Sqn Ldr (Keith??) Hanscombe

[madcat11]

Hi,

I am trying to contact the man himself (a Victor pilot), a relative or friend who returned some uniform items to RAF Marham recently.

Please contact via PM.

Regards,

Madcat

[NRU74]

Madcat
Sorry to inform you that Keith [Neddy] Handscomb died on, I think, 1/2/09 - there was an announcement in the Telegraph on 6/2/09
Unfortunately I was unable to go to his funeral [having flown on his crew at Marham for quite a long period]
RIP Ned

[The Oberon]

Wasn't Neddy the only one to eject from a Victor twice. Once from a B2R climbing out from Wittering and also a Marham K2 off the North East coast ??

[Treble one]

I believe the ejection from the K2 was mentioned in 'Vulcan 607' ( a Buccaneer hit the aircraft's tail during AAR IIRC)?

[VictorPilot]

I do not recall any B2R ejections from Wittering. Are you mixing it up with a B2 when the co-pilot ejected and the rest of the crew were lost?

[VictorPilot]

Further thought. I have a suspicion that it was a 57 Sqn Victor K1 or K1a involved. The Bucc got in the wing vortex and got thrown over the top of the Victor taking the tail off. Information changes, but at the time it was thought the aircraft bunted so hard the negative G stopped both the pilot and co-pilot ejecting using the seat pan handles. The cockpit broke up and fired one ejection seat in the process. I did ask Neddy some years later about the actual sequence of events in the cockpit, but perhaps not surprisingly, he had no recollection.

[windriver]

There is an account of the accident and subsequent rescue in the book "Drama In The Air" by John Beattie.

[Art Field]

I was a member of the Board that investigated Neddy's accident and it was as Victor Pilot says. We thought that the top latch of his bang seat fractured under the severe strain of negative 'g' as the aircraft bunted after the tailplane came off. Neddy did wonder if he might just have got one finger on the bottom handle as he had a bruised finger but he was pretty bruised all over. As a result of that accident the bottom handle on the pilots seats was changed from a solid handle to a flexible loop.

[Top West 50]

I went to the funeral in Kings Lynn. It was very well attended and a very decent send-off for a very nice chap.

[VictorPilot]

Hi, This is Bob Prothero. Very interested to hear you were on the BOI of the AAR accident. I had left Marham and was at Offutt AFB when the accident occured. I had known Neddy since the early 60s, and was pretty shocked to hear from Alaister Sutherland, at Offutt on a Ranger shortly after, what had happened. I can read the basics, but Alaister said much more about the Buccs initially denying their involvement, and then it turned out they were blatently disregarding the GASOs in relation to the AAR conversion of Bucc pilots, and the supervisory aspects of the flight. Any comment? Neddy was unconsious in the water I believe, and very lucky to be picked up .... SARBE activated? Be good to hear from you....

[Art Field]

VictorPilot, Check your private mail.

[Tankertrashnav]

Neddy was unconsious in the water I believe, and very lucky to be picked up .... SARBE activated?

Bob, I was at Marham at the time and I think I am right in saying that Neddy was initially picked out of the water by a German fishing boat, then transferred to an SAR helicopter. The story went that although he was wearing an immersion suit, as required, he wasnt wearing a lot underneath and when first checked by the medics his body temperature was so low that it was amazing he was still alive. I know that for a while at least we were all a bit happier to sweat it out in immersion suits with those uncomfortable bunny suits underneath, but human nature being what it is, it probably didnt last.

[ToffeeMark]

Really saddened to read about the circumstances of this accident, but also very interested in learning more about it. My dad was ground crew at Marham at the time, I was talking to him this week about which aircraft he had worked on, Asked him if he'd been on buccaneers and he said no, don't like them and he cited this accident. It was very difficult to find info on it, I'll look into the book, and have a chat with my dad again.

Are the any other sources? the most interesting read has been from this thread. I did also find this detail: (5 crew, 4 died)

24 Mar 75
XH618
Victor
KlA
57 Sqn
off Sunderland
4

Mid air collision with Buccaneer XV156. The Victor was taking part in simulated refuelling when the Buccaneer struck the tailplane rendering the Victor immediately uncontrollable. It bunted over and the 'g' forces made it impossible for the crew to escape; the captain, Flight Lieutenant Keith Handscomb managed to reach the ejection handle with the fingers of one hand and although injured was subsequently rescued by a merchant ship. The aircraft exploded as it reached the cloud tops. The Buccaneer was undamaged and returned to base.

