Mosquito "Resin Lamps"

[zotbox]

I am trying establish the purpose and operation of the "Resin Lamps" seen on the trailing edge of the Mosquito wing tips, just outboard of the ailerons.
There is also a possibility that such devices were found on the trailing edge of the Lancaster wing tips as well.

There is a suggestion that these lamps were designed to operate in the Infra-red spectrum as some form of IFF system.

I can find no reference to any system employed for the detection or interrogation of IR lamps in any of my books or on the WWW on this subject (Including "Most secret war" by RV Jones) and wonder if the existence of the system has been forgotten over time, perhaps due to the sensitive classification of such a device, or if these lamps were simply some form of low intensity formation lamp and unremarkable in their use.

A "resin lamp" switch is also located in the cockpit of the Hawker Tempest II as can be seen in this diagram (figure 3, item 70) The Hawker Tempest Page (http://www.hawkertempest.se/Cockpit.htm)

Can any Ppruners shed any (cough) light on this subject?

[deltayankee]

As I understand it the lights pointing backwards are for formation flying -- they should be visible only to aircraft just behind and avoid accidental rear ending.

Sometimes you see other narrow angle lights pointing downwards and in this case the purpose is IFF. They would be turned on over friendly territory so that people directly underneath would not shoot at you.

[forget]

Here.

Resin Lights and Mosquito - Aircraft of World War II - Warbird Forums (http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/other-mechanical-systems-tech/resin-lights-mosquito-5017.html)

PS. See Post #18 here. Infra-red. :confused:

Hawker Typhoon Mk. 1 B - Britmodeller.com (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=14930&st=0&p=168550&#entry168550)

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

For what it's worth, the 2 formation lights I have in one of my bits boxes have narrow angle blue lenses.

[zotbox]

"For what it's worth, the 2 formation lights I have in one of my bits boxes have narrow angle blue lenses. "

That is of interest GBZ, Are those parts from a Mosquito?

I have seen a picture of a "Resin Lamp" installed on a Mosquito and it has a red lense.
A blue lense suggests that these items may have configured as navigation lights port and starboard.

I suppose the question I am really asking is: Was "resin" a code word for airborne Infra-red technologies during World War 2?

(And Forget has identified the thread on Britmodeller that started this quest!)

Thanks for your responses

[18-Wheeler]

I can find no reference to any system employed for the detection or interrogation of IR lamps in any of my books or on the WWW on this subject (Including "Most secret war" by RV Jones) and wonder if the existence of the system has been forgotten over time, perhaps due to the sensitive classification of such a device, or if these lamps were simply some form of low intensity formation lamp and unremarkable in their use.

Don't quote me but AFAIK IR gear first appeared in the Vietnam war.

[deltayankee]

All the WW2 stories I have read talk about blue formation lights, so it appears to be a standard. These were clearly standard visible light devices and not infra red.

I have never heard the term resin used as a code word for anything but this means nothing since secret things are secret.

To give one example of a story mentioning the blue formation lights see Military.com Content (http://www.military.com/Content/MoreContent1/?file=dday_0042p1).

[zotbox]

18 Wheeler- thanks for your response- there were several IR detection and sighting systems in use by all sides during WW2, including the German "Kiel-Gerat" and "Spanner" systems, development of which had preceded the war by some margin.

Indeed RV jones himself carried out the first airborne interception of an aircraft using an IR detector of his own design from Farnborough in 1937.

The blue formation lights mentioned by DY are another possible explanation for these "Resin Lamps"

[Yellow Sun]

IIRC There was a Resin Light switch on the Varsity but I am not sure that any were actually fitted. There was certainly a Downward Ident light and that was used. Part of the night Radio Failure procedure was to flash "R" on it when joining the circuit.

YS

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

zotbox. I'm sure Dad said they were acquired from an Anson. Whether or not they were standard, I don't know but, at Woodford, they used to have all sorts of weird and wonderful things over at Flight Sheds.

If I had time I would go up in the roof and photograph them but I'd have to find the right box first!

[zotbox]

Thanks for all the responses, and thanks for the mentions of the Varsity and Anson, looks like these "Resin Lamps" where fairly commonplace.

I suspect that they are indeed some form of formation light but I will keep looking for the definitive answer.

Thanks again everyone.

[18-Wheeler]

Ah thanks very much, Zotbox, I never had any idea such gear was being developed so early.

