali-Pirates/ss/events/wl/093008somaliapirates)
http://d.yimg.com/a/p/cbcca/20090407/videolthumb.5ee750178aab3c8fa2afdcae84c1a0be.jpg?x=50&y=50&xc=21&yc=1&wc=140&hc=140&q=85&sig=XCC2XtI1pPN8Gn8Y1JX4XQ-- Play Video (http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/ynews;_ylt=Av88yriJsCdb1ZaDlNEX9d4V6w8F;_ylu=X3oDMTFiNzZjZjB yBHBvcwM1BHNlYwN5bl9yXzNzbG90X3ZpZGVvBHNsawN2aWQtZWQtdGh1bWI-?ch=4226714&cl=12839102&lang=en) Video:Canadian navy helps boat ward off suspected pirates off Somali coast (http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/ynews;_ylt=AqsON1p3AJgewu0pQ5A.E7kV6w8F;_ylu=X3oDMTFhZnJqYzk 1BHBvcwM2BHNlYwN5bl9yXzNzbG90X3ZpZGVvBHNsawN2aWQtZWQtbGluaw--?ch=4226714&cl=12839102&lang=en) CBC.ca (http://news.yahoo.com/i/2608;_ylt=AmSz6lV6DeOTtcZFUxqBWdoV6w8F;_ylu=X3oDMTFiYXZjM2E2 BHBvcwM3BHNlYwN5bl9yXzNzbG90X3ZpZGVvBHNsawN2aWQtZWQtcHJvdmk-)
http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20090403/videolthumb.979a324c1bab18b89e749d9d40f055e1.jpg?x=50&y=50&xc=51&yc=1&wc=300&hc=300&q=85&sig=aDqCH5xoyglarLxHS9Kc9A-- Play Video (http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/ynews;_ylt=AtwX6rdE37tGHZTz85mqPc4V6w8F;_ylu=X3oDMTFiYm0yYnJ vBHBvcwM4BHNlYwN5bl9yXzNzbG90X3ZpZGVvBHNsawN2aWQtZXYtdGh1bWI-?ch=4226713&cl=12778183&lang=en) Kenya Video:Obama aunt can stay in US for now (http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/ynews;_ylt=As5atbOZdi0bJzbfX84qJtIV6w8F;_ylu=X3oDMTFhYzFqNnJ yBHBvcwM5BHNlYwN5bl9yXzNzbG90X3ZpZGVvBHNsawN2aWQtZXYtbGluaw--?ch=4226713&cl=12778183&lang=en) AP (http://news.yahoo.com/i/2521;_ylt=As2Dnuz08_ekBYgtS2O_H0sV6w8F;_ylu=X3oDMTFjbWRpYW11 BHBvcwMxMARzZWMDeW5fcl8zc2xvdF92aWRlbwRzbGsDdmlkLWV2LXByb3Zp )

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20090408/capt.4f00de5c3b374057af30f1b85f4e8d2f.kenya_piracy_cop801.jp g?x=213&y=136&xc=2&yc=1&wc=409&hc=261&q=85&sig=xRngsXpUFbyaAFxJHoUyVg-- (http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Somalia-pirates/photo//090408/481/4f00de5c3b374057af30f1b85f4e8d2f//s:/ap/20090408/ap_on_re_af/piracy) AP – This undated image shows the 17,000-ton container ship Maersk Alabama, when it was operating under the …


By KATHARINE HOURELD, Associated Press Writer Katharine Houreld, Associated Press Writer – 1 hr 21 mins ago
NAIROBI, Kenya – Somali pirates on Wednesday hijacked a U.S.-flagged cargo ship with 20 American crew members onboard, hundreds of miles from the nearest American military vessel in some of the most dangerous waters in the world.
The 17,000-ton Maersk Alabama was carrying emergency relief to Mombasa, Kenya, when it was hijacked, said Peter Beck-Bang, spokesman for the Copenhagen-based container shipping group A.P. Moller-Maersk. It was the sixth ship seized within a week, a rise that analysts attribute to a new strategy by Somali pirates who are operating far from the warships patrolling the Gulf of Aden.
The company confirmed that the U.S.-flagged vessel has 20 U.S. nationals onboard.
Cmdr. Jane Campbell, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Navy's Bahrain-based 5th Fleet, said that it was the first pirate attack "involving U.S. nationals and a U.S.-flagged vessel in recent memory." She did not give an exact timeframe.
When asked how the U.S. Navy plans to deal with the hijacking, Campbell said: "It's fair to say we are closely monitoring the situation, but we will not discuss nor speculate on current and future military operations."
It was not clear whether the pirates knew they were hijacking a ship with American crew.
"It's a very significant foreign policy challenge for the Obama administration," said Graeme Gibbon Brooks, managing director of the British company Dryad Maritime Intelligence Service Ltd. "Their citizens are in the hands of criminals and people are waiting to see what happens."
Brooks and other analysts interviewed by the AP declined to speculate on whether American military forces might attempt a rescue operation. A senior Navy official in Washington said the Obama administration was talking to the shipping company to learn "the who, what, why, where and when" of the hijacking.
The U.S. Navy confirmed that the ship was hijacked early Wednesday about 280 miles (450 kilometers) southeast of Eyl, a town in the northern Puntland region of Somalia.
U.S. Navy spokesman Lt. Nathan Christensen said the closest U.S. ship at the time of the hijacking was 345 miles (555 kilometers)away.
"The area, the ship was taken in, is not where the focus of our ships has been," Christensen told The Associated Press by phone from the 5th Fleet's Mideast headquarters in Bahrain. "The area we're patrolling is more than a million miles in size. Our ships cannot be everywhere at every time."
Somali pirates are trained fighters who frequently dress in military fatigues and use speedboats equipped with satellite phones and GPS equipment. They are typically armed with automatic weapons, anti-tank rocket launchers and various types of grenades. Far out to sea, their speedboats operate from larger mother ships.
Most hijackings end with million-dollar payouts. Piracy is considered the biggest moneymaker in Somalia, a country that has had no stable government for decades. Roger Middleton, a piracy expert at the London-based think-tank Chatham House, said pirates took up to $80 million in ransoms last year.
A NATO official said from Brussels that the alliance's five warships were patrolling the Gulf of Aden at the time of attack.
"That's where most of the shipping goes through and we can provide most of the protection in that vital trade route," said the official who asked not to be identified under standing rules.
The official said the taking of the crude-filled Saudi supertanker Sirius Star also happened in open water far off the Somali coastline. The Sirius Star was released in January,
NATO has five warships that patrol the region alongside three frigates from the European Union. The U.S. Navy normally keeps between five to 10 ships on station off the Somali coast. The navies of India, China, Japan, Russia and other nations also cooperate in the international patrols.
NATO sees piracy as a long-term problem and is planning to deploy a permanent flotilla to the region this summer.
On March 29, a NATO supply ship itself came under attack by Somali pirates who appear to have mistaken it for a merchant ship. The crew quickly overcame the attackers, boarded their boat and captured seven.
This is the second time that Somali pirates have seized a ship belonging to the privately held shipping group A.P. Moller-Maersk. In February 2008, the towing vessel Svitzer Korsakov from the A.P. Moller-Maersk company Svitzer was briefly seized by pirates.
Before this latest hijacking, Somali pirates were holding 14 vessels and about 200 crew members, according to the International Maritime Bureau.
IMHO it would be nice to see the elements of the Nighstalkers to go back to their anti surface vessels days from the adventures of the Persian Gulf in the 80s (Operation Praying Mantis and Prime Chance)

However what rotary assets do the nearest CG and DDG carry? Either newish MH-60R, or the conventional SH-60B/F armed with Hellfire hopefully if not, on the replenishment vessels, MH-60S Knighthawks hopefully with 7.62MM gimpy.

Plus theres a det of SEALS anyway nearby , and theres assets from CENTCOM/AFRICOM at Camp whatchacallit in Djibouti....

If the law of the seas are violated, then one must be able to enforce the law to the best possible extent. http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/smilies/icon_pirate.gif Got the assets and hoepfully the law, so USE THEM.

Get the SEALS to fast rope or if too dangerous, by Zodiacs or even sub if theres around. Then have the H-60s to provide cover

[Airborne Aircrew]

http://www.hqrafregiment.net/images/smilies/fishing.gif perchance?

