Trip to Ireland

[Genghis the Engineer]

Weather permitting, I'm planning a trip to Ireland in about a week, which somehow I've got this far without doing before.

Could I beg a favour of anybody who has done the trip recently to check my plan for glaring errors.


- VFR

- Booker --(~90mins)--> Cardiff --(~150mins)--> Galway.

- To save time, file a flight plan at Booker from Cardiff.

- Needless to say carry lifejackets and an ELT, talk to ATC all the way.

- Clear both customs and special branch at Cardiff.

- Notify Galway well in advance.

- Usual weather/NOTAM/flight planning best practice to be followed.

- Plan on arriving at destination with 1 hour+ fuel left.


Now the bits I'm less sure of so advice gratefully appreciated.

- Do I need to prior-notify either customs or special branch at Cardiff?

- Is 90 minutes on the ground in Cardiff likely to be enough for formalities and fuelling?

- Once in Irish airspace, what are the VFR radio services and standard calls?

- Anything important that I've missed?

G

[irish seaplane]

I do the reverse crossing quite often. If you need to stop en route, use Haverfordwest - no doubt. They'll sort out the customs end for you if you ring them. Have an estimate for Slaney or whatever point you plan to cross the FIR at, and one for coasting in. You'll put transfered at the FIR to Shannon on 127.50 and given a new squawk. If Wx is bad in Ireland there are lots of strips to stop at near wexford, they should be all included in latest software update for a Garmin 296 etc. Probably 20nm from Galway you'll be transferred to them, and given a join usually straight in. Its not that busy.

If I were you and could use 320m I'd land in Claregalway. Its 1.4nm from EICM and has no fee's at all. 04/22 and nice dry field. Does me the finest.

Irish

[daveyb]

Genghis,
Galway is not a very GA friendly airport Sligo&Knock airports are much more accomdating.

I know when doing xc nav my school goes to Sligo i have attached a list of freq for the airports in ireland..

you can contact the guys&gals on the forum there very helpfull.

davey



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International Airports
AirportTowerGroundApproachATISClearanceICAODublin118.60 MHz121.80 MHz121.10 MHz124.525 MHz121.87 MHzEIDWCork119.30 MHz121.85 MHz119.90 MHz120.925 MHzNILEICKShannon118.70 MHz121.80 MHz121.40 MHz130.95 MHzNILEINNKnock
(Ireland West)
130.70 MHz121.90 MHzNILNILNILEIKN
Regional Airports
AirportTowerGroundATISICAODonegal129.80 MHz129.80 MHz129.925 MHzEIDLGalway122.50 MHZ121.825 MHzNILEICMKerry123.325 MHz121.60 MHzNILEIKYSligo122.10 MHz122.10 MHzNILEISGWaterford129.85 MHz121.60 MHz121.15 MHzEIWF
Airfields
AirfieldFrequencyTypeICAOAbbeyshrule122.60 MHzA/GEIABAerphort Chonamara123.00 MHzA/GEICABallyboy118.55 MHzA/GEIMHBantry122.40 MHzA/GEIBNBelmullet123.60 MHzA/GEIBTBirr122.95 MHzA/GEIBRClonbullogue128.55 MHzA/GEICLCoonagh129.90 MHzA/GEICNErinagh118.175 MHzA/GEIERHacketstown129.90 MHzA/GEIHNInisheer123.00 MHzA/GEIIRInishmaan123.00 MHzA/GEIMNInishmore123.00 MHzA/GEIIMKilkenny122.90 MHZA/GEIKKKilrush123.425 MHzA/GEIKHMoyne123.75 MHzA/GEIMYNewcastle122.55 MHzA/GEINCRathcooleNILNILEIRTTrevet118.275 MHzA/GEITTTrim123.30 MHzA/GEITMWeston122.40 MHzTWREIWTPLEASE NOTE THAT THE FREQUENCIES ABOVE ARE GIVEN FOR REFERENCE ONLY. WHILE EVERY ATTEMPT IS MADE TO KEEP THIS PAGE UP TO DATE, PILOTS SHOULD REFERENCE THE IRISH AIP BEFORE FLYING. FLYINGINIRELAND CANNOT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR OUT OF DATE INFORMATION
Other Useful Frequencies
The frequencies below may not always be manned and some are only open depending on air traffic requirements, density and prevailing weather. In some cases some may also be stand-by airport frequencies.
StationServiceFrequencyCorkTWR121.70 MHzCorkRADAR118.80 MHzDublinAPP119.55 MHzDublinHOLD119.55 MHzDublinFIS119.925 MHzDublinACC129.175 MHzDublinACC124.65 MHzDublinACC136.05 MHzDublinACC136.15 MHzDublinFIS118.50 MHzDublinFIS120.05 MHzShannonTWR121.80 MHzShannonAPP120.20 MHzShannonRADAR121.40 MHzShannonACC124.70 MHzShannonACC127.50 MHz
High Level Frequencies
StationServiceFrequencySectorShannonACC131.15 MHzCorkShannonACC135.60 MHzSOTAShannonACC134.280 MHzShannonShannonACC134.63 MHzShannonShannonACC119.075 MHzShannon NorthShannonACC121.50 MHzEMERGENCY FREQShannonACC132.15 MHzBABAN / DEVOLShannonACC121.70 MHzOceanic ClearanceShannonACC135.23 MHzSOTAShannonACC122.975 MHzNOTAShannonACC125.875 MHzNOTA
ACCArea Control CentreGNDGroundTWRTowerRADARRADAR ServiceAPPApproachHOLDHOLD ControllerFISFlight Information ServiceATISAutomated Terminal Information ServiceA/GAir to Ground RadioSOTASouthern Oceanic Transition AreaNOTANorthern Oceanic Transition Area



