Best place for Tailwheel PPL Course in UK?

[irish seaplane]

I want to send the better half away to learn how to fly properly. She's been learning by osmosis off me, and given she has the summer off, its time to put some paperwork/footwork her way. She's off to sit the writtens at Easter.

What I want to suss out is any recommendations for a residential PPL course on a Tailwheeler.... I see Clacton Aero Club offer such a thing, and tried to call them there. Will chat them tm and see. There must be a few other places that can offer something and will try the Tiger Club and Goodwood to see. Is there anywhere else that is worth a call.

Wont be sending her to America - Rwys too long and Wx too good.

Places to try?

Irish

[fernytickles]

"Wont be sending her to America - Rwys too long and Wx too good"

I beg to differ - its sleeting & raining right now, blowing sideyways and overcast :yuk:

And we have lots of perfeck, short, grass strips. When the snow clears off them :ok:

['India-Mike]

Prestwick Flying Club have three ab-initio student PPL's learning on Chipmunks. All three first soloed on Chipmunks.

I think we might struggle to support a residential student - we have no on-site accomodation, and all our t/w instructors have other jobs so instructor availability might be a problem, especially before July.

However feel free to pm.

[Lister Noble]

I did my tailwheel conversion at Clacton, over a period of days due to weather.
Good tuition,friendly club,teach on a Super Cub,lady CFI so she should be able to sort out suitable accomodation.
Reasonably good access to Stansted or Norwich.
I think there may be a tailwheel conversion course at Norwich,but know nothing about it.
Lister

[irish seaplane]

fernytickles - Ye can keep that snow and wind there, had enough all winter. The TSA hassle has taken good out of going to the states. Did it myself but think the UK needs any business it can get.

Not sure about a chipmunk - She's going to be flying my Cub after it so best to stick with something similar.....

Irish

[dragqueen120]

I can sort a tail wheel PPL PM me for more dtails. will be based notts way and be loads cheaper.

[mary meagher]

Shenington Gliding Club (google the website) has 2 resident Supercub towplanes, and one is available for instruction with Christine. Accomodation at the gliding club is very very very reasonable, although primitive. Located in the midlands, with plenty of sunshine (last week, anyhow).

If you want more upmarket accomodation, that is available nearby.

You would both be very welcome. Irish glider pilots have been here before.

[J.A.F.O.]

NSOF at Sibson are excellent.

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi irish seaplane,

This is something I posted some time ago for someone else's benefit, but I am so concerned about tailwheel instruction standards that I thought I should post it again for your own benefit. So here's a little word of caution.

I learned to fly in 1960 at a time when we were all taildragger pilots, although then it was called flying an aircraft with a 'conventional undercarriage'. (You were thought posh if you flew a tricycle in those days). This was followed by very many years when, for various reasons, I couldn't fly at all.

Then in 2005 I resumed flying and, after renewing my PPL, I decided I wanted to go back onto taildraggers. I then learned the hard way that the quality of taildragger training available had become, shall we say, 'variable'.

To be a competent taildragger pilot, you need to be taught two ways of landing the aircraft; the 'three point' landing and the 'wheeler' or 'roller' landing. The wheeler landing is especially valuable for cross-wind landings, especially in a strong wind and particularly in some low-wing aeroplanes.

Nowadays, they seem to teach you to land cross-wind by stalling in, one wing down, onto one mainwheel and the tailwheel. When I was shown this method in 2005 I had never even seen it before; it was new to me.

I soon realised, however, that this method works fine in a light to moderate cross-wind, but if the wind is strong or gusty then you definitely need the wheeler landing technique. I did ask to revise wheeler landings with my instructor, but he said "no, do it this way" and insisted I stick to the stalling-in method.

Not long afterwards, when landing in a strong and gusting crosswind by the stalling-in method, I ground-looped the aircraft. I am certain that if I had been using the wheeler landing technique, this would never have happened because the tailfin would have been kept up in the slipstream that much longer. Perhaps this sort of thing may be one reason why taildraggers have now acquired such a reputation for ground-looping, which they never had years ago.

So far, I have not found anywhere today where they teach wheeler landings, at least not without being asked specifically to do so. I asked at my club and could find no one willing to do it.

I have even heard of places where they don't teach cross-wind landings in taildraggers at all.

Whoever you do eventually choose for your better half, do make sure they have the capability to teach her properly.

Broomstick.

[irish seaplane]

Thanks broomstick for your consideration for her... She's been sitting beside me for nearly 5 years now flying the Cub on wheels/floats and more recently the C180. She's listened to countless hours of me mulling over xwinds/sideslopes/upslopes/long grass/big waves etc and sure I've bored her half to death with it. A Super Cub is a relatively easy machine to wheel land, and if you were as good as some of the pro's in AK etc every landing would be a wheel landing ala "Big Rocks...Bent Props". Whats important as you state is to find somewhere with high quality instructors who wont balk at imparting all the methods and technique needed to fly out of the places/conditions that we get in the rural parts of the world. Don't let one ground loop put you off, some of the best tailwheel men I know have groundlooped a time or two. Stick with it.

Point taken though


Irish

[Canuck Spin]

WLAC at White Waltham offer tail wheel training on a Cub (as you mentioned that is what she would be flying afterwards anyway) and certainly offer the opportunity to try out short-strips and wheeler landings if that is what you would like.

Plus there is usually no problem with instructors as there are several very good tail wheel conversion instructors available to suit. Only thing is I'm pretty sure they have no on-site accommodation but certainly not far from a variety of B&Bs/hotels/motels and of course London....

