What next- post PPL?

[liam548]

Hello.

In the next couple of months or so I hope to have my fresh new PPL and enjoy this year becoming a better pilot.

Ultimately I want to follow the path into commercial aviation and obtain a frozen ATPL.

What should I do after my PPL? I am thinking along the lines of enjoying the year flying and maybe even add a night qualification later but also start a distant learning ATPL course with Bristol, would this be a wise move or would you suggest an alternative?

Maybe I could hold off on the ATPL exams until nearer a CPL course as I understand the exams allhave a shelf life.

Opinions will be appreciated, obviously with working full time and doing the modular route I am going to have to work hard to complete the ATPL exams.

Liam

[Dave1234]

I'll say this before anybody else does, as I'm sure a certain moderator is rubbing his hands together in glee at the chance to throw cold water at an enthusiastic young man's dreams (!), but there is no rush at the moment to complete anything after your PPL - I am in a similar boat and the best way forwards at the moment (as you have already suggested) appears to be to focus on the gentle hour building element, if as you have said your goal is to move towards a career in commercial aviation (in which the current employment market is looking a trifle on the skiny side).
Having spoken to the Bristol GS re: the ATPL course, they suggested getting around 150hrs tt before commencing any studying, this all makes sense considering the shelf life considerations and the slower pace of training due to the economic considerations.
I have no experience of how difficult it would be to hold down a full time job whilst studying for the ATP's, but from what my research has indicated so far, it would be preferable to go part time (at most) if you intend on completing the exams in the most timely fashion as there is a lot of material to get your head around - that having said, there does not appear to be much point in rushing to get them done ASAP as there are bugger all jobs around anyway.
I'm going to do some gradual structured hour building and get my NR done, improve my general skills and pray that the situation improves over the next few years, whilst vigorously investigating any opportunities overseas in a less battle damaged country.
I will certainly not be investing all of my saving in any training programmes geared towards airline positions, as we are currently screwed.
Good luck mate...I shall hand over to WWW at this point to destroy any remaining optimism ;)!!

[tropicalfridge]

As the man says, you need to time it so your not entering the job market until at least 2 years from now. Enjoy your flying, build some hrs, do a night rating, take some friends places and get regular check rides with an instructor to make sure your keeping on track with the CPL in mind. Could also look for para dropping or glider towing for some cheap/free flying.

Consider an IMC rating, it will help with the IR when it comes but isn't essential. Get the ATPL distance learning material and study at your own pace, but I'd leave it at least a year before you sit any exams or do the residential bits.

Also, get RANT and learn NDB holds and entries. Much easier to do this if you have done the IMC course.

[White Otter]

Don't think theres any harm in getting the ATPL started as the clock doesn't start ticking until you take your first exam. I'm in the same boat as you and I intend on reading through all of the books whilst hour building to something like 150hrs then going for it properly.

[moona]

I'f you looking to go commercial be very strict with yourself. Plan your nav's in great detail dont except any height / heading deviation throw in the odd diversion. Stall current on Stalls' PFL's EFATO's etc. Dont use a gps (maybe as backup).

The above advice is what I was told when I started my hour building. I'm starting CPL lessons tomorow and starting to wish I had paid a bit more attention to it :-s

[liam548]

Thanks for replies. I suppose Ill await with the rest of you for the uptake to start and 100s of pilots going for jobs who have been waiting years since the big credit crunch of 08/09!! :) Suppose plenty of pilots will have retired by then too as well.

White Otter when you say you are starting it do you mean actually enrolling on a course or just reading up yourself at home?

Can you start a course even though you dont intend to take exams in the near future..

I will look in to it all more, just interested in what other people are doing in a similar position, as I said thanks for the replies.

Liam

[M12]

Hi Liam, Im in a similar situation to you also post PPL, with just over 100 hours SEP, working towards Frozen ATPL in the longrun. I work fulltime, and like the other peeps will be hour building and gaining background reading on ATPLs, but not rushing to sit the exams until nearer my CPL course!

Not much advice I know, but nice to know people in similar positions. Having spoke to a colleague who is nearing the end of his training, he feels as most do, the best place to be in a recession is in training!