Flight Lieutenant David Hallam CROWTHER
Flight Lieutenant Peter Joseph Leo SLATTER
Flying Officer Terence Patrick EVANS
Flying Officer John Arthur PRICE

[foldingwings]

My recall, as a Bucc man on 12 Sqn then, was that XV156 was being operated by our sister squadron (208) at Honington at the time. Having recently returned to service as a Buccaneer outfit, 208 were in the midst of a mass crew AAR convex but had decided to conduct AAR training with squadron crews who had been qualified previously rather than use current expertise from 12 Sqn or 809 Sqn who were both based with them at Honington. This accident put an immediate stop to that and 208 were only allowed by HQ1Gp to continue their convex sorties with the support of 12 Squadron AAR instructors. It was the only time in my 13 years on Buccs that I flew with 208 pilots in 208 aircraft!

It was a very sad day and one that should never have happened had the then OC 208 not been too proud to ask for support!

Foldie

[papa_sierra]

I was a Crew Chief on 55 Squadron at the time. The Copilot and Nav, both Flying Officers, were from 55 and were on the 57 Squadron crew as I believe they were short on hours for the month and elected to fly with 57.
A very sad day.

[ToffeeMark]

My Dad had a happy RAF career from what I remember but I'd never really spoke about this before, when this came up in conversation the other night it seemed that he was angry/frustrated/sad felt the loss of the crew quite badly at the time, and never forgot it.

As I said, I'm going to read up on it. Found this more detail this evening;

on 24th March 1975. 57 Sqn Victor K2 XH618 had a rendezvous point over the North Sea, about 100 miles north east of Newcastle. The recipients were Honington-based Buccaneer S2s. The first aircraft made contact with the port side drogue and in two minutes withdrew, having been replenished,

For the pilot of the second aircraft, it was his first in-flight refuelling so he was instructed to make two 'dry' contacts. He made his first contact successfully and withdrew to allow the Victor to execute a 180 degree turn. Following the tanker round, the Buccaneer pilot approached for his second dry contact but, on appreciating that his speed was too fast, drew back just as he was level with the drogue which, on striking his probe,caused the hose to snake round and the drogue to hit the Victor. The drogue richocheted off the tanker's fuselage, struck the Buccaneer's canopy and wrapped itself around the fuselage.

The pilot made a quick nose-down manouevre but his starboard wing hit the Victor's port elevator causing the Victor pilot to lose control; this placed too great a load on the tail and it broke off. The captain ordered his crew to bail out but just as he made his ejection the Victor exploded. He was found in his dinghy by the German freighter Hoheburg and recovered to fly again. The rest of the tanker crew perished, the Buccaneer survived to make landfall

http://glostransporthistory.visit-gloucestershire.co.uk/images/Air_HP%20Victor%20XH618_Buccaneer.jpg

[Tankertrashnav]

Following the tanker round, the Buccaneer pilot approached for his second dry contact but, on appreciating that his speed was too fast, drew back just as he was level with the drogue which, on striking his probe,caused the hose to snake round and the drogue to hit the Victor. The drogue richocheted off the tanker's fuselage, struck the Buccaneer's canopy and wrapped itself around the fuselage.




Do you have a source for that, Toffeemark? I was a K1 nav radar/refuelling operator for neary 6 years and cant imagine how the drogue could strike the Victor's fuselage. It's not the way I heard the sequence of events described at the time, but as I dont have chapter and verse I better not give the version I heard as it may not be accurate. Anyone know what the BOI version was?

[ToffeeMark]

This is where I took the source from: (Sorry I didn't link it in the original post)

Air To Air Refueling - ARC Air Discussion Forums (http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=86572&st=20&p=731707)&

Interestingly I recieved from Amazon today "Drama In The Air" by John Beattie as recommended earlier in the thread, this quotes the drone swinging towards the Victor fuselage and then swinging back and striking the buccaneer cockpit.

So the book doesn't actually mention it striking the Victor, which I agree sounds a little strange.

When my dad mentioned it, he'd said he lost a crew, I read about it on the net, I learned of one ejection, no names/ or number of fatalities I've gradually built a more detailed account, but you've probably got a more accurate first/second hand account than I'll ever get.

Had a very brief chat with my dad this evening, established that he was 55 sqdn

[StevePC]

Hello - my Dad (Flt Lt David Hallam Crowther) was the Navigator on Victor XH618 that day and along with 4 other members sadly perished. I did not know very much about the circumstances of the accident until I found a brief explanation on the Ejection History site some years ago. I noted with great interest that a couple of books give accounts of the day and have just ordered copies. We first heard about it when it was reported that evening on the BBC TV news, an hour or so later we received telephone call from the RAF and they later sent 2 officers to our home although they admitted that it was too soon to know all the details. Aside from the memorial service held at RAF Marham, the RAF did not provide any further explanation or report of what happened, so I have been trying to gather more information and in doing so found this thread. I would appreciate it if any contributors could furnish me with more details or point me towards a contact within the RAF who perhaps could. Many thanks

[Tankertrashnav]

Steve - check your Private Messages. I have no reliable information other than what I have already posted on this thread, but I may be able to put you in touch with one of the members of the Board of Inquiry.