[Navaleye]

Declare that any vessel carrying armed illegal combatants engaged in or believed to be engaged in acts of terrorism (aka piracy) mwill be attacked and sunk on siight. A Hellfire or Sea Skua would do the job nicely as would a a vulcan cannon.

Problem solved. Just sink a few, kill the terrorists and they will stop.

[fallmonk]

Maybe this will get sorted now that 20 yanks have been taken !

[Airborne Aircrew]

Maybe this will get sorted now that 20 yanks have been taken !See... For all the whining the world does about the USA the above statement demonstrates a very sad point. Numerous countries have had ships taken. Several, (if not all), have paid ransom to get their ships back. None, have done anything to get their ship or people back that would ensure the behaviour does not continue. They have all chickened out waiting for the Yanks to suffer a loss and have them do something about it. But if the USA had stepped forward before all we would have heard would have been the shrill whine of "Old Europe", tutting and clucking about how America should stop being a bully.:=

[Earl]

CNN reporting now that the crew have retaken control of the ship.
Pirates probably wish they had never screwed around with this one !!!!!
I really hope they American merchant marines used there head for a mop and their ass for a broom.
God bless them.

[fallmonk]

You wont catch me saying bully boys ,
personaly i think u should be involved ages a go , take someone to stand up to them and it looks like its only going to be the yanks or the asusies !

[Jumping_Jack]

1 captured, 3 'dropped' over the side! :ok:

[Gainesy]

Hopefully with a bouyancy aid, such as an anchor shackle.

[AIDU]

Surely an anchor shackle is too heavy to be used as a buoyancy aid. I think you will find that they would probably sink if they held on to it in the water.

[Earl]

I am willing to bet that water boarding is the least of this Somalis concern now ha ha.

[Gainesy]

AIDU
Good point, well made.:)

[Flap62]

I am usually flexible in these things but the link to military aviation in this thread is beyond tenuous.

[Airborne Aircrew]

I am usually flexible in these things but the link to military aviation in this thread is beyond tenuous

The Yanks are going to bomb it... But that's a secret, ok? ;)

[green granite]

How long before the Americans decide to use "bait ships" with marines on-board I wonder?

[Pontius Navigator]

How long before the Americans decide to use "bait ships" with marines on-board I wonder?

Q-ships I believe is the term.

How about a naturalist expedition with a few scientists - like 45 Commando or whoever :)

[MightyGem]

Perhaps this was one.

[Wensleydale]

PN,

If they go Commando, surely it will be a Naturist expedition?:uhoh:

[pulse1]

Perhaps this was one.

How many merchant vessels would have 20 Americans in the crew? Most vessels of this kind have a few European or American officers and the rest are seamen from third world countries.

Definitely a set up as far as I can see.

[Wiley]

If the ship had made it to one of the pirate harbours, I can only hope that the USN commander on the spot would have dragged out his copy of 'Black Hawk Down' to learn his lines - the very same ones the USN Admiral off the coast of Mogadishu used on the Somali warlord who told him it would take months of negotiations before the Americans would get their captured chopper pilot back.

And Airborne Aircrew, I have to say I think you hit the nail squarely on the head with your comments.

[GreenKnight121]

The ship was the Maersk Alabama.

It is operated by the Maersk Line... a US-based subsidary of the Danish company A.P. Moller-Maersk Group.

Maersk lines provides U.S. flag transportation, ship management and technical services to government and commercial customers.

U.S. Flag Transportation Service offers flexible and reliable end-to-end transport for any U.S. government cargo, from containers and military vehicles, to breakbulk and humanitarian food aid.
Maersk Line, Limited: Home (http://www.maersklinelimited.com/transportation.php)



In order to get the US government contracts, the ship(s) to be used must be US-flagged and crewed by US-nationals.

[Gargleblaster]

The Danish Navy (yeah, don't laugh, Maersk-SeaLand is the world's largest shipping company, and it's Danish) has ships patrolling the area and has avenged piracy numerous times and captured numerous pirates.

Regrettably when capturing the bastards, the problem has been: Hmmm, we serve the the navy of a civilised country that doesn't bend it's own laws or international treaties, what now ? And guess what, they've have had to let them go ! International law is simply inadequate for this !

There's always the plank.

They could have ben declared illegal pirates, flown somewhere, had dogs bite them, kept forever.

I do realise the ambivalience of my post: When are people bastards and can be shot / drowned / tortured / killed ? Guess we need to define what international democracy is ?

[Airborne Aircrew]

Guess we need to define what's international democracy is ?

International Democracy can only exist effectively when a standard moral code is agreed upon by all... Since we all have varying morals worldwide, (right down to whether a dog is a pet or an occasional menu item), the probability is low that a true International democracy can exist until we have interbred our cultural difference out of us...

See you all in a few hundred years... :}

[West Coast]

Word has it the US Captain offered up his IPOD, the Iranian navy has filed an injunction claiming first dibs.

[Wiley]

It's unlikely to happen in today's crazy mixed up world, but the US (and the whole world) would do well to resolve this ongoing problem the way Benjamin Franklin did at the turn of another century. It would be about as politically incorrect as things can get, but it's the only language the pirates will understand.

To assuage the conciences of the PC, they could give anyone living in every one of the pirate ports 24 hours to get out of town, then blow everything that floats or could float in those ports to very many pieces - and come back and do it again and again every time any ship is attacked. The fishermen (yeah, right) and their families would suffer, not being able to fish, but the problem would go away. (As would, temporarily at least, the bad guys if 24 hours warning was given before any such attack.)

[HercDriver]

Kill'm all let god sort it out!!!

Unfortunatly... most of the world agress to negotiate with terrorists and apease them.....

this will not end until armed forces in the area begin blowing the **** out of these guys on sight instead of capturing them... then letting them go....

[OFBSLF]

How many merchant vessels would have 20 Americans in the crew? Most vessels of this kind have a few European or American officers and the rest are seamen from third world countries.

Definitely a set up as far as I can see.
Nope. Protectionist legislation requires US flagged ships to have US crews.

Unfortunatly... most of the world agress to negotiate with terrorists and apease them.....

this will not end until armed forces in the area begin blowing the **** out of these guys on sight instead of capturing them... then letting them go....

Agreed. Our catch-and-release system doesn't work with pirates. Piracy will continue to increase until pirates start ending up dead.

[jammydonut]

US, British, Chinese, Indian etc. navies have surposed to have been offering specific protection in the area........where were they ?

[Gainesy]

Big area, small flotilla. Maybe they should think of starting a convoy system.

[M609]

Maybe they should think of starting a convoy system.

According to media reports here in Norway a few weeks ago, they allready have! A Norwegian tanker repelled pirates using firefighting gear, before the pirates where apprehended by soldiers in RIBs launched from the convoy escort. (The lady from the ships owner showed a diagram of the convoy layout used as well)

Might have been a one time deal I suppose

[larssnowpharter]

Nothing new about pirates.

Rome had the right idea when, in 67BC the citizens gave Pompey the job of sorting 'em out. Only took him a few months. Same strategy would work today given the political will.

[dazdaz]

The most logical end to this situation would be divers from the US warship drill holes in the life boat hull, thus sinking it. Whereby the pirates would have to ditch the AK's in order to swim. Simple solution.

[Diesel Fitter]

OK - now all you kill'm all let god sort it out!!!

Nuke'm , vulcanise and blow ém out of the water Yank military geniuses have finished your chest thumping........................

What's your next move boys?

I mean ...to get the Captain back?

Escalate to a Carrier Group maybe?

[dazdaz]

"The most logical end to this situation would be divers from the US warship drill holes in the life boat hull, thus sinking it. Whereby the pirates would have to ditch the AK's in order to swim. Simple solution."

Only feasible outcome. Unless they let the pirates sail away, having negotiated fuel.

Watch this space for my prediction.

ps. As of this post BBC Five live....German cargo ship has been boarded.

[SirToppamHat]

dazdaz

The most logical end to this situation would be divers from the US warship drill holes in the life boat hull, thus sinking it. Whereby the pirates would have to ditch the AK's in order to swim. Simple solution.

