Prestigious route? Or Cheap Route?

[ak224]

I have pass the skills assesment centre at Oxford Aviation Academy, and once i finish University i plan to start the course in August/September.

What i wanted to ask you people is this:

Will it make any major difference to me if i went down the cheaper route of doing the exams from a less prestigious school , and fly from an american school who train using the JAA syllabus?

When i mean difference, im refering to my job chances, assuming all the major british airlines are recruiting in 2 years time. Because OAA claim to have the backdoor to the HR departments at all the major airlines in the UK.

Do people who have attending less prestigious schools got jobs in the last year or so?

Thanks Guys

[mad_jock]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

wibble wibble :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[maxdrypower]

What Mad Jock is trying to say in a round about way , is have look at the sticky at the top of the page , once you have inwardly ingested the answers to this same question that has been asked over 1000,000 times before please feel free to post any genuine enquiry

[BSmuppet]

The only backdoor OAA (or any integrated school) have access to is the one you sit on. :}

[ford cortina]

Don't knock the lad, just because he has no idea how to use the search button. Oxford are the worlds finest flight school*, you will get a job on a big airline flying a A380 from day one, with a gold plated license and the staff at the CAA kissing your shoes.
Enjoy


*according to ex oxford students:ok::ok::ok::ok::ok:

[AlphaMale]

Will it make any major difference to me if i went down the cheaper route of doing the exams from a less prestigious school

You have a few options for the ATPL GS, CATS (http://www.cranfieldaviation.com/atpl) are pretty cheap at £1k and people seem to get job afterwards, Bristol GS (http://www.bristol.gs/groundschool/atpl_main.aspx) have quite a following too and will be my personal choice.

and fly from an american school who train using the JAA syllabus?

Many pilots have had training at US flight schools and done well in getting a job in Europe. But many people will agree that if you're going to fly or work in the UK then you're better off in learning in UK air space with UK weather.

When i mean difference, im refering to my job chances, assuming all the major british airlines are recruiting in 2 years time.

Who told you they are taking on in 2 years time? Might be worth asking WWW if they are taking on in 2 years time, many think he's Mr Doom and gloom but what he says does make sense and I'd take his advise (but make up your own mind).

As for job chances ... there are many many pilots out of work, ex-airline pilots with maybe 3,000hrs of 737/A320/757 time and no job. There are hundreds of instructors with hundreds if not thousands of hours in their log book waiting their turn.

And then there is Mr Richie Rich who has spent £90k on fATPL training and still has another £35k burning a hole in his wallet who is happy to spend that on a TR.

Because OAA claim to have the backdoor to the HR departments at all the major airlines in the UK.

Glad you said 'claim'.

Do people who have attending less prestigious schools got jobs in the last year or so?

"less prestigious" being CTC (http://www.ctcaviation.com/)? ... OAA are not the top school, I know a pilot that went to FTE (http://www.ftejerez.com/index.php) and started work with an airline straight away albeit 3 or 4 years ago.

Thanks Guys

It's only my opinion :bored: but use the search button and read the Sticky (http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/131649-archive-reference-threads-posting-guidelines-read-before-you-post-question.html), you'll find all the answers there.

Good luck.

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

Afraz please please please tell us it's not you is it mate???? :)

[ak224]

Apologies for not reading the sticky properly :(

Much thanks for the reply alpha male..

In response to the points you made:

My assumption of the airline industry picking up in two years time, was just an assumption to get my question across. I will point out i study Aerospace Engineering from a prestigious University, which has so called "experts" in the field of airtravel trends of growth and patterns etc. I spoke to them about the industries future, i was told predicting the airline industry is very difficult. And that no one really knows what is going to happen in 2 years time and as a result it is a gamble to start training now...

The point i was making was probably not well done, I see schools such as CTC, Cabair, OAA etc as a the top ones. Costs are a crucial part of training, so i was considering the option of going to the cheapest schools possible. And was wondering if my chances for a job would be affected. Anyway i will start to READ the forum!

[AlphaMale]

I think you'll find ex-students from OAA who graduated last year and still have yet to find a job. Then you may have a pilot working as a FO who graduated from a smaller modular school.

Some students think after 250hrs at OAA they are ready to take on a 737 by the horns and then you have a person who will finish a modular school with 250hrs, then work as an FI for 2 years, get 700+hrs and then work for a neighbouring air taxi come BizJet Operator.

There is no true answer to your questions but if you read the threads you'll come to some conclusion. I don't personally think a 250hr OAA pilot has a better chance of getting into an airline than a pilot who has over 1,500hrs on a KingAir. But some will argue otherwise.

I should imagine that in 2 years time the airlines will be taking on again, but they will be taking on the ex-pilots of Zoom, SilverJet, Oasis, Eos, Maxjet etc. I'm looking to finish my training and have my log book and CV look as tempting as possible for 3 to 4 years time. But a fresh young student from a school like OAA with no bad habits might be just what an airline wants in 2011 .. You gotta be in it to win it.
:rolleyes:

[James D]

Other than it costng more what on earth makes you think OAA/FTE etc is more "prestigious"?

