31st Mar 2009, 03:37
What is the max duty time for 2 crew unsched under part 135?
Can this duty time be extended and if so up to what absolute maximum?
I have been told that it can be extended but my interpretation of the FARs is that only flight(stick) time can be extended.
19th Apr 2009, 09:59
Fairly complicated subject Capt Smiley - and as with everything in aviation there is no simple straight answer.(if only!) As it depends on so many variables. I suggest you consult the appropriate docs/tables and work it out according to your personal cicumstances.
20th Apr 2009, 02:25
I don't know if its all that complicated, except maybe the creativity to schedule around it (dayrooms etc.)...
 and the "planned" wording in the regs: if for example your flight has been scheduled to arrive within your 14 hour duty day and the pax show up late, you can still complete the job.
§ 135.267 Flight time limitations and rest requirements: Unscheduled one- and two-pilot crews.
(a) No certificate holder may assign any flight crewmember, and no flight crewmember may accept an assignment, for flight time as a member of a one- or two-pilot crew if that crewmember's total flight time in all commercial flying will exceed—
(1) 500 hours in any calendar quarter.
(2) 800 hours in any two consecutive calendar quarters.
(3) 1,400 hours in any calendar year.
(b) Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, during any 24 consecutive hours the total flight time of the assigned flight when added to any other commercial flying by that flight crewmember may not exceed—
(1) 8 hours for a flight crew consisting of one pilot; or
(2) 10 hours for a flight crew consisting of two pilots qualified under this part for the operation being conducted.
(c) A flight crewmember's flight time may exceed the flight time limits of paragraph (b) of this section if the assigned flight time occurs during a regularly assigned duty period of no more than 14 hours and—
(1) If this duty period is immediately preceded by and followed by a required rest period of at least 10 consecutive hours of rest;
(2) If flight time is assigned during this period, that total flight time when added to any other commercial flying by the flight crewmember may not exceed—
(i) 8 hours for a flight crew consisting of one pilot; or
(ii) 10 hours for a flight crew consisting of two pilots; and
(3) If the combined duty and rest periods equal 24 hours.
(d) Each assignment under paragraph (b) of this section must provide for at least 10 consecutive hours of rest during the 24-hour period that precedes the planned completion time of the assignment.
(e) When a flight crewmember has exceeded the daily flight time limitations in this section, because of circumstances beyond the control of the certificate holder or flight crewmember (such as adverse weather conditions), that flight crewmember must have a rest period before being assigned or accepting an assignment for flight time of at least—
(1) 11 consecutive hours of rest if the flight time limitation is exceeded by not more than 30 minutes;
(2) 12 consecutive hours of rest if the flight time limitation is exceeded by more than 30 minutes, but not more than 60 minutes; and
(3) 16 consecutive hours of rest if the flight time limitation is exceeded by more than 60 minutes.
(f) The certificate holder must provide each flight crewmember at least 13 rest periods of at least 24 consecutive hours each in each calendar quarter.
[Doc. No. 23634, 50 FR 29320, July 18, 1985, as amended by Amdt. 135–33, 54 FR 39294, Sept. 25, 1989; Amdt. 135–60, 61 FR 2616, Jan. 26, 1996]
Electronic Code of Federal Regulations: (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?type=simple;c=ecfr;cc=ecfr;sid=dc0585722db82427e3826d7b1b707323;idno=14;region=DIV1;q1=duty;rgn=div5;view=text;node=14%3A18.104.22.168.7#14:22.214.171.124.126.96.36.199)
20th Apr 2009, 04:05
It can be complicated.
Operations can be scheduled or unscheduled, and flight crews can be scheduled or unscheduled. One may be part of a regularly scheduled crew in an unscheduled operation, or one may be an unscheduled crewmember in an unscheduled operation.
The original poster asked about duty times for "2 crew unsched under 135," which could encompass either or both unscheduled crews, and unscheduled operations.
In the case of unscheduled 135 operations using a crew that does not have a regular duty schedule, there is no duty time. The only restriction is rest time, which will always be a minimum of 10 consecutive hours.
The ability to exceed flight time limits granted under 135.267(c) is a function of a crew with a regularly scheduled duty. It's not applicable to duty limitations, but only to flight time limits.
A crew without a regularly scheduled duty doesn't have a duty time limitation. The crew operates under the same rest restrictions that a single pilot operation has, however...10 hours in the previous 24 hours. Accordingly, one may only have 14 hours of duty without exceeding the rest limitations.
One may exceed flight time limits, but not duty limits...and as there are no duty limits spelled out for a crew without a schedule, one can't exceed rest limits. One must be able to look back 24 hours at any given time, and find 10 consecutive hours of rest (free from all duty to act for the employer) during that time...this requirement applies constantly at any given time during the day...at 3:00 in the afternoon one must be able to look back 24 hours and find those 10 hours of rest. At 5:00 PM one must be able to look back 24 hours and find those 10 hours of rest, etc. The rest requirement (and limitation) is the guiding principle; duty limits aren't prescribed...and exist simply as a function of of the remaining hours of the 24-hour look-back period.
20th Apr 2009, 15:09
Point taken. I guess it is difficult to grasp the regs initially, but once you worked under them they make more sense.
However, when I get called in for a flight (I don't have a regular duty schedule) I still go "on duty" not "off rest" :p
21st Apr 2009, 04:02
Therein lies another concept which sometimes causes confusion; what isn't rest isn't necessarily duty. One can be off duty, but not in a rest period...such as is the case with a tail-end ferry.