[White Otter]

Well I'll be doing distance learning and from what I've heard you enroll and then decide when to take the exams yourself (within reason).

[moona]

The time limit starts from when you take the first exam not when you sign up for the course. You can sign up for the course and do as much preparatory reading as you can handle.

[liam548]

The time limit starts from when you take the first exam not when you sign up for the course. You can sign up for the course and do as much preparatory reading as you can handle.

surely this makes a lot of sense then. Do as much or as little reading as you like and start the exams when either you feel ready or when you feel the time is right.

There really no limit from bristol as to when you can start the exams?

[Adam106]

I'm in a similar position to most of you except I've already started the ATPL exams - 5 done, the next 3 in two weeks time. I plan to finish all 14 by August and my main concern is the 36 month limit. I'm working full time and plan to stay full time for the next year and a half. I just hope I can get the 150 hrs done by summer 2010 when I plan to start the CPL/IR. To say the hour building is gentle at the moment is somewhat of an understatement but time and funds don't permit more.
To those concerned about doing the ATPLs and holding down a FT job - I would say that it's not that difficult and more than doable. I'm a teacher and fitting in the study and exam practice is a struggle sometimes but if you spread the whole lot over 12 months or so the exams really aren't that bad. I do maybe 7 - 10 hours a week study. I reckon the exams are going to be far the easiest part of the whole process.
I'd be interested in hearing from anyone else who is finding the hour building a frustrating and rather lonely process.

[liam548]

I'm in a similar position to most of you except I've already started the ATPL exams - 5 done, the next 3 in two weeks time. I plan to finish all 14 by August and my main concern is the 36 month limit. I'm working full time and plan to stay full time for the next year and a half. I just hope I can get the 150 hrs done by summer 2010 when I plan to start the CPL/IR. To say the hour building is gentle at the moment is somewhat of an understatement but time and funds don't permit more.
To those concerned about doing the ATPLs and holding down a FT job - I would say that it's not that difficult and more than doable. I'm a teacher and fitting in the study and exam practice is a struggle sometimes but if you spread the whole lot over 12 months or so the exams really aren't that bad. I do maybe 7 - 10 hours a week study. I reckon the exams are going to be far the easiest part of the whole process.
I'd be interested in hearing from anyone else who is finding the hour building a frustrating and rather lonely process.

Thanks for posting Adam. Im a police officer so work 6 on (2 days, 2 afternoons and 2 nights) and then get 4 days off. Plus I often get a bit of time at work to study with the odd book here and there.
Its good to know that it is doable- working full time and studying for the ATPL exams. I hope to be doing exactly what you are doing sometime soon.
Do you find the ATPL theory helps with your day to day flying (or week to week, depending on how many hours you are doing?) money and time are the biggest factors.
Liam

[Adam106]

Does the ATPL theory help with day to day flying? Not really. If at all.
I guess it's useful to know a little about Principles of flight, performance and navigation, but really it's all geared towards a 737 type aircraft. Pof, perf, nav and met are all done at PPL level and that's what the hour building is done on - so you don't strictly need the extra stuff. It's all good background info though. Honestly most of the stuff in the ATPL exams is detail you'll rarely need in day to day commercial flying. Just hoops to jump through.
Wishing now I'd booked an aircraft for today...

[White Otter]

Yeah I think a lot of the stuff is pretty useless; why do we need to know which is the Hadley Cell and which is the Ferrel Cell for example? And the useless stuff in Air Law is just silly.:ugh:

[liam548]

Wishing now I'd booked an aircraft for today...


me too, the weather has been perfect..

[liam548]

Hello all,

I have often wondered about the volume of the ATPL syllabus, do you find that most of the PPL theory is repeated (i.e back to basics) or does the ATPL theory assume that you have the PPL knowledge and therefore goes straight into teaching the more complex areas required?

:confused:

Amanda

good question. I suppose it is easier if you do ATPL theory soon after before you forget some of the PPL theory but does it cover it anyway??