[avionic type]

they were fitted to most bombers and fighters built in the latter part of WW2 they were on most early Meteor and Vampires plus Lancs and Halifaxes but ceased to be fitted after that time on new airplanes as has been said before they assisted in formation flying in wartime as they could not be seen from the ground:ok::ok:

[deltayankee]

The plot thickens...

I've mentioned this question to quite a few people and most of them have no idea or talk about rear-facing blue formation lights. One or two, though, have recollections that opaque white lights were indeed part of an infrared IFF system.

Nobody knows exactly how it worked and my friend Google is silent on the matter. I couldn't imagine them using an IR light in the unidentified aircraft and making the nightfighter crews wear IR goggles but apparently it did not work this way.

The most credible suggestion so far is that the nightfighter shone an infraded searchlight at the unidentified aircraft. This would be detected by the "resin lamps" which would then light up. These days you can buy systems based on a similar principle for infantry IFF. RV Jones never mentioned any such system but then maybe he was not told about it.

Your question reminds me that Google is very efficient for new stuff but most of the paper in the world is not in any searchable form. WW2 stories also tend to be useless sources for some systems simply because the pilots were never told the truth about the equipment in their aircraft so their memoirs are no help.

So it seems that the Mosquito quite likely had both formation lights and IR resin lights.

[Fareastdriver]

they were fitted to most bombers and fighters built in the latter part of WW2 they were on most early Meteor and Vampires plus Lancs and Halifaxes but ceased to be fitted after that time on new airplanes

The Puma HC1 which entered service in 1971 had blue formation lights fitted. One on top of each sponson and one on the doghouse. Flying formation at night with just the blue lights wasn't the most comforting of occupations but improved with NGVs as you could look down the exhaust shroud and see the power turbine lit up.

I don't know if they still have them. I hope not, it was ruddy dangerous.

[Tyres O'Flaherty]

Might be worth you posting a query on the ''Gaining an RAF pilot's brevet in ww2'' in the Mil forum, there's a guy ''Regle'' who flew mossies and heavies & instructed.

Sure he'd have an idea

[zotbox]

Thanks for all the replies!
It is a rather interesting conundrum, and as Delta-Yankee mentions google will only get you so far with this type of "before internet" question.
Unless someone has transcribed original documents across to the WWW the truth is probably in a box file at Kew or somewhere.
I agree with DY's analysis of how such a system might work, and although I can find photographs of German aircraft with IR sights on them, I can find none of so equipped allied aircraft. (Turbinlight being the only forward facing search light that I am aware of being used operationally, not counting the camouflage experiments I have read of)

I also wonder how long it would have taken the Germans to discover the nature of these lamps and exploit them, as they did with so much of the Allied airborne technology (and vice versa)- and whether this IR arms race would be known to modern historians

There does seem to be some basis to this rumour and I will have a mosey across to the mil forum and look up this Regle fella. (Thanks Tyres)

(they can be a bit rough over there though so I will tread carefully!)

On the subject of Blue formation lights, The Tornado F3 had them on the wings out near the trailing edge of the tips, the lenses were always cracking on them though so we seldom saw them used. If the Puma sported them as well it must have been the European equivalent to the American "Slime lights" or Low Intensity formation lights that abound these days.

[deltayankee]

although I can find photographs of German aircraft with IR sights on them, I can find none of so equipped allied aircraft.


Classic problem with secret kit. At the time it is secret no pictures are released. Aircraft surplus to requirement are carefully sanitized before ending up in civilian hands and by the time the need for secrecy has passed everyone has forgotten.

Yes, the solution lies probably in some dusty files unless you are lucky enough to find someone who worked on the system. Good luck with the search!

[cliffnemo]

Hi ZOTBOX, I read you query on my thread. Bearing in mind my memory ain't what it used to be. I don't think there was a resin lamp switch on our Lancasters on 150 Sqdn, and we had to draw and memorize every panel whilst at R.A.F St , Athan school of engineering , and can't remember any. However I have a friend, a Halton Apprentice and pilot (1938- 1950 ?) who was in charge of the Elvington Halifax bomber reconstruction. Will contact him, if he doesn't know, I would be very surprised .

[chevvron]

RAF Hercules in the '80s had them too.

[zotbox]

Cliffnemo:
thank you for your quick response, it was your detailled drawing of the instrument panel on your thread that made me think that you would remember such a system if it existed.

The thread that started my research in this area is over on Britmodeller; Post 11 contains pictures of the lamps in question on the trailing edge of a Mosquito aircraft in the De havilland museum. perhaps you might take a look and see if they ring any bells.