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[7AC]

Unless you have a serious reason to use Cardiff I'd use Haverfordwest or Swansea.
Cardiff is very expensive for small G.A.
The other two places are very pleasant and efficient.

[jonkil]

Do this trip a few times a year by microlight.
Use Haverfordwest instead of Cardiff. London will want an estimate for the FIR boundary where you will be handed over to Shannon and will be given a new squak and they will want you to report "coasting in" at Waterford.
Unless you specifically want to go to Galway then use somewhere else. Galway is not GA friendly and will issue you with fees for "using their airspace !" as well as expensive parking and landing fees.
As other posters have stated there is Sligo/Donegal/Eglington/Enniskillen/Abbeyschrule/Birr/Kilkenny/Clonbollogue/trim/Kilrush and a host of grass strips.
Irish airspace is relatively free class G, except in and around Dublin,so no problem flying here.
The FIS you will use in the south will be Shannon on 127.50, but generally you will work the regional airfields. Parachute drop zones around Clonbologue and some strip where there is busy microlight activity at the weekends.
Drop me a PM if you need anything else...... enjoy.

Jon

[Genghis the Engineer]

Thanks everybody - Haverfordwest seems to be my transit option. Re: Galway - I really need 600m+ for my aircraft and also am going to 3 days of meetings in Galway itself, so I doesn't *seem* to me that I have another option.

G

[englishal]

The easy way, would be to fax / email SB the GAR form min of 12 hrs before departure from Booker. That is all you NEED to do to GO TO Southern Ireland.

On the way back you need to tell Customs too (12 hrs notice before arrival back for CU and SB), so what I'd do to cover my arse is fax / email the GAR to SB and Customs in one go before departure but also indicating return dates and times on it if known. In other words 1 email, 1 GAR copied to SB and NCU, with both departure dates and times and arrival dates and times on it. Don't expect a reply though!

I filed my FP using the AFPEx website - brilliant it is too. You could then stop anywhere you want enroute - Havaford West for example.....

[dublinpilot]

Genghis

I wrote an article on this a few years ago that you might find helpful.

Flying in Ireland (http://dublinpilot.bizhat.com/Flying_in_Ireland.htm)

One thing that you should be careful of is Irish customs requirements. This has changed since I wrote the article, and unfortunately is very disjointed.