[Adam106]

I think it's fair to say that being confident with the PPL theory will help alot with the ATPLs. However the subjects cover everything you need to know - people say that about 1/3 of the the ATPLs is a repeat of the PPL syllabus. I would tend say that the repeated stuff is maybe slightly less than 1/4 - well hidden within lots of other gumpf. Remember, ab initos on a integrated course will cover the same stuff and sit the same exams, and they haven't got a PPL.
I have sometimes found myself refering back to my PPL books to clarify a point when the ATPL text books were too 'heavy'. I started studying the advaced stuff straight after PPL issue, so was in a good mindset. I'm starting to doubt whether that was a good idea or not though. Getting a chuck of hour builidng done beforehand would have been more flexible in the long run in regard to time limits etc.

[liam548]

. Remember, ab initos on a integrated course will cover the same stuff and sit the same exams, and they haven't got a PPL.
.

They still do their PPL exactly the same though dont they? or do they by pass this and do their ATPL exams instead of PPL exams?

[AlphaMale]

Thy don't get a PPL and so there is no need to sit PPL exams. I'm pretty sure this is the only way of being exempt from getting a CPL via a PPL. Again if the student should drop out of his/her integrated course they won't come away with a PPL either.

Good thread, I was thinking the same thing not so long ago. Would I be better of throwing myself into the ATPL GS while the PPL is still fresh in my mind or do I enjoy the flying I can do this year and start the ATPL GS next summer when I have close to 100PIC.

The downfall is when I sit my first exam, I'll have 18 months to get my GS exams done and then a maximum of 36 months to get both the CPL and IR under my belt :rolleyes: ... no pressure! Although I am aiming to have my fATPL by 2012/2013 (30/31 years of age) so that makes very little difference to my plans.

[preduk]

Liam,

Just out of interest, are you paying it all as you go through your police wages or are you having to borrow money towards it?

Sorry for the questions, but I'm hoping to join the police in Sept so I've got the funding to finish the training through my wages rather than borrowing the money then when the job opportunity arises, leave the police and go straight into the Airlines.

[liam548]

Liam,

Just out of interest, are you paying it all as you go through your police wages or are you having to borrow money towards it?

Sorry for the questions, but I'm hoping to join the police in Sept so I've got the funding to finish the training through my wages rather than borrowing the money then when the job opportunity arises, leave the police and go straight into the Airlines.


Ive been in the police 6 years, and last year I earned just short of £32,000. Up to now I have paid for my flying through my own funding from my earnings. I do not think I will be able to do all the training this way. I would have been able to up until a couple of years ago when we bought a house so the day to day living does not come as cheap as when I lived with my parents!!

I have however sold my flash car and have something a lot less desirable to drive however it is all for a purpose, I want to fly for a living!

When it gets to things like the IR/ CPL and possibly type rating I will probably end up taking out a loan.

Who knows, things change. For now I am enjoying gaining my PPL then hour building and as soon as I can working towards my CPL.

Have you passed the assessment for the police yet? There are not many forces currently recruiting and unless you do not have many outgoings I am not sure a starting PCs salary will be enough to get you a fATPL. Its an unusual reason to join the police but if you think you can pull it off go for it. The experience you have in te police will no doubt be beneficial, as I understand their interview/selection process is not too different from many of the airlines, strangely enough.

good luck.

Liam

[preduk]

I'm an SPC at the moment while I finish my second University course and love it, however I love flying even more.

So I'm hoping to join the Police for a couple of years, 4-5years enjoy it while doing the flying part time and then join straight into the airlines when I get my chance. If I never get a job with the airlines I would be more than happy to stick with the Police to be honest.

Recruitment wise, I live in Scotland so the Scottish Govt is doing a huge amount of recruitment at the moment to gain an extra 1,000 officers but there is also a large amount retiring so I've been told the next 3 years is a perfect time to join the force full time.

[gc2750]

I think joining the police is an excellent idea in the medium term. I am a newly-promoted Inspector and having just finished the PPL am considering doing the Night, IMC and some hour building this year. Unsure as to whether to start ATPLs or not. I think I will leave it until I have about 70 hours P1.

You may find it tough to pay for flying on a new PC's wage unless your outgoings are very low but it is a secure job in these turbulent times and depending on where you work good potential for overtime as well (which I don't get paid anymore as an Insp!).