Mosquito Resin or IR Lights - Britmodeller.com (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=27665)

thanks again,

Zotbox

[stepwilk]

The IR technology that "first appeared" during the Vietnam War was an attempt to use IR as guidance for weapons--glideable bombs and the like. It would come to fruition much later, in the Gulf Wars, but Vietnam saw the first baby steps.

One of the types that carried this primitive stuff was the Schweizer sailplane-based Quietplanes that flew near-silently--actually you could hear them but they sounded more like a large flock of birds than an airplane--at night, but it was never really employed for its design purpose.

[forget]

I've been trying to figure out what possible acronyms could come from RESIN. It seems that, before IFF Transponders, an IFF system used two separate units. A RESponsor (?) and an INterrogator.

'Could be onto something Holmes'. :8

US Radar: Operational Characteristics of Radar Classified by Tactical Application [FTP 217] (http://www.history.navy.mil/library/online/radar-15.htm)

[Bushfiva]

The use of blue lights is interesting. The eye can focus on red very well, almost as well on green, but not very well on blue: you can tell a blue light is there, but typically you can't focus on it in the dark. Does blue have a meaning in aeronautics, akin to the colours for port and starboard? If not, why was blue used? Solely because it's readily distinguished from red and green?

[deltayankee]

I've been trying to figure out what possible acronyms could come from RESIN. It seems that, before IFF Transponders, an IFF system used two separate units. A RESponsor (?) and an INterrogator.

Good guess, but in those days codewords were usually selected at random from a list and codewords that might hint at their meaning were discouraged.

[Aerials]

Here's my guess at the reason for blue lights. At the height that the bomber streams operated, the lights would have appeared to be quite small and perhaps indistinguishable from the background stars.

Aerials

[handsfree]

Description of build up to Sicily landing in WWII mentions the resin lamp

HyperWar: US Army in WWII: Sicily and the Surrender of Italy [Chapter 5] (http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA-MTO-Sicily/USA-MTO-Sicily-5.html)

Relevant bit is:-

Arriving in North Africa in April 1943, the 52d Troop Carrier Wing was considered fully qualified in dropping parachutists and towing gliders, but only on daylight missions. Accordingly, the troop carrier units concentrated on night formation and navigational flying, using both normal navigation lights and, later, as proficiency increased, small and lavender-colored resin lights, which would be the only aids available during the Sicily operation. But no real effort was made by the wing to check the location of pinpoint drop zones at night. A night joint training program with airborne troops and carriers fared poorly

[forget]

deltayankee;
Good guess, but in those days codewords were usually selected at random from a list and codewords that might hint at their meaning were discouraged.

Not entirely correct. In fact, entirely wrong. :) Rainbow codes were not introduced until after the war so RESponsor (?) and INterrogator may well be valid.

The Rainbow Codes were a series of code names used to disguise the nature of various British military research projects from after the Second World War until 1958 when they were replaced by an alphanumeric code system. The Ministry of Supply (MoS) initiated the idea since during the war some German secret projects could be inferred from their code names; for example, that a radio navigation device "Wotan" used a single beam because the Germanic god Wotan was one-eyed. Wiki

[deltayankee]

The Rainbow Codes were...


Maybe practice varied according to department because RV Jones mentions the choice of meaningless codenames in his wartime memoirs.

Our friend The Wikipedia also says:


In the Second World War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_World_War), code names common to the Allies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allies) referring to nations, cities, geographical features, military units, military operations, diplomatic meetings, places, and individual persons were agreed upon adapting pre-war naming procedures in use by the governments concerned. Random lists of code names were issued to users in alphabetical blocks of ten words and were selected as required. Capricious selection from the available allocation could result in clever meanings and result in an aptronym (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aptronym) or backronym (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backronym) although policy was to select words that had no obviously deducible connection with what they were supposed to be concealing.


It is also possible, though, that the name resin just referred to the material used for some lamps.

[HighTow]

Just to add something on the matter of the use of IR in wartime.

A friend of mine had a few original copies of proposal documents liberated from the drawing office of G.A.L post war and one was for an assault glider. What was noticeable was that the specification specifically detailed that the instruments were to use IR reflective markings to be illuminated by and IR lamp in the cockpit and the cockpit interior painted matt black.

My interpretation is that this was to allow them to fly with the cockpit in total darkness as no visible lights shone but that the pilots would wear some sort of goggles that allowed them to read the dials. One wonders if this would also allowed them to see IR emitting formation lights fitted to the tug as well.