[Art Field]

Tankertrashnav

See you PMs

[Nick Glynn]

Hi,
My childhood friend Terry Evans was a Flying Officer on board when this terrible tragedy happened. Reading these threads has sent shivers down my spine, because we were never told the truth about this accident, other than the Bomber went down in the North Sea killing all aboard and the bodies nor the plane were ever recovered. Now I know the events, it is very sad - such a terrible death for these brave aviators. Do you know if any relatives are still alive? His sister was Jennifer - I think both parents are dead.

[Terrys-sister]

Hi Nick Glynn, Long time no see. I,m Terry's sister Jenny(Jennifer). So supprised to see you on this site. I just stumbled upon it when I was searching info on Victors following a tv article about the v bombers. I am touch that you still think of Terry after all this time. Dad did die back in August 1991 but Mum is still very much alive and living up here near me.

[Terrys-sister]

Hello Steve, I,m Terry Evans' sister and the account we were given at the time was similar to those above. The buccaneer hit the victor in heavy cloud cover but returned unscathed. The victor exploded with no time for anyone to eject and the pilot was only blown clear and landed in the sea to be picked up by a boat. They said he broke his back.

[annie1950]

Hi - just came accross your post - I was married to John Price the co-pilot on the Victor - the 30 year secrecy act is now up and the report is available - although nothing more comes out of it except that John was too short to reach the ejector handle - I do believe modifications were made after to accommodate shorter pilots under g force
Anne Knight (formerly Price)

[Scruffy Fanny]

Kieth Hanscombe was my God Father and I visited him in Ely Hospital two days after the accident. I was born in 1959 and I guess in my teens- the accounts given are pretty accurate- a very tragic accident I'm so sorry that the RAF let you down by not giving you the full details. Keith was actually wearing a pair of golfing trousers under his summer flying suit and yes he was lucky to have been picked up by a passing ship. my father who was good friends with Keith may provide more details if that helps kind Rgds ian b

[Lesleytaylor]

I have just been looking for info on my brother in law Sq. Ldr Keith Handscomb, and I found a post from Madcat11 asking for the relative that returned Keiths uniforms to RAF Marham after he passed away in 2009. It was me Lesley Taylor, sister in law, I would be pleased to hear from Madcat11.

[Vitesse]

Hello Lesley,

It looks like Madcat hasn't posted here since 2009.

You could try and use the Private Message system which I believe will send an email to the address he registered here. If he's still using that address it should find him.

Click on Madcat's name in the first post and choose the Private Message option.

Good luck.

[greywings]

Dear All,

The saddest thing about this accident was the sheer foolishness of it. The squadron concerned had asked for a 'phase briefing' for AAR, which was delivered, though only covered 'buddy-buddy' refuelling from a Buccaneer aircraft. That briefing was concluded with the strongest emphasis on the fact that any AAR with Victor tankers required the statutory course at Marham which, as we know, was not carried out. Instead, a Victor tanker was requested and the result was a totally avoidable and unnecessary loss of life.

The Cold War put great stress on a military system of which we can all be proud. Regrettably, it also resulted in some decisions of which we can be ashamed. This was one of them.

[craddie]

To Steve Crowther


I have only recently seen your comments made to this site in 2011. The last comment was dated the 17th June 2013. I knew your father Dave Crowther, Neddie Handscombe (the sole survivor and a Suffolk boy like me), Pete Slatter and Terry Evans (Terry and I crewed up together for the 232 OCU course prior to joining our squadrons) from my second tour on 57 sqn. I saw all the crew just before they climbed aboard the crew bus to take him out to XH618 (which we nick named the dream machine).


I would be very grateful if you would contact me david.card1@live .co.uk (or any relatives of Terry Evans, Pete Slatter or John Price). Next year will mark 40 years since this tragedy and I am sure that many of us would wish to meet, remember and pay our respects in an appropriate way.


Dave Card (Craddie)

[Johns sister]

Not sure if you did manage to organise anything for the 40th anniversary but
unfortunately as I live in Australia sadly I would not have been able to attend.