Your obligation (from what Customs tell me) is that you need to inform your airport of arrival and departure (in/from Ireland) that you intend to make an international flight. Some airports may impost additional obligations on you. Eg. Weston want 24 hours notice to the airfiled with details similar to a UK GAR. Other airfields want you to notify customs directly with different time limits.

Galway maybe happy with no notification since they have some commerical flights there. Best to ask about this at least 24 hours in advance so that you know what you have to do (if anything).

Also check the notams carefully. Opening hours can change, as can AVGAS availability. These will be published in the notams.

ATC services available outside controlled airspace is just a FIS. We don't have different levels of service like in the UK. Our FIS is very similar to your old RIS/new Traffic Service. If you use the standard RT from the UK for requesting a traffic service just changing TS for FIS, you'll do fine. RT is much more relaxed here.

As mentioned before, you're likely to be asking Shannon Info for the FIS on 127.5mhz. This covers the whole country outside controlled airspace except under the Dublin CTA.

dp

[Brooklands]

Genghis,

Galway was discusssed recent on the Flyer Forums in this thread (http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=53415).

Brooklands

[jollyrog]

If you decide on Haverfordwest, I suggest you land at Waterford. They are a customs/immigration airport. You can fax them a copy of your GAR - they don't need it as such, but it has all the information on it that their customs/immigration people will want.

On the way back, you can fill up duty free, provided you are departing on a FPL to the UK.

It's dead easy to find too. Open early to very late, fuel always available and a friendly, "no hassle" place.

[soay]

Needless to say carry lifejackets
At this time of the year, lifejackets are pointless, unless you're also wearing an immersion suit. Without one, you'd be very lucky to survive long enough to be rescued (http://www.ussartf.org/cold_water_survival.htm) in water at 8 deg C (see getaforecast.com (http://www.getaforecast.com/weatherpix-seatemp.htm)).

[sevenstar]

Flight plan is required for any flight into, outof or transiting class c airspace and allso for crossing FIR boundary. Thankfully there isnt much class c except for around the main airports (dub,sha,crk,crn,slg,idl,con,ker,wtd) evrything else is class g upto fl75 and above that is class c again. Again as posted before we dont do all the different classes of airspace like the UK just classC and G so in effect you are either in controlled airpace or your not.

It will be interesting to here your opinions of galway and your experience of operating thru' there as they dont have the best reputation when it comes to GA

PS pooleys ireland flight guide is excellent and has all the info you would ever need for operating in ireland and is the one i would recommend.

[Johnm]

Useful thread from my point of view as I'm planning an Easter trip with my lad.

Currently intend

Kemble Haverfordwest Waterford, stay overnight in Waterford and then go to Weston for an overnight in Dublin then Weston DCT Kemble (I'm assuming D201 will be having an Easter holiday)

[gamekeeper/poacher]

Genghis,
Now that you are back how did the trip go? Was using Haverfordwest soemthing you woudl recommend?

[Genghis the Engineer]

Well I came, I stopped in Ireland, and I got back with me and the aeroplane intact, so broadly speaking - a success.


Detail: planning first of all. Things I didn't organise in sufficient time: Irish airfields guide, and VFR Chart. The former I solved by downloading pages from the IAIP and the latter by buying it from Haverfordwest en-route. Both worked fine although on another occasion I'd order Pooleys Ireland, and the chart, well in advance.

Planning a departure on Sunday afternoon, and having to file details 24 hours in advance I phoned Special Branch on Saturday morning to discover that they don't work weekends (presumably terrorists are only expected to work office hours). Fortunately, a bit of digging around found me a number for a duty inspector who I called, he got his local expert to phone me up, and I filed my intentions over the phone. That worked fine.

Filing a flightplan was my first encounter with the new online booking system (warning - if you want to do it yourself, you need to apply for a login, so can't do it immediately - get a login and have a play with it in advance). This I did via the airfield's own login. It worked - but was slow and I did need a bit of help getting it right.