That's bizarre - I was thinking exactly that only this morning - I guess the divers would have to wear re-breathers (?) to avoid bubbles, but my guess is the US will come up with something far more complex to resolve the problem. A bit like the US solution to writing in space - spent millions inventing a special pen to work in zero gravity, but the Russians just used pencils!

STH

[exscribbler]

At least the USN had destroyer on scene within a day or two. How long would it have taken the RN, do you think? That's no criticism - you know I hold the RN in the highest regard - but merely reflecting on the shortage of hulls to do all the tasks expected.

[Brian Abraham]

Hate to do it to you TopHat :E
A bit like the US solution to writing in space - spent millions inventing a special pen to work in zero gravity, but the Russians just used pencils!
snopes.com: NASA Space Pen (http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp)

[wiggy]

:uhoh:" None, have done anything to get their ship or people back that would ensure the behaviour does not continue. They have all chickened out waiting for the Yanks to suffer a loss and have them do something about it"

Thanks for that Airborne Aircrew...:ugh: Look, just like in 1939 you chaps in places like Detroit jolly well need to keep up with what's going on in the World. For a starter :



http://http://www.lefigaro.fr/international/2009/04/10/01003-20090410ARTFIG00685-tanit-un-otage-francais-tue-dans-l-operation-de-liberation-.php (http://www.lefigaro.fr/international/2009/04/10/01003-20090410ARTFIG00685-tanit-un-otage-francais-tue-dans-l-operation-de-liberation-.php)

And if the language is a challenge or you if find accents frightening perhaps this will help:

http://http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/7994201.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/7994201.stm)


There's more going on in the World than "USA Today" or "Fox News" would have you believe...If you spent less time throwing tea in the harbour :ok:...or taxing French Cheese you'd have more time to read the International Press.

[172_driver]

I hope Captain Hancock (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U33Xg91HAlo) gets 'em!!!! :E

[Load Toad]

It's easy to jump to the solution of killing the pirates and I can understand doing it. Revenge, deterrent and that lovely satisfaction that a reactionary gets when he knows someone else somewhere has to take a human life in a brutal and messy manner.
But the fact that various governments are not jumping to that conclusion not only indicates that for all their faults governments are still at least trying to be civilised but maybe it just isn't that simple as sending a SSM straight at the pirates convoys of armed inflatable lilos and assorted fishing vessels and stolen boats.
Maybe there is the possibility of innocent friendly casualties? The French fired on a hijacked yacht today and killed a couple of pirates but also a hostage. I'm sure the pirates are smarting from that method of conflict resolution but the hostage is dead too - but no worries because it isn't your family is it?
Then maybe there is the issue that if the pirates were killed & if the hostages got off OK that somewhere else in the mess that is that part of Africa retribution would be taken on other innocents.
Of course our governments never negotiate with terrorists - but the what is the desired out come of the situation? To blow up a pirate and leave a few heavily injured with blood, snot and brains covering the remains of the pirate vessel as a warning to other pirates - or to safely get back the innocent crew, the vessel and the valuable cargo?
Of course it'd be great to get one of our navies Big Fancy Killing Systems and blow up some pirates but descending to their level of criminal nastiness might not actually help unless we can target them accurately with minimal chance of negative fall out.And in my experience god rarely gets involved and sorts it out - he leaves the messy business, burials and medical care, insurance payouts and legal issues n stuff to humans. Slacker that he is.

[Clockwork Mouse]

Piracy is an act of war, though not declared or practised by a sovereign nation. What they do is a war crime. Because of our "civilised" response to these life threatening acts of piracy they have us by the goolies.
The Somali piratism is a multi-million dollar growth industry and will thrive and prosper until it can be made not-worthwhile. That requires brave, concerted international policy decisions and firm action.
Resistance by targeted vessels should be promoted. That includes returning fire when fired upon.
Pirates detected at sea should be arrested and, if they resist, should be neutralised with force as necessary. They must not be permitted to get away with it. If some die in the process, that is their choice. Those captured alive should be tried by an international court and locked up. The financial assets of those behind the piracy should be identified and neutralised.
The more we pussy-foot around worrying about the human rights of these criminals and are fearful of injury to innocents caught up in it, the more we demonstrate our weakness and encourage their activities.
What an unedifying and depressing spectacle it is to watch an unpowered lifeboat with four pirates, so arrogant and confident of our weakness that they can thumb their noses at the whole world, not just the US. Is that acceptable? Not to me it aint.
If bold action is taken, regrettably some innocents will suffer in the short term and some may even die. However, what is the alternative? This is war. Colateral damage must be minimised but without it victory in the end cannot be achieved and more lives saved. For the sake of eventual peace let us have the guts to fight back.

[Load Toad]

Much of what you say I agree with & would support - but the collateral damage bit - do you mind offering up some of your loved ones first & if so - which ones?

[taxydual]

Offering up loved ones.

BBC NEWS | World | Frenchman dies in Somalia rescue (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/7994201.stm)

[Clockwork Mouse]

Load Toad,
No, of course I would not "OFFER UP" my loved ones. What is the logic behind your question?
In respect of the French action:
A spokesman for the French foreign ministry said Florent Lemacon and his wife Chloe were "repeatedly warned" not to travel through the area.

"It is difficult to understand why these warnings were not heeded," spokesman Eric Chevallier said.
Well done the French.

[Load Toad]

The logic behind the question is collateral damage is acceptable - but not yours.
If bold action is taken, regrettably some innocents will suffer in the short term and some may even die.

As for the French yacht - OK they were warned maybe the pirates will now communicate to other pirates and no French flagged vessels will be harmed. Might happen. Certainly does sound the French hostages were eccentric to say the least.

The fact that many countries now have naval vessels in the area, the fact that the US and other countries prefers to start by trying to negotiate, the fact that the pirates still manage to carry out their crimes, that fact that none are so far 'bought to justice' to me indicates a situation a little more complicated than go kill a few pirates. Wasn't their recently the case where the Indian navy attacked a pirate vessel that turned out to be a Thai fishing vessel that had hijacked? The Thai crew becoming collateral damage.

If there is a solution to this it isn't going to be different policies by different countries with different degrees of negotiation or action.

[taxydual]

I wonder if history will repeat itself.

First Barbary War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War)

'From the Halls of Montezuma, to the Shores of Tripoli.....' US Marine Hymn

[Clockwork Mouse]

LT
Your logic is faulty, both in your question and in the reasoning within your post.
There is a world of difference between "offering" and "accepting". My wife and I both served in the forces and my son is still serving, so my family have shown they have the guts and are willing to put themselves in harms way for the greater good.
We would prefer not to have to put ourselves in harms way to defend idiots, however.

[Diesel Fitter]

Really annoyed -
Now we are really straying from the name of this forum. What has this got to do with Military Aviation? Nothing.

I guess you don't feel the P3C Orion on station counts eh?:ugh:

[Diesel Fitter]

A dubious link at best. This has bugger all to with Military Aviation and should be moved to Jet Blast.

Then you really haven't grasped the dimensions of problem at all have you really annoyed?

A military surveillance plane in ops against the pirates has bugger all to do with mil aviation??

Get off the grass man.:ugh::ugh::=

[L J R]

As mil aviators, we are required to intercept and escort Blackjacks, Bears et al from our airspace BEFORE they do anything nasty, and send them on their way, what do the navy do....? Apparently I am missing something.



....so there is the mil aviation piece if it is lacking.

[Double Zero]

It's extremely tempting to think in terms of putting a decent gun ( 40mm should do ? ) & a team of Marines or similar on each ship going to the area, and I still think it should be so, & know the mounting snags etc; sod laws preventing armament of Merchant ships.

But I can think of one snag straight away; it behoves every ship's master to assist vessels in distress, and by the time one found out if they were bad guys posing or not they'd be awfully close, re. RPG's.

Also, note, the lot that attacked the Alabama had SatComms & knew how to handle a ship - lowering a lifeboat is not something a newbie could do.

That coupled with the more recent co-ordinated attack & capture of the U.S. Registered tug, point to Al Queda or someone doing a good job of impersonating them !

[BEagle]

In the past, it seems that the Russians weren't quite so squeamish about an 'eye for an eye' approach to justice....

In 1980s Beirut, Hezbollah kidnapped 4 Soviet diplomats and executed one of them. The KGB then snatched a relative of a Hezbollah leader, castrated him, stuffed his testicles in his mouth, shot him in the head and sent the body back to Hezbollah. The KGB included a message that other members of the Party of God would die in a similar manner if the three Soviets were not released.