[ak224]

Alpha male, in your first response you mention speaking to "WWW" i assume you mean the airline hr ppl who give the interviews...

I think that is where i will start, try and contact the hr departments of the main airlines for what they look for.

[preduk]

The HR people in airlines probably wont respond, they aren't a recruitment service they are a fully operational business thats gets thousands of letters from qualified pilots about jobs.

Read these forums there is a lot of information to be found.

[Whirlygig]

WWW = Wee Weasley Welshman, a moderator of this forum.

However, "cheap" (or more correctly, less expensive) schools are not necessarily poor quality and "prestigious" schools are not necessarily better (although they are, on the whole, more expensive).

Please don't confuse prestige with quality with cost.

Cheers

Whirls

[BSmuppet]

Frankly Mr Shankley

I'm afraid it might just be him!

[AlphaMale]

Frankly Mr Shankley

I'm afraid it might just be him!


I'm thinking the same - I should have left him get picked on.

I'll contact the hr departments of the main airlines for what they look for.

As preuk said, the HR departments of airlines get thousands of CV's and letters to them all the time. In fact they probably get more mail than Santa does on the run up to Christmas!

I am aware of pilots with over 1,000 hrs who send their CV off to airlines and don't get a 'Thank you but we're not taking on' letter back.

READ THE FORUM AFRAZ! :ugh:

Your best bet it to either train with CTC (as I mentioned above), I've heard the figure being thrown around that only 2% of applicants make it onto training and 98% of graduates move straight on to a jet job on graduating.

On the other hand you could use a cheaper school (less risk) spend £40k on training and if you don't get a job at least you have a licence to bimble around in your group shared 172. The rest you can just write off as a bad experience and learn from it.

[G SXTY]

ak224. If you detect a small degree of cynicism in some of the responses, it's because your line of questioning is very similar to another member, Afraz, who pops up every now and then and repeatedly asks the same question.

To answer your question, the 'prestigious' schools as you call them would obviously love you to think that training with them gives you a better chance of an airline job. I'm sure you can work out why they do this, but for anyone who can't, Oxford's course (currently £66,000) or FTE's (£81,000) will give you essentially the same qualification as modular training with a number of smaller schools, which can be done for more like £45,000. They need to justify the extra cost somehow, and dangling the prospect of a shiny jet job in front of you is part of the act. Ask them if they can guarantee you an airline job, and they wont - because they can't - but there will be plenty of subtle nods and winks. In case the message isn't obvious enough, Oxfords's homepage has a nice big picture of a 767, and FTE show you what an Airbus looks like. Be in no doubt, it's slick marketing - nothing more.

When airlines are recruiting, candidates from 'lesser' schools are just as likely to get jobs as those with Oxford or FTE on their CV. The (very small) school I trained at does not have any pictures of jets on its website - but it does have a photo of their dog, which I rather liked. Despite this handicap, they managed to get five ex-students interviewed with a fairly large UK airline - and four of us got jobs as a result - within a single month last year. The key phrase is 'when airlines are recruiting.' Right now they are not, and it doesn't matter whether you trained at Oxford, NASA or Much Piddling In The Marsh Flying Club, there are no jobs out there. Nor will there be many for low-hours pilots for at least the next 2-3 years.

Timing, contacts and determination are all far more important keys to success in this game than where or how you trained.

[Rugbyears]

Chaps is there really any need for all of this cynicism? :confused:

G-SXTY & Alpha Male two very informative posts - Well Done!:)

[ak224]

Well just to confirm im not this bloke afraz... Yeh before i ask questions im going to finish reading the sticky !

Just point out the oxford course is now 71k plus the accomodation cost for uk part of the couse.

[corsair]

G sxty is spot on. It doesn't really matter. Despite what people say. There is sometimes the impression given the OAA or FTE are the Oxbridge or Harvard of the flying game. They're not. They are good and you will be a well trained pilot at the end and indeed you may be offered an interview on the basis of having been trained there. Assuming you maintain a high standard during the course. You won't be put forward if you were one of their 'remedial' students. In another thread recently dealing BA, several victims of marketing hype were of the belief that pilots coming down the modular route were some kind of second raters. Which is ironic considering OAA has a modular course.

It really depends on how much money you're willing to spend or more likely have to spend. Given the tendency for airlines to demand up front payment for type ratings these days. You might be better hanging on to some of your hard earned against that possibility. It's up to you though.

[maxdrypower]

Well if he thinks oaa kindergarten pilot school and the CTC tail scrapers club are more prestidgious then they are obvilously still doing their marketing well, nice glossy brochures arent they

[Afraz]

No its not me Frankly Mr Shankly :ok:

[A and C]

Put no money up front that you can't afford to go west!!! Do a PPL at the nearest quality flying club.

Get a good deal on hours building ( not one of those overpriced "structued" plans)

Do the modular fATPL with Stapleford or Bristol or another quality independant company.

The time this will take will give you a good chance of being ready about the time that the market picks up, at about that time you can select the best type rating from a job point of view.

And in case you missed it the first time......

Pay nothing up front!!!!!!!!!!!!