[Sam Rutherford]

My better half is off to Florida in May for 10 days to get her tailwheel endorsement, and JAA night rating.

Great training, great weather, great prices and, er, great shopping! The flight and renting a whole house, with pool (!) is less than USD1000 - with dual tailwheel training under USD130/hour, and the night stuff even less.

Sorry Europe, but it's just so much easier stateside.

Sam.


PS no TSA, no visas etc. etc. required...

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi irish seaplane,

Don't let one ground loop put you off, some of the best tailwheel men I know have groundlooped a time or two. Stick with it.

Thanks for your encouragement, irish, but you have no need to worry. I continued flying a converted C 152 'Texas Taildragger' for months after the incident I described until I eventually left the club.

I also learned from that episode how to diagnose an approaching groundloop before it happens, so that has been useful.

All my subsequent flying has of necessity been on tricycles because I'm doing the IMCR. However, if I go back to 'conventional undercarriage' then I shall insist on doing 'wheelers' before I regard myself as properly 'checked out'.

While I think of it, do see that Mrs. seaplane is also taught both approach methods, 'one wing down' and 'crabbing in'. I suspect there may be a tendency to teach only the 'one wing down' method as almost all club taildraggers are high wing types. At some future time, she may wish to fly a low wing monoplane or a biplane, so she needs to be able to 'crab' in also.

Please wish Mrs. seaplane the very best of luck for me.

Broomstick.

[Readability5]

How about the Tiger Club at EGKH?

[irish seaplane]

Thanks for the rec's,
Tried a quiet prominent pilot magazine advertiser on tailwheel PPL's there on the phone. Said they bring you up to solo on tailwheel, the do all the nav work on a Cessna and give you a choice of what you want to do the test in. Gas, I find this tailwheel "conversion" mentality quite amusing. Its not just as simple as going out and doing 5/8 hrs and saying you're reborn. Maybe after 500hrs you're starting to get closer to seeing all the possible scenario's your tailwheel skill could be tested. Certainly think she'll need a straight run of 45hs without nosewheel intervention, and possibly more, to get the confidence needed. A local-ish school here looking at a PA-18. Will know today, and they can do a course for her if they buy. Hate to travel 300nm and camp for 3 weeks only to get a half baked result.

Irish

[L18C]

I did my PPL training on Super Cubs at Clacton to post-solo level. I would recommend the school: they were friendly and used (in 2004) a newly-refurbished Super Cub. The runway is only 600m so it's good preparation if you want to go on to fly out of farm strips.

[Rugbyears]

Sorry, you sated that your good lady will be flying your Cub afterwards? In that instance, surly if you have access to this particular aircraft it would be a financial advantage to simply utilise that aircraft and pay the fee of a private instructor, minus aircraft rental..? Certainly more significantly, your wife’s learning will be a lot less impeded as she is already familiar with the aircraft..!


….Just a thought..!!
:ok:

[irish seaplane]

Love to have done her ab inito training on the Cub, but alas its on floats and PPL training has to take place from a licenced aerodrome (i.e. not the lake in front of the house) - otherwise I'd have done it that way. Going to see now if a SC comes available slightly closer to us, as I suspect one might. Other than that it'll be a trek to england to whoever is the straightest talking school we find with an available taildragger. I remember having 6 flying schools and 24 flying instructors for my PPL, and damned if I'm going to be party to the silly buggers that I had to put up with. :ugh: Me and BS = Petrol and Matches



Irish

[stickandrudderman]

Eva at The Pilot Centre at Denham does TW training.
I did mine with her and she certainly taught me wheelers as well as three pointers and various cross wind techniques.
Thoroughly recommended!:ok:

[Say again s l o w l y]

Leading edge flight training at Cumbernauld have a brand spanking Super Decathlon available.

A lovely thing and aerobatic too.

[EGBKFLYER]

Broomstick - I heartily agree with your views on taildragger training. I teach in Cubs and certainly consider my job unfinished if I haven't taught all methods of approach and landing - to the stage that the student can 'mix and match' for any conditions. The three other instructors at the school do the same - only wish everyone else did...

Irish - don't intend to advertise the school here (it is mentioned in this thread) but if you're still looking, PM me.

[J.A.F.O.]

the Cub, but alas its on floats and PPL training has to take place from a licenced aerodrome (i.e. not the lake in front of the house)

I'm normally one for the ladies but my head could be turned, Cub on floats on a lake outside the house, I'll marry you.

[Rugbyears]

Cub on floats on a lake outside the house, I'll marry you
I too will marry you!!:O

[irish seaplane]

Think she falls under the "common law" definition of wife at this stage rather than the fully signed up type. No point in me being "Hangared" at 28 years of age.... Higher offers from "night flying" females need to be 8's or better these days! See how she gets on with Derek D in Bournemouth in two weeks time. No good being able to land on one float if she cant do the paperwork.

Multiple guess indeed.

Irish

[Snakecharmer]

The Tiger Club has to be the best... get to fly a variety of aeroplanes during training from the airfield which I reckon has the best atmosphere... great crowd too and find yourself surrounded by lots of real experience.

[mary meagher]

Dear Irish, here is a message for your lady!

Yes, by all means learn this side of the ocean the basic joy of the PA18; but then insist your man book you in to Jack Brown's Seaplane base in Florida, not far from Orlando. I did my rating there, in J3's on floats, and it makes a wonderful holiday altogether. Just watch out for alligators. . . . they have the right of way!