Hezbollah promptly freed the remaining Soviet diplomats.

Crude, violent - but effective.

[Double Zero]

Beagle,

The way the Russians don't mess about with ANY niceties, ( I somehow doubt ' Hearts & Minds ' is one of their motto's, effective though it sometimes is ) - is exactly what worries me re. why are we bothering in Afghanistan when even the Soviets didn't hack it ...?

Back to the Somali piracy, either I'm missing the news at each moment it's mentioned, or things are being suppressed re. the captured tug, which would be understandable.

If any more aviation requirement seems missing re. the 4 chaps with Captain Phillips ( hope that's correct ) hostage, as has been complained, well the U.S. are kindly rectifying that.

They obviously read Pprune as what sounds by the description I heard like a Marines Assault Carrier, with Harriers, Helo's and hundreds of very p'd off Marines is heading their way...

It seems through the garbled reports that the 'pirates' - terrorists - have wheeled out their HQ ship; now, I hope to God we get the Captain back safe, but such a tempting target can't be ignored now or in the near future; I don't think I'd underwrite the insurance on that one !

[JT Eagle]

Where is the military aviation angle? Well for starters there are the helicopters of myriad types that have been involved again and again in chasing down pirates (in several cases firing guns to halt their skiffs). There has been everything from the Allouette III to the Ka-27 (Russian and Chinese) involved in these pursuits. The Boxer (CTF-151 flagship) has two of the new UH-1Y aboard as well as Cobras etc. There are Scan Eagle drones being launched from various ships, notably the USS Mahan. The US, French and Spanish are flying MPA out of Djibouti. The 'Times' reports that the French hostage rescue involved French commandos parachuting into the sea from a C-130: Death on the high seas as pirates put to the sword - Times Online (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6078514.ece)

... and so there's plenty of aviation out there, not to mention whoever it is who uses those Cat Pass KingAirs to drop the ransom money....

Some of the great ideas some PPruners and others have for dealing with the pirates could do with a bucket of facts thrown over them. Here are a few:

- Guns mounted on civil ships - how many guns and trained crew do you think a supertanker might need to provide all-aspect defence through a journey of several thousand miles? Hint - the Sirius Star had a crew of 20 and was longer than a 'Nimitz'-class CVN.

- The various navies have so far killed more sailors than the pirates. As well as the fishing boat sunk by the Indians, I believe the Russians killed some Yemeni fishermen

- The window of opportunity for catching pirates between the point they stop appearing to be fishermen and the point they are aboard a ship is around 30 minutes.

- Once they are aboard, how much "collateral damage" are some of the more gung-ho contributors here prepared to inflict in order to "kick the asses" of maybe 4 to 10 pirates? The lives of 20 sailors? A supertanker full of $200 million of crude oil that will wash up on the beaches? An LPG tanker? One full of phosphoric acid? A World Food Programme ship taking food that will go inland to the Somalis and other Africans not engaged in piracy?

Pirates are being caught on a regular basis and the wheels of justice are grinding into motion in a number of places, including France and Kenya. Unfortunately, some national rules (such as if German forces capture pirates they can only be tried in Germany if found attacking a German-flagged ship etc) need some working on. Better coordination might have stopped the Indians for example sinking a ship that everyone in the multinational forces knew was not pirate-held. But they weren't on the same net, so too bad for 15 Thai and Cambodian trawlermen (and the one who spent 6 days hanging on to a piece of wood).

This problem will only be fixed on land in Somalia, but I doubt any Western government has the stomach for that any time soon. Are any of you "blow them out of the water/bomb their ports" crowd ready to volunteer to pop into downtown Mogadishu and sort out a functioning government for them?

Didn't think so.

JT

[West Coast]

Beag's

That was the first thing I thought of when this kicked off.

[Double Zero]

When I mentioned arming merchant ships I was thinking in terms of say a 40mm with a low depression angle on the stern, and shoulder launched kit / plain LMG's around elsewhere, not fitting a ship out like a CVN.

It could be done with ships operating in the area, or likely to, and teams of Marines or similar hopefully supplied by those nations now providing warships.

I agree, and stated in my post, that telling good guys from bad on approach ( I'm a yachtmaster, but then nothing would induce me to sail around there anyway ! ) will be possibly the most difficult part.

The knowledge such kit & people were on ships should soon have it's own effect, hard to see how the bad guys could escalate with better weaponry if they want to capture the ship intact !

[Clockwork Mouse]

Arming merchant ships.
They don't need installed cannons. They need effective deterrent armament.
I'd have thought that a brick of 4 marines per significant ship, armed with rifles, 40mm gren launcher and a Barratt sniper rifle would do it. Any small craft approaching closer than 1nm not responding to radio contact gets a warning shot. After that it gets serious.
These b*st*rds don't want a battle. They want easy pickings.
Robust stop and search by warships of suspicious vessels would produce either flight, resistance or capitulation with corresponding reponse from the warship. Search would show that fishermen don't go out with RPGs and AKs.
This is war.

[Double Zero]

I agree, this IS war.

2 little points to consider; just after the Falklands, BAe tried hard to promote the SCADS - Shipborne Containerised Air Defence System, whereby with some forward planning a container ship could be fitted out as a poor man's carrier ( a lot more operational than Atlantic Conveyor, with packaged comms & maybe defensive aids ).

It would certainly put the willies up these characters if they tried to latch onto a container ship, to find a Harrier shooting off to greet them !

Pity it would have to be rockets, if British, but I expect they'd make the right impression...

More realistically, it seems to me ( armchair super-tactician ) that if ships with dangerous cargoes, gas etc, really have to pass through, they simply must have a Naval escort or even convoy system; a short term solution while the idiots are sorted out one way or another and convinced not to be naughty.

[Blacksheep]

In the long history of piracy, the only method that has ever succeeded against pirates has been to hunt them down and kill them. We need a total exclusion zone along the Somali coast at the 20 mile limit, with any Somali vessel venturing outside their territorial waters without specific prior notification being subject to sinking on sight. Who would patrol the exclusion zone? Any and every nation that has vessels sailing in the area - that is to say, any nation with a coastline of its own.

What is this to do with military aviation? Well, FEAF mounted highly successful anti-piracy patrols in SE Asia for decades. Now that those patrols have stopped, the pirates are back at full strength in the Malacca Straights and the South China Sea. The problem isn't confined to Somalia.

[Load Toad]

with any Somali vessel venturing outside their territorial waters without specific prior notification

Who should they notify - the ones that aren't pirates? Have you any idea how big the area is that has to be patrolled and policed? The number of ships / boats / fishing vessels etc involved?

The Somali coastguard / government / navy perhaps - you know - the ones that don't actually exist? The UN? How do they notify? How is it recorded? How is it checked & verified?

As much as it sounds nice to go bomb some pirates you aren't thinking through how complex that is and how unappealing the 'collateral damage' (innocent human deaths) that would occur in an area which is in chaos with no functioning government.

And I guess you'll soon moan if the prices of your commodities go up too.

[Double Zero]

I should pretty well expect ' commodity prices to go up ' if only a percentage of ships get through !!!

Have you read ' Black Hawk Down ' ?

What's your suggestion for dealing with this lot then, harsh language ?

[TheWizard]

It would appear not!!
BBC News (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7996087.stm)

According to initial reports, three pirates were killed in the operation to free Captain Richard Phillips. Another is in custody.

[brickhistory]

Well done to the captain for his actions.

And very well done to the operators who freed him.

[Earl]

I will add to this also.
Great job by the Captain and the US Navy.

[Double Zero]

That's the best news I've seen in a long time ! Bloody WELL DONE !

[fltlt]

"Imminent Danger," Weapons free, 3 dead pirates, Captain safe, Bloody Good Job!

[Blacksheep]

Who should they notify - the ones that aren't pirates? Have you any idea how big the area is that has to be patrolled and policed? The number of ships / boats / fishing vessels etc involved?Small fishing boats have no reason to venture more than twenty miles off-shore. Any larger vessels should notify the harbour master; and, if none exist at present, that's their problem, not ours. As to an idea how big an area we're talking about, well, its a bit smaller than the South China Sea and there's not so many small vessels and fishing boats about. And we're talking about small, fast boats with uncharacteristically large crews, approaching large cargo vessels without reasonable cause. Identification isn't as difficult as you imagine.