Okay, then flying. Easy route: Booker, CPT, Cricklade, Severn Bridge, BCN, Carnarfon, Haverfordwest. Nice flying, good views, easy navigation - took me about 2 hours. We arrived at Haverfordwest just in time to get a cup of tea, then bought the chart I needed (yes, I had arranged this in advance), and refuelled from automatic pumps. General views on Haverfordwest - quiet, well managed, reasonable value (£10 landing fee), friendly helpful people. Not a lot to do there, but a perfectly good en-route airfield.

En-route RT was initially with London Information, who then passed me over to Shannon at the FIR boundary. Hint: be prepared in both directions to give your time estimate for the FIR boundary because you will be asked. Both were thoroughly helpful.

Then had planned a route which was direct(ish) to Galway - about another 2 hours. This worked fine until I got towards the Irish coast when forecast lowish cloud and ok-ish visibility turned out to be deteriorating badly and the cloud had dropped onto the 2000ish foot hills in the middle of Ireland - not viable VFR. I discussed this with Shannon who were fine about it and we agreed a provisional diversion to Waterford - so I turned left and followed the coast to the Waterford overhead. This was all fine and visibility remained useable, if not good. However, overhead Waterford I asked for met at Shannon and Galway - it was completely unuseable for me.

Decision: divert to Waterford.

Tracking the met for a couple of hours it became clear that we weren't going to Galway that night, so arranged to tie down on the grass in front of the Aero Club, and the airport were great - arranging for a good price on a couple of hotel rooms in the middle of town.

So we had a pleasant evening in Waterford, and got back into the airport in the morning. The weather was clear, flyable, with wind down the runway, good visibility and a nice high cloudbase. Sadly TAFs and METARs didn't show this in Shannon or Galway. We sat through a couple of met re-issues but this didn't change and we actually did need to go to Galway

So, the airport were again great - they called up the local car hire chappie, who hired us a small car, and we drove ourselves up to Galway. I do not recommend this! 90nm in a straight line: 3:45 ! Irish roads are not designed for continuous flow of traffic, and the road signeage is not uniformly good!



Coming back 2 days later - we drove back again from Galway to Waterford. The roads were even slower - 4:45. I'd had a chat to ATC at Waterford however who gave me everything I needed to file a flight plan on the phone so whilst my colleague drove, I planned and phoned. I realised that with the diversion to Waterford and little wind (it was, unusually, easterly, but only around 5 knots), I could make it back to Booker in one hop.

Great. Planned that. Filed a flight plan. Phoned UK special branch to notify the change - no play. Under no circumstances would they consider a change in port of entry.

So, re-planned via Haverfordwest again, re-filed, and finally after a tortuous drive got airborne at 1620L (1520Z). Waterford were again brilliantly helpful, the charges very reasonable (E15 landing, fuel, no parking fees on the grass by the aero club) - just if you use the place be aware that you need to go through security to get to your aircraft, so no sharp objects.

Easy 1:10 hour flight to Haverfordwest - I'd phoned ahead to confirm that fuel would be available and it was. One quick note - you need a credit card for fuel, but cheque or cash for landing fees: it's just how the local system works. No sight of any police, customs, etc. anywhere - so what the hell were Special Branch getting so precious about.

Airborne again I was back at Booker in 2:00 by the same route I'd come out (before anybody asks, yes I do have an out of hours permit for Booker), landing after the airfield had closed, but about 15 minutes before legal night. Cutting it, frankly, rather tighter than I wanted to, but ultimately safe and legal and I'd planned an en-route diversion which would have been deeply inconvenient but still also safe and legal.

On the whole, good fun, flying in Ireland was very pleasant and I liked the very user-friendly attitude from everything in Ireland except for road traffic.

Lessons learned:
- Buy charts and airfield guide well in advance
- Try and do customs, flight plan and special branch notification a few days early to give time to sort any snags out.
- Don't try and change your special branch details the same day, however good your reasons.
- At all costs, try and avoid driving in the Republic of Ireland. It's not actually dangerous, just painfully unproductive.
- Don't be at-all surprised if nobody ever asks to see your passport, aircraft documentation, or anything else.