My recollections 40 years today are exactly the same as Steve Crowther -seeing the accident on the news and later that evening the phone call to my parents.No doubt my family & I would have met some of you at the memorial service on the base.

It has also been interesting to see how much the accident as well as affecting
the families of all the airmen lost that day - it also greatly affected everyone on the base.

My best wishes to you all.

[Autobahnstormer]

A tragic affair. I remember it, Keith & Joan were our neighbours at Marham. My Dad was on 57 Sqn. My Mum first heard the news on the radio & quickly called the Squadron before the phones shut-down to be told that Dad was not on board.
The facts of Keith getting-out are documented, but he described pieces of aircraft falling alongside him as he floated down on his parachute. When he hit the north sea a nearby German fishing-boat helped rescue him. His survival Knife was mounted on a plaque in his hallway, presented back to him by the German boat crew who thought he was the pilot of an F-104, an aircraft which had a habit of crashing. The SAR helo was at maximum range and the SAR Crew were blowing into his immersion suit to bring his core-temperature up.
Neddy was a thorough gentleman and he & Joan were my surrogate parents when my folks were ever away.
ABS

[craddie]

Dear All,


It was 40 years ago that we lost some very good friends our thoughts are with them and their families.


I have a copy of the page in the St Clements Dane Book of Remembrance that records the loss of RAF aircrew in that month of March 1975 and details of the incident. Anyone wishing to get details try me [email protected]

[Tengah Type]

I had the honour and pleasure to fly on Op Corporate with Neddy from May to July 82. Always a great time with one of nature's true gentlemen.

He also usually won "The Most Ridiculous Beach Shirt" competition.

[manxman57]

I was a crew chief on 214 at the time of 618's crash and at the time we had to check the Sdn aircraft for possible bombs


When I was researching for my Book on the Victor Published by Pen and Sword I was given a copy of the Court of enquiry by a Victor Captain who knew I was interested in the details of the crash .You will find a copy in Vol2 which deals with all the accidents to the Victor. The Navigator was supposed to be monitoring the pilot as he had been cleared to do that when on another Squadron I will not name him but he left the RAF as an Air Commodore and wrote articles on the "Men behind the medals." in Flypast


Manxman57

[iain2210]

All,

I have known about this crash for many years, as my father (Flt. Lt. William (Bill) Duncan) used to fly as A.E.O. with 55 Sqn at Marham during the period it happened.

Recently I was home, looking through old slides and came across one of my dad with a pilot at RAF Luqa. I've never asked my dad before who was with him, I have no idea why.

'Why, that's John Price and myself' he said, '...at Luqa about 1972/73'.

He lived across the road from us in the O.M.Q.'s apparently.

It shows John larking about a wee bit. I thought it apt that a face be put to a name here; sadly I can't post attachments. Hopefully if this changes I can post the pic.

Yours aye

[Paulsearch]

Hi - just came accross your post - I was married to John Price the co-pilot on the Victor - the 30 year secrecy act is now up and the report is available - although nothing more comes out of it except that John was too short to reach the ejector handle - I do believe modifications were made after to accommodate shorter pilots under g force
Anne Knight (formerly Price)
Hi Anne. I am a relative of John through the Price side of the family. I have been searching a long time to find family of John's he was my mother's cousin (Jeanne Price Bill's daughter from Cambridge rd) I hope you are keeping well, I understand if you do not reply as sometimes memories can be difficult anyway my email is [email protected] it would be good to hear from you and hear how you are doing. Take care Paul.

[Tinribs]

I was on 55 1966/69 and remember the seat well.
There were two handles one above your head and another between the thighs. It was suggested to use the lower handle in a hurry but the upper if it was a premeditate ejection because the posture created reduced the severity of the inevitable back injuries.
The seat was designed when we wore flying suits only and when immersion suits with thick fleece inner overalls were issued the availability of the lower handle was reduced
I suppose a longer handle might have been introduced earlier but so might a great many of other improvements.

[tarantonight]

I have read this thread with interest. My family used to have a connection with a village named Meldreth on the Hertfordshire / Cambridgeshire border.

I have a vague memory that one of the Victor crew lived in the village at the time, but due to the distance between Meldreth and Marham can't see that being correct. I have had this planted in my head since childhood. Any ideas out there?

TN.

[whirlwind]

I was the pilot of the SAR Whirlwind helicopter that picked Keith up and flew him to Scarborough hospital. If there are any family members around, I'd be happy to hear from them if they'd like to hear more about that rescue.
WW

[Roommate]

My wife and I were next door neighbours of Keith at Marham in 75/76. I recall he was in recuperation at the time. I recall he was kind to us, helping us feel welcome in our new environment.
Terry Evans was my room-mate during navigation training and was my wife's groomsman at our wedding in 1973, escorting her to church. He will always be remembered in our home. He is there on our wedding photos as part of our guard of honour. We remember him with sadness at the shortness of his life and the tragic circumstances of his loss but with fondness, and a smile especially, as it was Terry who decorated our car with a red, white and blue roundal after the reception. He smiles at us whenever we watch the short video clip of our wedding day.