Since the Russian bulk carrier was boarded in the Malacca Straight in 1997; when the Russian crew captured the pirates, lined them up at the rail and machine-gunned them into the water; keeping one survivor and putting him back in his boat to go ashore and warn his friends, no Russian ship has been attacked by pirates in that region. It is necessary to speak to these loveable old rascals in their own language.

[BEagle]

According to initial reports, three pirates were killed in the operation to free Captain Richard Phillips. Another is in custody.

One wonders whether the pirate in custody will be 'having a little chat' with his custodians?

A few volts strategically applied to the dangly bits would provide a little encouragment, perhaps?

[MAINJAFAD]

More like a few thousand volts into his head in a few years time when he gets to met 'Old Sparky'.

[Avitor]

Hang 'em by the yarrd arrm.

me hearrties.

[Load Toad]

Bravo, I have no complaint - the pirates were seen threatening the life of the captain and three highly trained SEAL snipers shot three pirates a fourth being captured.

Gurnon stressed that while Phillips was rescued, more than 200 mariners remain captives at sea.

Not everyone has the capability of the US to protect its citizens.

I do like comments such as 'inform the harbour master' and 'have you read Black Hawk Down' - not since Battle comic.....classic. Maybe we can get a big policeman to give these hooligans a good clip around the ear, I blame the parents etc. Do you think that the three dead pirates were the Big Boss Pirate and the Head Man of the Criminal Organisation?

But solving the piracy situation in that area of the world - is going to take something more than SEAL snipers - something is going to have to be done about Somali itself - which will be a rather tricky.

[thedonnmeister]

Do something about Somalia..............SHOT NOT!!!!

[BEagle]

Having just returned from a conference in the US, it is abundantly clear to me that the US now attaches huge importance to the lives of its personnel on overseas service. This has now clearly been proven to include all US citizens. No asset will be spared in rescuing and recovering those being held hostage.

The message to the lawless ba$tards involved in piracy is simple; attack US personnel and you will be killed.

According to the BBC:

In Eyl, a pirate stronghold on the Somali coast, one self-proclaimed pirate said the US navy had become the "number one enemy".

"From now on, if we capture foreign ships and their respective countries try to attack us, we will kill them [the hostages]," he told the Associated Press by telephone.

The so-called pirate can rest assured that his location will already be known and his days are now numbered.

Congratulations to the US Navy SEALs! And to President Obama for his clear leadership.

Official U.S. Navy SEAL Information Web Site (http://www.seal.navy.mil/seal/)

[Romeo Oscar Golf]

Saw a note on BBC World News (or whatever it's called) stating that the captured pirate is "co-operating". Love it.
A few volts strategically applied to the dangly bits would provide a little encouragment, perhaps?
Surely not!

Hang 'em by the yarrd arrm.

Not until his finished co-operating.

when the Russian crew captured the pirates, lined them up at the rail and machine-gunned them into the water; keeping one survivor and putting him back in his boat to go ashore and warn his friends

Sounds like a good SOP.

[drustsonoferp]

Clockwork Mouse: Broadly speaking I agree. There must be a fightback against piracy - at present pirates are making millions in a chronically deprived country, which only serves as an advertisement of recruitment for others. I am not convinced that identification of pirate vessels at sea is wonderfully easy, but my major disagreement with you is on 'pussyfooting with human rights' as you put it.

Human rights must be regarded as universal and sacrosanct for us(which at this point is who ever will be standing against piracy) to have any international credibility. We cannot and must not ignore law as and when we feel like it to justify our own ends. We certainly cannot play the good guy policeman unless we play to the rules. Ignoring rules whilst in pursuit of our goal of securing free transit for our businesses and shipping will likely result in disaster at the first dubious scuttling or death.

Very much as world opinion galvanised against the west in the wake of the Iraq conflict. Any one with enough anger and possibly little to lose can be a suicide bomber, or wield an RPG or SA7, and so long as 'we' (broadly the west, esp US and UK) give sufficient moral ammunition away, we will have a problem somewhere in the world, even on our own shores.

The problem in Somalia must be firmly dealt with, but in accordance with the rule book. And no, I don't know enough about the rule book to make the logical next post.

[PPRuNe Pop]

If, as it has been suggested, the pirates are 'collecting' money for Al Queda then it is vital that military resources should always be on standby in the area. No question in my view.

[Load Toad]

Whether they are collecting for Al Chlamydia or not they have to be stopped - but what evidence is there to suggest that is what hey are doing.
- How are sums as large as the pay offs they have received in ransom deals being laundered?
The pirates had not killed a hostage up until now I understand - I hope they don't start looking for retribution.

[Double Zero]

Load Toad,

When I asked you if you've read ' Black Hawk Down ', you came back with a flippant answer about comic books...I get the impression that the film may come over that way - haven't seen it - but the book is most definitely worth your reading.

It certainly doesn't glamourise the Americans, and gives a huge amount of detail including mistakes made, names names, and their subsequent careers or lack thereof.

It does also describe what the Somali's are like; the main pastime is indulging in a drug called Khat, and local tribes shooting each other; until someone like the U.S. Turn up, when they all suddenly join forces, in thousands - shooters hiding among crowds as they know Westerners won't fire back, and women with a baby in one arm & gun in the other.

" How would they launder such large ransom fees ? " MMM, let me see, weapons and Al Queda require money, but I'm sure they've spent it on all those civic building projects, schools & hospitals which of course are everywhere...

Shooting a few 'footsoldiers' will barely register with them, their families have probably forgotten them by now; if they are 'pirates' then they can't really 'up the ante' if they want intact ships to steal.

If they are Al Queda led ( which even they would probably find difficult, probably easier just to take the Somali money and do the 'spectaculars' themselves ) then they may try more destructive methods, and would have anyway - as I say, if they can get their act together beyond waving AK-47's & RPG's around.

Seriously, BHD is a good, well written, detailed book; give it a try and you'll see what I'm getting at.

I don't read comics.

[Pontius Navigator]

Interestingly, Gordon Kent, in a novel, links AQ and the Somali pirates. I have given the book away but I think it was writter 3 years of so ago. In the story the pirates were targetting a US BG with predictable consequences.

[Romeo Oscar Golf]

I do hope that you, dustona twerp, are not invoved in real fissticuffs nor in the policy pertaining to them. Admirable words but totally unrealistic. They belong to the University debating lobbies where it is well understood that they have no place in the real world.

[barnstormer1968]

The book blackhawk down, is indeed a good read. There is also a documentary/reconstruction called "the true story of blackhawk down" which is also very good, and is very factual. I have seen the film, and while it is obviously a "film" meant for audiences, there are also some very good moments included. One scene sticks in my mind, where one of the rebels (how they are described in the film, despite being in their own country) is talking to a captured pilot. The rebels case for hating Americans seems perfectly clear and sensible* while the US pilot has no good reason for being there**

*This does not mean that I agree with him.
**I'm not suggesting that any military person always thinks that they have a just reason for what they do (different from still always doing your best though), or that, even if you did have a good reason, then this may not be the ideal time to start the debate:}

THREAD DRIFT
Other good documentary/reconstructions to look out for are: the true story of BAT 21, which is more dramatic than the film, even though is it factual, and of course is really a quite different story; Operation Anaconda, the battle for Robert's ridge.
THREAD DRIFT OFF

[Wader2]

I do hope that you, dustona twerp, are not invoved in real fissticuffs nor in the policy pertaining to them. Admirable words but totally unrealistic. They belong to the University debating lobbies where it is well understood that they have no place in the real world.

ROG, I disagree. I think the OP was quite right. The US had two choices: one was to have the Seals attempt a covert boarding at night shooting every pirate. The other, as they did, was to cover the priates until they threatened to execute the hostage.

An extension of the former method would be to shoot up every small high-speed craft that was clearly not fishing. The alternative is to mark every such vessel and place defensive teams on ships in the immediate vicinity.

The next interesting thing is what they do with their prisoner. Diego Garcia would seem a good spot. If no charges are prefered then the prisoner would be free to make his own way home :)

[Load Toad]

Well, four more ships hijacked in the last 48 hours. On one 22 Filipino seamen who I doubt will get the same attention as the US crew. Whatever.