[cliffnemo]

I had a long phone call with my oppo, he of the Halifax rebuild, and he says he never heard of resin lamps. He is very knowledgeable, and told me that when he was in Italy, he designed an I.R lamp which would transmit a signal via aldis lamp, that was not visible to the human eye, but could be read by a two valve receiver some distance away . A thin sheet of ebonite ? was placed in front of the Aldis lamp, which then only emitted infra red, also known as black light, and was invisible. It was very successful, but when the C.O found out he was told to forget it, and get on with the work he was paid for.

Sorry CLIFFNEMO

[Blacksheep]

I was trained as an aircraft electrician in the early sixties on 1950s aircraft. An aircraft electrician would be required to know about any lamp on the aircraft, secret or not or else how would we test and relamp them? Yet I never encountered an Infra-Red lamp - though we did have Ultra-Violet cockpit lamps. These used a normal filament lamp behind a "U/V" filter and the lamps activated the instrument paint. The result was a dark cockpit with all visible lights turned off and only the instrument markings visible. Naturally, these lamps were referred to as "You-Vees".

The lights on the tail and wingtips were mostly navigation lights. When I worked on PA474 it had rear facing lights on the wingtips and these were referenced as "Formation Lights" They were dimmer than navigation lights and were on a separate circuit. We electricians understood them to be intended for night-time taxying and in the circuit; though for glider towing they might be useful for helping the glider pilot remain in position directly behind and slightly below the tug. The rear facing lamps on the deHavilland Heritage Centre Mossies appear to be these same formation lights.

[stevef]

A couple of UK-registered Dakotas I've worked on had (non-functioning & painted-over) blue formation lamps on the wings. From fading memory, they were about three inches in diameter and possibly two per side. I imagine these would be evidence of their RAF service days.

[Chugalug2]

Well, my old Varsity and Hastings Pilots Notes confirm that both were fitted with resin lights, and Identification Lights. I mention the latter merely to confess that I had no idea of their use either, other than that implicit in their title. The Varsity Notes merely mention where the RL light switch is. The Hastings Notes are more forthcoming; "The three resin lights in each wing tip are controlled by an on/off master switch and a GREEN-CLEAR-RED selector switch.". BTW the Downward ID Lights para says; " The three downward identification lights in the fuselage nose are controlled by a switch on the coaming panel. Red, green or amber can be selected and, by pushing up the small lever on the morsing switchbox, the selected lamp can be used for morsing". It infers that the "colour of the day" and the associated code word could thus be displayed, but such techniques were long abandoned by my time (>1962) together with whatever one used to do with resin lights. Regarding the name, many components were then known by the manufacturers tradename (ie Graviner switches, Decca navigator, etc), though I've never heard of such a company as "Resin".
PS Have just dug out my old AP129 vol2. Under Night Formation it reads; "If dim/bright navigation lights are fitted, the dim setting should be used but,when available, resin lights are much better". So that appears to define their use and their properties, ie they were very dim and thus did not dazzle when in formation at night. It appears that the colours were somewhat variable from the blue of Mossies through to "traffic lights" on Hastings! Could the name be a reference to the dimness of a light shining through resin?
PPS Or how about simply REStricted INtensity lights?

[zotbox]

Thanks for all the replies Gents, I think that we are actually getting somewhere close to the function of these lights, especially with your quote from the AP for the Varsity Mr Chugalug!

Thanks to Clliffnemo for contacting his oppo as well!

[zotbox]

Gents,

I have found the following tantalising reference in the National Archive catalogue:

AVIA 15/1436 "Aircraft; General- ID and Recognition (code 5/5); Air to air recognition lights, Resin system"

Anyone off to Kew soon?

I have applied fior an estimate to copy this document. I will off course let you know how I get on.

Regards,

Zotbox

[HighTow]

Try the TNA Digital Express service - 10 images from the file sent in JPEG format for £8.50 usually delivered within 24 hrs.

[sooty655]

Anyone off to Kew soon?



I will be spending several days at TNA Kew in May. If you haven't had a result before that, pm me and I will have a look at the file.

Sooty

[zotbox]

Thank you very much for your kind offer Sooty, I will let you know if I can't get access to the files myself.

Cheers,

Zotbox

[Blacksheep]

Yes, REStricted INtensity would sound about right. The ordinary nav lights had a dim/bright selection and the position lights were on a separate circuit with no dim selection; I can't remember what rating the filaments were.