[iain2210]

L-R Bill Duncan and John Price, both 55 Squadron, at Luqa 1972/73

[Tankertrashnav]

Iain - I flew with your father a few times when he came across to 214. I saw him again at a V Force reunion at Newark some years back and he was telling me he had retrained as a pilot after leaving the RAF and flew on fisheries protection, or something like that? A good bloke to be with on a "run ashore" on detachment!

[iain2210]

He did indeed train as a pilot, CPL with twin rating. Ended up as an Observer (!) for the Fisheries flying Do-228 and F-27. Mind you that was after 12 years in the T.A., 2/51 Highland. He was almost full-time with them!
It would have been 2005 he went to the reunion: very glad I persuaded him to go, he met up with a few people he hadn't seen for years.
PM me your name if you wish; I'm seeing him soon and always like to jog his memory regarding those times.

[Tankertrashnav]

Email sent via PPRuNe Iain

[iain2210]

Hi tankertrashnav,

Just so you don't think me rude, can't seem to access email through forum and mods have not yet responded to request for info.

Cheers

[Tankertrashnav]

OK Iain I expect they will get round to it!

[Johns sister]

L-R Bill Duncan and John Price, both 55 Squadron, at Luqa 1972/73

Hi Iain

Great photo of my brother and Bill. I might have a few other photos myself.

[bloodaxe]

I was very tied into the Victor/Bucc accident as I had been on 55Sqn in the late 1960’s when Pete Slater was the AEO on my crew. I left the Sqn to become a QFI and John Price was one of the students I had taught on the JP. I then went to 206 Sqn on Nimrods and was airborne when the accident happened and was diverted to the scene to carry out a search. We found a large fuel slick and nearby the German coaster who we could talk to via our marine-band radio. The ship had seen Neddie’s parachute come down and positioned to protect him from the swell, I think he was in his one-man dingy. The crew could not get him onto the deck because of the sea state and Neddie’s injuries. They threw their own multi-seater dingy over the side and a couple of the crew got down to help Neddie. Meanwhile the SAR Whirlwind arrived and Neddie was taken to shore but the helo did not have enough fuel to get to the nearest hospital and landed on the shoreline where I think he was taken by ambulance to hospital. As we used to have our name written on our Maewest the German crew had told us Neddie’s name and I knew that Pete Slater was on the crew. Only later did I learn that John Price had been onboard as well. Needless to say we found nothing else in the area and the whole experience was very sobering and very tragic.

[Terrys-sister]

Hi Room mate, I’m Terry’s sister, I have just returned from RAF Marham where they were saying farewell to the Gate Guardian Victor which is unfortunately going to be scrapped. This has prompted me to revisit this site and I came across your post. I was astonished to find your post and moved by your kind words about Terry. I remember him being in a guard of honour at a friends wedding. As the years go by I think these little things become very important and as I am the last member of the family still around it is wonderful to find someone who knew Terry. He lived a breathed the RAF and we as a family were immensely proud of his achievents for a boy from humble beginnings. I’m sure he would have gone far.

I met some very interesting people at the Victor Farewell but none who knew him. The event had been scaled down due to Covid and I suppose many people may have passed or moved away during the intervening years.

[Terrys-sister]

Hi, Craddie, I’m Terrys sister.

[Terrys-sister]

Not sure if you did manage to organise anything for the 40th anniversary but
unfortunately as I live in Australia sadly I would not have been able to attend.

My recollections 40 years today are exactly the same as Steve Crowther -seeing the accident on the news and later that evening the phone call to my parents.No doubt my family & I would have met some of you at the memorial service on the base.

It has also been interesting to see how much the accident as well as affecting
the families of all the airmen lost that day - it also greatly affected everyone on the base.

My best wishes to you all.
I’m Terrys sister and it was the same for us. We heard it on the News on TV and then the BBC denied broadcasting it.

[Terrys-sister]

My brother was a Navigator on the Victor, Terry Evans.

[craddie]

Hi Terry's sister
I flew with Terry when he and I did the Victor course. Still have the photo. Please email me [email protected] and I will send details and a lot more I have found out about the accident.

Craddie

[Terrys-sister]

Hi Craddie, I have sent you a reply on the email provided.