I have read BHD and a hell of a lot of other bewks. For all the good it has done me. Sarcasm intended.

Many of the ideas on here (and note I am not wholly against using force against people who threaten or harm others especially innocent others) are based firmly on the premise 'It is a nice feeling from far away to think of shooting stuff and turning people into mince; especially when I have minimal knowledge or experience of the situation - for surely this would make it all better.'

Well - it doesn't - not by itself and barring a massive increase in military forces and a massive increase in control of shipping the pirates will still find rich pickings and the pirates bosses will get even more $$$. So unless we can find a way to deal with Somalia - I predict this carrying on with a good while with an increase in this 'collateral damage' - which is perfectly OK of course unless it is our collateral damage.

[Clockwork Mouse]

LD

'It is a nice feeling from far away to think of shooting stuff and turning people into mince; especially when I have minimal knowledge or experience of the situation - for surely this would make it all better.'

Please enlighten us as to the extent of your own personal knowledge or experience of the situation which renders your opinions so superior to ours. And if, as you say, "I am not wholly against using force against people who threaten or harm others especially innocent others", then what is your problem? Is it that they were not mirandarized first? Perhaps the Seals didn't shout "halt three times or I fire" before pulling the trigger.

There is a serious failure of logic in your posts, Toad, though your heart is in the right place.

[GPMG]

Are there any E-boats or PT boats still lying around, could they not be dusted off and given a lick of paint?


or invest in a few of these?
YouTube - UK Royal Marines testing Combat boat 90 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHmUvI1-R0U)

Is there any international law to stop western navies from patrolling the route and running a convoy system? Surely the millions it would cost would be far less than the money lost to the Pirates?

[eastern wiseguy]

stop western navies


Based on the previous posts...just let the Sovi....Russian Merchant Marine do it!:ok:

[pr00ne]

eastern wiseguy,

Excellent logic, all except for that tiny little annoying factoid of all those RUSSIAN hostages currently held by the Pirates.....................................

[Load Toad]

There is a serious failure of logic in your posts

OK - so how is my logic flawed? I suggest violence is a last resort - that used without caution will lead to innocent deaths both in the offensive term (which should be dropped from our vocabulary) collateral damage and in terms of retribution killings. And I suggest that some posters have an over simplified view of the situation regarding Somali / Somalian piracy. I further suggested that the answer lay within the massive issue of trying to sort something out in Somali.

So my logic is flawed is it?

Pentagon looks to move battle against pirates ashore - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/14/obama.pirates/index.html)

Pentagon planners are preparing a variety of options for dealing with Somali pirates, and a United Nations resolution gives them the authority to conduct operations inside Somalia.

"The ultimate solution for piracy is on land," said Vice Adm. William Gortney, commander of U.S. Naval Forces Central Command and the Combined Maritime Forces.

"Piracy around the world stems from activity where there is lawlessness, lack of governance, economic instability; things of that nature. And wherever you have that, you're going to have criminal activity at sea," he said at a Monday briefing.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Monday the military alone can't solve the problem.

"There is no purely military solution to it," he said at the Marine Corps War College in Quantico, Virginia. "And as long as you've got this incredible number of poor people and the risks are relatively small, there's really no way in my view to control it unless you get something on land that begins to change the equation for these kids."

The fight at sea can be treacherous. The area involved off the coasts of Somalia and Kenya, including the Gulf of Aden, is more than 1.1 million square miles -- four times the size of the state of Texas.

The military has aerial surveillance and unmanned drones, but even a limited strike risks injuring Somali civilians.

I can't see a great error in what I've posted - apart from not shouting 'Yee Haa lets go shoot me some pirates'.

HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/PIRACY_FEW_OPTIONS?SITE=VANOV&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)

Why Somali piracy is booming - by former hostage victim - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/somalia/5142032/Why-Somali-piracy-is-booming---by-former-hostage-victim.html)

[brickhistory]

With the accent, I realize you are at a cultural disadvantage, but


apart from not shouting 'Yee Haa lets go shoot me some pirates'.



is actually pronounced "Yee haw, let's go shoot me some pirates."

Words matter...

[Double Zero]

Brickhistory,

I suspect LT thinks no-one else here has ever considered the negative points of military action, and has not noticed almost everyone has said any violent act/s are a last resort, either during sorting out Somalia politically or simply because that appears impossible.:ugh:

He also thinks we're all armchair reactionaries with no experience.

I completely admit I have never been to war personally.

I have 'only' been present when 5 people died , on 4 separate occasions; they were all British, working as either Test Pilots or engineers, trying to develop defences for our countries.

It might also be of interest to Load Toad to know that when presented with a particularly nasty anti-personnel weapon ( hard to believe I know, but this while militarily effective would have been, and it was not explosive, chemical or bacteriological ! ) - we and the test range staff basically refused and said it was a step too far.

I am of course certain that Al Queda & the Somali's have the same principles.

Meanwhile, remember, pirates have mothers & womenfolk too; so bring plenty of ammo' ! :E

[Romeo Oscar Golf]

All opinions are, I'm sure welcome, it's that which provokes discussion. The fact that we do not all agree merely mirrors life in general.
I cannot see what is wrong with 'Blow 'em up and let god decide' nor do I consider it B/S. I also believe I should be able to "blow up" the criminal who breaks into my house and threatens me and my family, but that's another discussion.
On the more practical side why do the shipping companies not put armed personnel on their ships (I know - it costs)
If AQ are proven to be the main beneficiaries of the piracy then perhaps the "war on terror" be expanded and the "good" guys provide a significant naval and air force operation to cover this undeniably large area. With regard the cost it could be offset against the huge cost of the often pointless exercises, and would provide realistic and more productive training-wouldn't it?
I do not argue or disagree with the experts with regard the bigger picture, but we all know that taking action inside Somalia is just not going to happen, however taking out the pirates and their mother ships might just make a difference.
Only my thoughts, not a Staff College submission.

[whiowhio]

Would have thought just the job for a US Fleet "Carrier Task Force" or three. No idea of the return range of carrier fighter aircraft these days? Presumably the E-2 Hawkeye would come to star - turn around the Theodore Roosevelt?!

Rod.

[Romeo Oscar Golf]

Is this the way to do it?



http://piratebook.*************/2009/04/somali-pirate-threatens-to-sue-germany.html
Modern Day Pirate Tales (http://piratebook.*************/)


Notes on the world of piracy from journalist Daniel Sekulich.






Tuesday, April 14, 2009

A Somali "pirate" threatens to sue Germany (http://piratebook.*************/2009/04/somali-pirate-threatens-to-sue-germany.html)


The ongoing issue of how to effectively prosecute those individuals suspected of having committed piracy on the high seas has had an odd twist added to things. According to EUbusiness.com (http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/1239729421.77), a Somali identified as Ali Mohamed A.D. had his lawyer file a lawsuit in Germany on Tuesday for, "what he called his inhumane treatment since being handed over to Kenyan authorities", according to court documents. His lawyer, Oliver Wallasch, is said to be seeking 10,000 Euros ($13,300 US) from the German government for damages incurred after his transfer to Kenya.

Ali Mohamed A.D. was one of nine suspected pirates captured by the German navy after a March 3 incident involving the MV Courier, a freighter owned by a shipping firm based out of Hamburg. As detailed by Speigel Online (http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,616760,00.html), the ship was sailing about 57 nautical miles off the Yemeni coast en route from Bremen to the UAE when it was approached by a speedboat. After taking evasive manoeuvres, individuals in the small craft opened fire on the Courier with automatic weapons and a bazooka. Though the attackers failed to stop the ship, they continued their aggressive actions until an American helicopter - responding to the freighter's Mayday - arrived on the scene and the skiff broke off its attack and headed towards Somalia.

As the Spiegel report continues: "The German frigate Rheinland-Pfalz, alarmed by the mayday call, had also sent a helicopter. The German chopper shot two salvos across the bow of the presumed pirates, but the bandits were not impressed. Only when the frigate approached close to their skiff did the Somalis surrender. After being taken into custody, the group's leader told the Germans that he was a human trafficker from Somalia, and that the weapons were for 'self-defense'."