Edit: On another BB they were discussing Mosquito lights and the Resin Lights on a Mossie in a US museum were mentioned as having a metal cover with a vertical slit that restricted the viewing angle of the light to within a narrow angle directly to the rear of the aircraft. I never saw such covers, but that configuration would be logical in wartime conditions.

http://www.mossie.org/images/Phil_Broad/RS712_ext/ERS712-41.jpg

REStricted INcidence perhaps?

[deltayankee]

I have found the following tantalising reference in the National Archive catalogue:

AVIA 15/1436 "Aircraft; General- ID and Recognition (code 5/5); Air to air recognition lights, Resin system"

Anyone off to Kew soon?

I have applied fior an estimate to copy this document. I will off course let you know how I get on.



So, how did you get on?

[Mike Read]

Slightly off thread. However in about 1963/4 at 229 OCU Chivenor we did some night formation training in Hunters. Bear in mind that the intention for this unnatural aviation was for day fighters to take off before dawn or land after dusk. The Hunter had neither resin lights, as some Meteors had, or the bright/dim facility for the nav lights. Or landing/taxy lights! In formation the lead aircraft's nav lights would dazzle no 2. ( Never flew more than a pair ) We found that the best way to do it was for the lead to turn off his nav lights and the no 2's would then illuminate the lead's aircraft. It worked OK but useless if you went through cloud.

I only used this technique once in anger when being escorted by a Canberra whilst ferrying a Hunter to Singapore. Having asked the Akrotiri station nav what time it would be dark in Teheran he obviously got it wrong as we flew east and the last hour of the flight was in darkenss.

[18-Wheeler]

18 Wheeler- thanks for your response- there were several IR detection and sighting systems in use by all sides during WW2, including the German "Kiel-Gerat" and "Spanner" systems, development of which had preceded the war by some margin.

By coincidence, there was a documentary on the telly a few days ago and they mentioned the German system - I thought of this thread. :)

[zotbox]

Delta Yankee- Unfortunately I could not afford the £400 odd that it would cost to get a digital copy of the entire file, and as I haven't seen the file I cannot select any specific pages to be copied either!

I am currently planning a visit to kew, but as I don't have a readers card I may have to go over two days, day one to register for a readers card and then to access the file on day two.

This subject has cropped up again recently and hence my return to this thread!

If any PPruners can help with the contents of file AVIA15/1436 I would be extremely grateful.

cheers,

Zotbox

[Double Zero]

Just a quickie; WWII codenames certainly did at least some times hint at their operation, i.e. PLUTO - Pipe Line Under The Ocean...

[PAFG]

Hi, first timer here so apologies for coming to the party late. I can confirm that Resin Lights, whatever they were for, were fitted to Lancasters. I have an 83 Squadron 'Pilot's Questionnaire' from the period of their conversion in 1942. This includes questions on the position of resin light switches and the rules for their use. They are also an item on the cockpit check list issued as part of the 7 Group Lanc I and III drills dated Jan 45.

Whatever their function, they were not part of an I.R. detection system. The only I.R. system on the Lancaster formed a part of the 'Village Inn' Automatic Gun Laying system, which was never made fully operational during the war. You can see the evidence of its introduction though, as the Bomb Aimer's nose blister aquired two distinctive circular fittings from summer 1944 - these were I.R. transmitters to identify the aircraft as friendly to bombers fitted with a 'Village Inn' rear turret.

Hope this helps,

Richard

[Aerials]

I'm nothing to do with the seller, but there's a couple on e-Bay at the moment, item number 190385911209. Hope that helps.
Regards, Aerials

[682al]

I've come late to this thread, too.

I concur with PAFG in that I understand resin lamps to have been in widespread use during WW2, for the purpose of formation keeping and recognition in the air.

I cannot recall ever seeing a reference to the use of I.R. technology for this purpose (other than the Village Green equipment already referred to) but maybe some experiments were carried out.

I agree with Chugalug 2's suggestion that use of the word 'resin' stems from the coloured discs of such material in the caps that feature in the ebay ad. that Aerials refers us to.

Here is an extract from Volume 3 of a set of books I compiled a few years ago, which illustrate and describe a lot of British wartime aircraft equipment. The highlights are not mine, it's Microsoft trying to point out the errors in my grammar and spelling.

Much of the information was taken from original Air Publications and other technical documents.

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae324/Air_Ministry/18-04-201010-09-43.png

[avionic type]

thank goodness 682al has come up with the "final solution "I have been wracking my brains as to what filament we fitted to the a/c I worked on back in the distant and dim past I thought they were about 7watts but I stand corrected all I remember was they were very low and to see them in daylight you had to cup both hands round them and peer into the gloom how the heck aircrew saw them I'll never know.:D:D:D

[18-Wheeler]

18 Wheeler- thanks for your response- there were several IR detection and sighting systems in use by all sides during WW2, including the German "Kiel-Gerat" and "Spanner" systems, development of which had preceded the war by some margin.