G

[corsair]

At all costs, try and avoid driving in the Republic of Ireland. It's not actually dangerous, just painfully unproductive.
- Don't be at-all surprised if nobody ever asks to see your passport, aircraft documentation, or anything else. So true, you need plenty of time when you drive to anywhere except between the bigger cities. Roads signs sometimes seem to be works of fiction.:)

ATC is very relaxed and helpful. I once asked for FL120 in controlled airspace without a flight plan. No problem.

Pity about all the driving. A better option if you had been able to get there would have been Weston Airport. It's situated right beside the motorway to Galway. A much easier drive, two and a half hours roughly.

Waterford airport as you found, is very friendly. Galway not so. They also close at odd times and last year they closed early for some reason in spite of the fact that there were two solo students on the way, flight plans filed, forcing one into a fuel diversion and other getting a bit lost because of the unexpected diversion. Most Irish pilots avoid Galway if possible because of their attitude. Once I was getting fuel and the fueler tried to collect landing and parking fees off us at the same time as if we were trying to get away with something. Having said that I find ATC there quite helpful. It's more an airport management rip off mentality. I have certain similaropinions about Galway city in general too.

[EddieHeli]

Do special branch actually have the authority to refuse you permission to change port of entry? What if you had rung ahead and Haverfordwest had been unusable due to an accident or something closing the runway.
I would have thought that by notifying them beforehand with the 24hrs notice as required complies with the regs, and then phoning them within the 24hrs of an intended change would be perfectly reasonable imo. After all the bad guys wouldn't bother at all, so the fact you are notifying them should suffice, what if you had had to divert due to weather on route. They wouldn't have been notified until after you had landed at the diversion.
As you say they didn't even have the courtesy to meet you at Haverfordwest having made you go to the trouble of landing there.
Why do I think we are living in a police state?

[Johnm]

I would have thought that by notifying them beforehand with the 24hrs notice as required complies with the regs, and then phoning them within the 24hrs of an intended change would be perfectly reasonable imo. After all the bad guys wouldn't bother at all, so the fact you are notifying them should suffice, what if you had had to divert due to weather on route.

Interesting one this, the rules are a bit ambiguous but I've always taken the view my obligation is to give them notice not ask their permission.

The relevant bit is from Schedule 7 of the Terrorism Act 2000

Where an aircraft is employed on a journey to which this paragraph applies otherwise than to carry passengers for reward, the captain of the aircraft shall not permit it to call at or leave a port in Great Britain or Northern Ireland unless—
(a) the port is a designated port, or
(b) he gives at least 12 hours' notice in writing to a constable for the police area in which the port is situated (or, where the port is in Northern Ireland, to a member of the Royal Ulster Constabulary).

[Genghis the Engineer]

Carmarthen (not Caernarfon which is in the north).

Seemed like a great trip. The car journey will be story you can tell for years to come:ok:!

Indeed, and thanks for the correction. The car journey I will be trying hard to forget!

G

[Genghis the Engineer]

Do special branch actually have the authority to refuse you permission to change port of entry? What if you had rung ahead and Haverfordwest had been unusable due to an accident or something closing the runway.
I would have thought that by notifying them beforehand with the 24hrs notice as required complies with the regs, and then phoning them within the 24hrs of an intended change would be perfectly reasonable imo. After all the bad guys wouldn't bother at all, so the fact you are notifying them should suffice, what if you had had to divert due to weather on route. They wouldn't have been notified until after you had landed at the diversion.
As you say they didn't even have the courtesy to meet you at Haverfordwest having made you go to the trouble of landing there.
Why do I think we are living in a police state?

I suspect that you are right but, on the whole, I decided that a short stop at Haverfordwest and moderate inconvenience and cost to myself, had less potential to cause me severe agro than upsetting Her Majesty's Constabulary.

On the whole, I felt that making a route change on a VFR flight, within the capability of my aircraft, ending at the same airfield, was no great issue. But, I felt that upsetting the police might be - so went for the path of least resistance.

G