The Somalis were later handed over to Kenyan authorities for prosecution, possibly sparing Germany the problem of how to handle the legal end of things themselves when it comes to piracy. But if they hoped they'd heard the last from the Courier's attackers, this lawsuit proves otherwise.

Ali Mohamed A.D. denies involvement in piracy in his lawsuit, which he bases on the deprivations that may await him in the Kenyan prison system. Jails like the Shimo la Tewa Prison in Mombasa are noted for their harsh conditions, though one has to wonder whether Ali Mohamed A.D. considered the possibility he'd end up in such a place before he set out with weapons to attack a merchant vessel.

His lawyer is likely looking at that the fact the commander of the Rheinland-Pfalz may have overlooked a crucial aspect of a criminal investigation: the securing of evidence necessary to prove the allegations. As Spiegel says about what happend after the Somali suspects were apprehended, "The frigate captain then proceeded to demonstrate that the German navy, though effective at sea, is relatively unversed in the requirements of modern criminal law. The crew was taken into custody, the skiff was searched, and the weapons found in it were seized and then sunk in the ocean - for security reasons, as the captain put it. Since then, the most important pieces of evidence - three bazookas, a Tokarev pistol, a carbine and a machine gun - have been lying on the seafloor of the Gulf of Aden, at an estimated depth of 1,800 meters (5,900 feet). The frigate captain's unauthorized disposal of the pirates' weapons has led to bad blood between the German government and the Kenyan judiciary. 'The criticism was repeatedly made that important items used in the crime - in other words, the weapons used - where thrown into the ocean,' read a cable from the German Embassy in Kenya." Oops.

Germany is not the only nation worrying about what to do with pirates once captured, and we've yet to find out what will become of the surviving Somali captor of the Maersk Alabama's captain, Richard Phillips. I hope the U.S. takes a more thorough approach in order to bring the full weight of the law against the suspected pirate. But I can't help but feel that we'll see more of these frivolous lawsuits as more pirates are apprehended.

Addendum: A comrade of Ali Mohamed A.D., one Mohamud Mohamed H., has filed an injunction with the Berlin administrative court aiming to force the German foreign ministry to cover the costs of a public defender in Kenya.

Posted by Daniel Sekulich at 11:20 PM (http://piratebook.*************/2009/04/somali-pirate-threatens-to-sue-germany.html) http://www.blogger.com/img/icon18_edit_allbkg.gif (http://www.blogger.com/post-edit.g?blogID=6468251671241647212&postID=6840478328277974073)

[wiggy]

More bad/inconvenient news for some, from CNN World .....

French navy seizes 11 suspected pirates - CNN.com (http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/04/15/pirates.captured/index.html?iref=mpstoryview)

[dazdaz]

"The most logical end to this situation would be divers from the US warship drill holes in the life boat hull, thus sinking it. Whereby the pirates would have to ditch the AK's in order to swim. Simple solution."

All you young Officer's take note....The reason of this lesson, I posted without the full situation analysis. But you must admit, a very viable solution without all the facts.

My next post, Iran and to sort it.

[US Herk]

On the more practical side why do the shipping companies not put armed personnel on their ships (I know - it costs)

I believe it's in violation of international maritime law to have armed merchant vessels...what a navy bloke told me anyway, so take it for what it's worth. But it seems plausible given that it is such an obvious answer to the problem...

Have heard rumours (and this is, after all, a rumour network), that a Blackwarter-type operation has purchased a destroyer from Russia...perhaps armed escort is the answer for unarmed ships?

I think a good Q-ship is in order...merchant vessel loaded w/Marines or similar. :E

[Wiley]

It goes without saying that anything done to resolve this will have to be legal and above board. With that in mind, surely a law could be enacted that no vessel may approach within 'n' NM (or parts of a NM) of another in waters within a designated area, ie, inside a designated lat/long box and any that does will be considered hostile and WILL be fired on by escorting warships or aircraft after (or before!) appropriate warnings are issued.

A Notice to Mariners would cover it. To make any such system work, a convoy system would have to be implemented (something I suggested months ago here) and any commercial shipping company unwilling to suffer the costs and delays of joing such convoys could sign an indemnity and suffer the consequences.

I know there is huge resistance to convoys - there always has been. In WW One, (1917) after enormous resistance from shipping companies, convoys were at least forced upon them and losses to German U Boats went from 20% to .1%. The 20% loss rate went very near to causing Britain to lose the war at that late stage, and was one of the main reasons Haig pushed the British Army into the absolute bloodbath that was Paschendaele - (to capture the Belgian U Boat bases). [This, despite the fact that the majority of U Boats were operating from German ports, which wasn't appreciated at the time.]

We're at war again now. A half-arsed war, to be sure, with criminals rather than a nation state. But it's a war none the less, and it needs to treated as such by our political leadership. The other side might have grievances, as (what we would call) the bleeding hearts have pointed out, but so did the Japanese and the Germans in the last World War, and very valid ones.

A lot fewer people will be killed if someone (we all know there's only one 'someone') takes this problem on and resolves it properly than if it's allowed to drag on as it has been to date. That might involve a fleet (or an air armada) entering two or three ports and visiting some rather terminal grief upon anything afloat in those ports. Some bystanders and hostages will almost certainly die should that happen, but far fewer than will if this goes on as it has.

And any pirate who kills any hostage needs to understand that he will be sought out and killled - along with quite possibly anyone around him, (as happens now in Pakistan) - no matter how long it takes.

Question is: do we have the will?

[BEagle]

Allez la France!

Good to see that they captured these suspected thieves and are not prepared to surrender to their brigandry!

Taking out terrorist weapons caches in situ and noting the effect of collateral damage was, I understand, a British policy during the EOKA terrorism in Cyprus? It was intended to ensure that names of suspected terrorists were made known to the authorities pretty smartish.....

[Double Zero]

Entering the bad guy's harbours by water seems dodgy to me; more of a job for helo's & Harriers !

I did mention a while ago the 1980's BAe concept of SCADS, a container ship a la Atlantic Conveyor but with much better runway ( with containers each side mostly for weather protection / general cargo ), comms' & systems, all packaged in containers.

Now there's a Q-Ship !

[herkman]

I have very good reason to believe, that the USN was asked to solve this problem with one hand tied behind their back. The area commander I believe was told that the SEALS could not take out the pirates, without the hostage being in complete danger.

Apparently the first time that the captain dived into the sea, they were prepared and able to take them out. Apparently they could not get the OK from the USA to do so.

On the second attempt of the captain to get away, the area commander took it on himself to give the snipers the OK to fire. Only three rounds were fired the forth guy could not be seen, and when he saw what had happened, gave himself up.

How many wars do we have to fight, with one hand tied behind our back, and good men get killed because of this. Just so the politicians can look good.

A good job was done but it turns out could have been done two days earlier.

I am sure that someone in the know will confirm these facts.

Regards

Col

[GreenKnight121]

Except that they are wrong.

Gortney, the commander of U.S. Naval Forces Central Command, said the White House had given "very clear guidance and authority" to take action if Phillips' life was in danger.Navy Seals Rescue U.S. Captain, Kill Pirates | NBC Washington (http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/us_world/NATLSomali-Pirates-Americans.html)

It was early Wednesday when the pirates boarded Maersk Alabama.

On Wednesday, the Navy sent a destroyer, the USS Bainbridge, chugging toward the Maersk Alabama. By Thursday, its crew, coached by FBI hostage negotiators, was talking to the pirates.

It was about midnight on the ocean, Thursday turning to Friday, when Phillips made a break for it.
He jumped out of the lifeboat and began to swim for his life. One of the captors fired an automatic weapon — perhaps at Phillips, perhaps only as a warning, either way enough to show that the pirates meant business. Phillips swam back to the lifeboat.

The USS Bainbridge was still several hundred yards away from the lifeboat — not nearly close enough to save him on his escape attempt.

It was early Friday night in Washington, Saturday morning over the Indian Ocean, when President Barack Obama authorized the Defense Department to use military force to rescue the sea captain, according to administration officials who spoke on condition of anonymity.

And as the standoff entered its fourth day, the president broadened the order so that it encompassed more military personnel and other equipment that had arrived in the Indian Ocean.