Indeed RV jones himself carried out the first airborne interception of an aircraft using an IR detector of his own design from Farnborough in 1937.


Bump time - I'm just reading the excellent book, "Most Secret War", by RV Jones, and one thing in it so far that really surprises me is that he talks about how, in 1936, he was mucking around with infra-red detection gear. Towards the end of '36 or '37 they got it so good it could pick up an aircraft in flight by the friction generated by the air flowing over the leading edge of the wings. I was very impressed by that, as only a couple of years before the best they could do was detect a hot engine out in the open breeze, but not an engine with an enclosed cowling. Then shortly after they could detect the exhaust gasses, and then the other warmer parts of the structure. I don't know how the information was presented, but they really could do it nearly 80 years ago.

[Edgar Brooks]

Research, in Kew, continues, and many files remain, but discoveries, so far, are that there were two infra-red recognition systems in use during mid/late WWII, types "Z" & "F." "Z" was used on bombers, and was not "Village Inn," though it was allied to it. "F" was used on fighters, initially just twin-engined, but later extended to some single-engined.
Findings, so far, are that "Z" included forward "firing" IR lamps, which could be picked up by the tailgunner of a preceding bomber, if he had an IR scope attached to his guns.
The exact set-up of "F" still remains to be found, but, on at least two papers, in a file on both systems, there is mention of the length of time that resin lamps should be used, which tends to confirm that, by mid-to-late war, they were part of the IR set-up. The lamps were supposed to flash a Morse letter ("E" was found to be unsuitable,) which could be changed at certain intervals.
A 1942 recognition leaflet contains a section on resin lamps, with the warning that they are not to carried more than a few miles off the coast of the U.K., which also indicates that, by then, their use was now secret. It also says that some fighters are carrying them as an extra tail lamp on the trailing edge of the rudder.
"Village Inn" was a radar-equipped rear turret, which could detect enemy, and friendly, aircraft, with the gunner using the scope to interrogate them for the forward-exposing IR lamps, from a reasonable range. As well as the IR scope, V.I. included a gyro gunsight (type IIC, while fighters carried IID,) which enabled the gunner to engage an enemy at deflection angles, without the need for night vision-destroying tracer.
A friend of mine, about 20 years ago, put a request into Aeroplane Monthly, asking about resin lamps, and, at first, only got letters from former pilots, complaining about how useless they were as formation lights, because they were so dim; he finally heard from a man, still working in the industry, who told him all about the lamps and the IR scopes, which were fitted to Mosquito nightfighters but removed, and locked in a cupboard after each sortie. He also said that bomber pilots were never told of their true purpose, so that, if captured, they didn't inadvertently give away the information.

[mike-wsm]

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q594/mike-wsm/pprune/IMGP1248-1-1_zps2aa39a7c.jpg



My grateful thanks for all the information on WWII aircraft lighting. A friend at our church model club intends to build a large scale model Avro Lancaster and asked me to help with the lights. After searching many pages, including this one, I found twenty lights, including cockpit, navigator, w/op, navigation, formation, downward signalling, forward signalling, landing/taxy and dambuster spots.

Pending completion of the model, I am building a mock-up with a switch panel and a plan view of a Lanc with all the lights on. Above is a trial assembly of the panel.

[PAXboy]

Coming to this thread for the first time (due to mike-wsm's post today) and have read every post and can add some information, although more negative.

My late father operated in Night Fighters continously from September 1941 to the end of hostilities. he also wrote a book about it, published in 1999.

I do not have time to check the book today (I do have it electronically and can search it) but I do not recall him ever mentioning 'Resin lights'. One early night formation aid (Blenheim) was a white strip on the underside of a wing, illuminated by a dim bulb but that was abandoned.

My father operated in Beaus and then Mossies, primarily with 141 Sq. He was WO/Nav and they specialised in the various radar devices, from soon after they started. In Mossies, they were in the Bomber Support Defence Unit (BSDU) and followed the bombers out and back. However, they were independent of each other and did not fly formation. I'll see if I can find the time to search the files.

[mike-wsm]

PAXboy - very interesting - my second cousin was in 141 Squadron and wrote a book called simply 'Night Fighter'
Bob Braham - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Braham)