MCC in A320

[red gaint]

Hello there,

Could somebody clear my doubt.

If I do MCC in A320 and If I get an offer for B737, where an airline asks me to self-sponsor Type rating, Should I have to take any extra hours on B737 to cover MCC apart from Type rating training??

And can the hours done in A320 during MCC be logged in book?

Many thanks

RG

[Massy]

no extra hours req as TR and mcc are 2 different courses at all..and, yes you have to log your mcc hours on logbook..what I dont know if to log it as fnpt or a320ffs... let's ask at fto!

[ford cortina]

Well, I never logged my MCC hours. Just for information Sim hours arn't worth much anyway.:ok:

It does not matter one jot what aircraft you do a MCC in, you will not learn to fly it, its all about CRM.

[PBY]

It it is class D sim, you can log it as an actual aircraft hours. So why not to log it?

[red gaint]

How many hours of A320 time would I be able to log during the course? Any Idea.....

Can someone recommend a good place to do MCC?

Many thanks

Rg

[potkettleblack]

No matter what type of sim you are in they never count as part of your flying hours. Feel free to log them in a column in your logbook if you want but make sure that they do do add across to your total flying time.

Sim hours only count towards licence/rating issue and of course satisfy the requirements for an MCC certificate.

A search of LASORS will give you the lowdown on how to log time for your logbook.

[wdaniel]

well, joining the discussion...doesn't matter which airplane you choose....for MCC.

Beside this, do you know any place where to get this MCC training, of course not to expensive...;max 3000€

happy landing

[Mikehotel152]

It does not matter one jot what aircraft you do a MCC in, you will not learn to fly it, its all about CRM.

Ha ha ha. When and where did you do your MCC?

Although it's only 20 hours in the Sim, you will need to learn how to fly it to a reasonable standard or you won't be able to practise your CRM. If you can't operate the avionics how will you practise the SOPs for an instrument approach? How will you practise the CRM involved in a go-around, engine failure, engine fire, decompression, emergency descent, pilot incapacitation, windshear go-around, etc etc, if you can't handle the aircraft?

The MCC ought to be about teaching and implementing CRM theory. It is often more akin to a very lightweight TR where your handling of the aircraft and the quality of your instrument flying is also assessed, sometimes formally and sometimes informally. This is a negative by-product of FTOs vying for student and airline custom by formulating ever more elaborate and impressive course content.

I can't see anything wrong in doing an MCC in an A320, well, apart from cost!

[EpsilonVaz]

It it is class D sim, you can log it as an actual aircraft hours. So why not to log it?

I suggest you give LASORS a read, because what you just said is totally incorrect.

You cannot add any synthetic training time to your total time. It goes in the separate synthetic training coloumn in your logbook.

The only time you can add synthetic training to total time is for the purposes of applying for an ATPL. However there are limitations, I don't know them off hand, but you will find them in LASORS.

I can't see anything wrong in doing an MCC in an A320, well, apart from cost!

I think due to the handling characteristics (mainly pitch/power couple), a 737 would be the wiser choice of aircraft for the MCC.

EpsilonVaz

[ford cortina]

MikeHotel, What jet aircraft do you fly?????????? I see you have just completed training
I drive and have done for the past 3 Years, a Boeing 737-300/400/700 and 800, The MCC is about CRM, not about flying a jet aircraft.
Done correctly you will have the Autopilot engaged most of the time.:ugh::ugh::ugh:
20 hours on type, 10 PF and 10 PNF you really have no idea:ugh:

And another thing, I see you did your IR in a DA42, I had no idea that the G1000 looked anything like the steam gauges you get in a Classic 737:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Get you facts right before you start to make such informed comments sonny boy

[ford cortina]

Having calmed down. I have just found this on Lasors:

The aim of the course is to become proficient in multi-crew
co-operation in order to operate safely multi-pilot multiengine
aeroplanes under IFR or multi-pilot helicopters
under IFR and VFR as appropriate.

JAR-FCL 1.261/2.261 states the following:-

The MCC course shall comprise of:

• A minimum of 25 hours of theoretical knowledge
instruction and exercises, and
• A minimum of 20 hours of MCC training

Please note the bit, proficient in multi-crew
co-operation, this is not the same as learning to handle a Jet aircraft, you do not need to do this on a jet. In fact any SOP's you will use will be generic and most probably different than any you will use on the line.
Before you part with £3000 on 5 days in a nice sim, please bear this in mind.
Happy Flying
FC

[Mikehotel152]

There is no need to be insulting Mr Cortina. I think you have firmly grasped the wrong end of the stick and tried to bash me with it! In the interests of good CRM, I shall explain my reasoning a little more carefully.

I am fully aware that the MCC is supposed to be about CRM and after our 25 hours of very interesting classroom debates, I found it slightly maddening and disappointing to find that we were expected to have learned so much technical information in advance of the course in order to fly the aircraft. As I said in my previous post, it often felt like a mini TR. In my opinion, that is not the purpose of the MCC and we spent so much energy learning to fly the aircraft properly under IFR that the CRM aspect seemed neglected.

Our last Sim session involved the PNF becoming incapacitated on a non-precision approach after a flight from another airport which also included a decompression and emergency descent. As PF I had to do a go-around, deal with the emergency and then set up and execute another approach on my own. So, on my MCC you clearly needed to know a bit about flying the aircraft.

Nonetheless, I was very annoyed that our 'marks' for the MCC included an assessment of our technical instrument skills and we were marked down if, say, we made a mistake with the autopilot or :mad:-up an NDB approach. All the skills I listed on my previous post were assessed in my MCC. I don't say this is necesary. I can only relate my personal experience and I know my facts as they relate to my course.

Although the MCC does not need to be completed in a jet FFS, in my opinion the opportunity to experience a FFS in a jet was valuable and very enjoyable. Yes, it cost more, but my first take off in a jet sim was eye-opening and, had it occurred during a sim assessment for a job interview, I don't think I would get the job! Considering how much money I have investing in flying, the extra £1000 I spent on my MCC in order to get FFS experience and a route into a specific Airline is neither here nor there.

In my humble and inexperienced opinon, the core CRM skills can be taught in a 'paper tiger' so the use of an FNPTII or FFS is merely the current fashion.

Yes, I did my IR in a DA42. It was great fun. I don't quite see why you are banging your head against the wall because I didn't do my IR in an aircraft with steam gauges. The jet used for my MCC had steam gauges. It didn't effect my performance.

I hope that helps,

MH152