Then, at about noon Eastern time on Sunday, early evening on the water, they saw something else: One of the pirates was aiming at Phillips' back. The commander of the Bainbridge gave the order for Navy snipers to fire.Three Flawless Shots Kill Trio of Pirates | NBC New York (http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/us_world/NATLHow-Five-Days-of-High-Seas-Drama-Unfolded.html)


Phillips' escape attempt was just a few hours after the Bainbridge arrived... the ship was still too far away to try anything... even if the SEALs had been aboard at that time!

They weren't there until Saturday... a full day later!!



In Washington that Friday evening, Obama received two national security briefings on the situation. Based on those reports, the White House said, the president gave "the Department of Defense policy guidance and certain authorities to allow U.S. forces to engage in potential emergency actions."

Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates said Monday that the Defense Department twice requested the authority to use deadly force because two groups of Special Operations Forces were involved in the operation. Each required its own sanction. He said that "the approval was given virtually immediately in both cases."

Mr Obama first gave permission around 8 p.m. (0000 GMT) Friday, and upgraded it at 9:20 a.m. (1320 GMT) Saturday.

A senior administration official said that the president did not deny any operational request made to him and that he knew the broad outlines of the operation that the Navy had planned. The official said that "our people tried a variety of ways to resolve the situation peacefully, and the guidance all along was that the overriding interest was the captain's life."

....

On Saturday evening dozens of Navy SEALs parachuted from C-17 transport aircraft into the sea, making their way with inflatable Zodiacs to the Bainbridge.
'3 Rounds, 3 Dead Bodies' (http://wap.twp.mlogic3g.com/detail.jsp?key=374008&rc=to&p=1&all=1)

[herkman]

I am glad that someone has come up with the real facts. A good show all round.

Regards

Col

[Double Zero]

As you say, an exceptional result.

As far as arming merchant ships goes, well technically illegal except under certain war / threat conditions ( if I was daft enough to be there in my little sailing yacht, I'd have every weapon available and sod the law ) !

I think you might find most Merchant Skippers feel the same way, and may well have some extra rather heavily armed crew, for the British part with the initilials R.M...

[LH2]

Pardon for jumping in, but... something is not quite right about this whole affair.

From what I read here (and I haste to say, I haven't checked the veracity of any of these reports), the Captain and the crew of that U.S. ship appear to have acted in a completely non-standard way.

Anyone else who is familiar with operations in the Gulf of Aden care to confirm or refute the above impression? Others please abstain, thank you.

[Double Zero]

Care to explain what you're on about, please ?

Shooting criminals who had an innocent man with a gun ( or more ) to his head seems fair enough to me.

[GreenKnight121]

He means they didn't do any of the following:

1. indiscriminately machine-gun any fishing boat they found, shipping any survivors off to Gitmo for unspeakable torture
2. detain all merchant ships in the area and search them for hours for evidence of aiding Al-Queda, waterboarding the crews in the process
3. use the 5" gun on the lifeboat the moment they arrived
4. use the seals to raid a nursery in Somalia and carry the infants off for Satanic sacrifice.

Or alternately:
1. take bribes for letting them go with the captain
2. coddle and sympathize with the "poor, oppressed victims of Western manipulation"
3. sing a round of "It's a Pirate's Life for Me" while towing them to another ship they can take over



That it was a clean, professional, absolutely legal and error-free job is not possible to some minds.



But then, since I haven't been there, and thus can't give him some "informed source says" dirt to use in a media slander-fest, he doesn't want to hear from me.

[Trojan1981]

I would hate to be a US merchant sailor operating in the area now. I don't think the Pirates will bother to try to negotiate with the US Govt in the future, Just kill the crew, loot the ship and quickly leave. They have done it before...

[GreenKnight121]

There is usually little of significant value to be "looted"... the value comes from ransoming the ship (with cargo) and crew.

If they kill the crew they cut their ransom by at least half, and insure that more pirates will be "sanctioned" by the government of the murdered crew.

If they escalate this, they will be in major trouble.

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Slightly off Thread but we (RN) can make a contribution, provided it’s via an auxiliary tanker;

Ministry of Defence | Defence News | Military Operations | RFA Wave Knight disrupts pirate attacks (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/MilitaryOperations/RfaWaveKnightDisruptsPirateAttacks.htm)


Royal Navy personnel on board Royal Fleet Auxiliary (RFA) Wave Knight thwarted two pirate attacks on merchant vessels in the Gulf of Aden this weekend resulting in the release of 13 hostages.


British military support ship RFA Wave Knight was working in support of the Combined Maritime Forces that have been operating in the area for many years. At approximately 0800hrs on Saturday 18 April 2009, the ship received a distress call from Merchant Vessel Handy Tankers Magic, which was under attack by pirates.
The attack broke off before Wave Knight arrived, but the Royal Fleet Auxiliary ship followed the skiff to a fishing dhow, later confirmed to be a pirate 'mother ship'.
Via radio, Wave Knight ordered the dhow to stop and used a Royal Navy armed force protection team as well as the ship's own weapons team to provide cover. The pirate vessel complied.
Dutch warship HNLMS De Zeven Provincien, deployed as part of the NATO's Standing Naval Maritime Group 1, arrived on the scene and determined there were pirates and hostages aboard the vessel.
The intervention resulted in the release of 13 fishermen who had been held hostage by pirates since 12 April. The seven suspected pirates aboard the dhow were not captured in the act of piracy so they were released, but they were disarmed and their weapons destroyed.


So they won't be back then!

Anyway, well done WINNIPEG, too;


With the assistance of helicopters from the NATO task group ships HMCS Winnipeg and USS Halyburton, Wave Knight followed the pirate skiff for six hours, until relieved on-scene by Winnipeg, who conducted a boarding of the skiff. Wave Knight provided fuel and landing facilities for the NATO warships' helicopters and was able to manoeuvre into a position to stop the suspected pirates, allowing Winnipeg's boarding team to disarm and then subsequently release the suspected pirates.


Let's have a wave for WAVE KNIGHT boys;

http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/6A583E2E-5828-4D8E-805E-9D8881D73C66/0/IMG_8474.JPG

Interesting flag the "suspects" are wearing.

[FOG]

GreenKnight,

I suspect that herkman may be closer to the mark. The standard is that all U.S. military personnel have the duty to act if friendlies are in immanent danger. That is a very different standard than ordering a rescue that in the judgment of the on scene commander has/had the best chance of success.

In the Philippines with the U.S. missionary hostages being held by the Abu Sayef we (the U.S. military) needed to coordinate with various parts of the Philippino government plus our own chain. Thus the restriction on immanent danger. On the high seas in this incident there was no passable excuse to restrict immanent danger.

It is possible that there was a restriction on acting upon the immanent danger that was later lifted and thus the statement on broadened authority.

We will not have even a Pollyanna official history with transcripts for years.

S/F, FOG

[ORAC]

Oooops...... wonder where that went..... :ouch:

Navy investigating missing money after pirate rescue (http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/01/pirate.rescue.missing.money/index.html)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Navy is investigating how thousands of dollars went missing in the rescue of the captain of the Maersk Alabama in April, a Pentagon source told CNN.

The Naval Criminal Investigative Service opened an investigation into how $30,000 disappeared after special forces snipers shot and killed three pirates, ending the multi-day siege and freeing the captain, who had been held hostage. Investigators are talking to anyone who may have had contact with the money or knowledge about what happened to it, the source said, including military personnel on the warship, Navy SEALs who rescued Capt. Richard Phillips, and the crew of the Maersk Alabama.

The NCIS and the Maersk Line Ltd., which owns the Maersk Alabama, have not responded to CNN's request for comment.

In a criminal complaint filed against the one surviving alleged pirate, Abduwali Muse, the government contends the alleged pirate demanded money from the ship's captain and led him by gun point to the ship's safe. "The captain opened the safe and took out approximately $30,000 in cash. Muse and two other pirates then took the cash," the criminal complaint contends. It goes on to allege that Muse distributed some of the money to the other pirates who retreated to a lifeboat where they were holding the captain as a captive.

All three of the other pirates were killed by U.S. Special Forces snipers during the rescue but the complaint does not list any money recovered from the boat after the rescue. It only lists rifles, a hand gun, artillery, cell phones and handheld radios.

[dead_pan]

Oooops...... wonder where that went.....


I suspect it was used to fund the SEAL snipers' celebretary p1ss up...