Is £140 an hour too much?

[CaptainTC]

Hey, i am switching Flying Schools and the new school i will be going to charge £140 an hour in a PA-38 Tomahawk. I was just wondering if that was too much? I wont name the School i wll be going to.:)

[will fly for food 06]

It depends what is included and what kind of school. Does that included landing fees?

[CaptainTC]

Well thats everything, instructor hire ground briefings etc, and the landing fee which is £16.50 weekday and £20.50 at weekends.

[Legalapproach]

Possibly not if it includes landing fees and instruction in today's climate. Landing fees in the UK are frankly criminal. I flew into Luxembourg last week - large international airport - huge runway and the landing and parking fee for a PA32 for the day was Landing 6.1 euro and parking 2.50. That's about £8 in today's money but a few months ago would have been just over a fiver.

[CaptainTC]

Ahh i see, i agree things are too over priced in the UK. OK thanks i just wanted to get a second opinion.:ok:

[modelman]

The landing fee seems a bit steep-is that per landing/approach because that ain't half going to rack up your bills when you start bashing out circuits:(?
MM

[PhilDawson]

I pay £155 per hour for dual training on a Cessna 152, includes flight briefing. The 1 hour is flight time, not booked slot time. So I may be on the lesson for 2 hours but am only charged from chocks off to chocks on.

Landing is £12 per full stop, but only £3 for a touch and go.

[Established Localiser]

I must be out of touch !! seems a lot for a Tomahawk & C152 , I'm sure I only paid £145 an hour dual in a PA28-161 whilst renewing my IMC in December.

EL

[chrisbl]

That seems fair to be honest.

A school near me in the South East charges £145 /hr brakes off to brakes on for a 152 / Pa38 and £10 per detail for landings whether it is one landing or 12 landings.

[baldwyn]

I'm paying £120 for a 152 at my place!

[RTN11]

Sounds fairly reasonable.

My school charges £135/hr dual or £95/hr solo for a PA-38 which includes unlimited landings at the home base.

It's a fairly good deal as after completing 50 hours on the aircraft, I can claim back £20 an hour so the solo rate works out at £75/hr wet.

Still probably cheaper to buy a share.

[Rugbyears]

If I recall this months edition of Pilot Magazine includes a brochure 'Essential Guide - Where to Fly in the UK and Abroad'. It lists all the flying schools type of aircrafts held as well as the price they charge for each type! A brilliant tool for hour building or a PPL. You will be amazed just how much the price varies amongst schools, PA28 ranges from £111h Duel to £220h Duel - CRIMINAL! Also, I was amazed just how many clubs actually exist where I am based – I never realised that I had such options when I completed the PPL!:ugh:

[mike172]

£155 an hour for a crappy Cessna 152? That's crazy. Where I learnt, you can get a Cessna 172SP G1000 dual for just a few quid more. That was brakes off, to brakes on and included all landing fees.
I now pay £143 solo and can take my pick of five new 172's.

[flybymike]

It rather depends on the location. Training at an international airport is going to be considerably more expensive than Scruggs field.

[PhilDawson]

There was a cheaper school operating out of the same aerodrome. However, what you must remember is that it's not just a comparison of prices of the aircraft, but the quality of the tuition.

It may be worth paying an extra £20 per hour if you get on with your instructor and can learn better.

[Peter Fanelli]

Is £140 an hour too much?



Depends entirely on what she'll do for you. :E

[Fark'n'ell]

Here in NZ you can get a c150/2 for about 70 pounds per hour. For circuits most airfeilds only charge one landing fee no matter how many circuits you do.May be cheaper to do your PPL somewhere other than the UK.

[Lister Noble]

I reckon it's spot on if it includes landings and briefings.
I paid around £135-140 for a PA28-160 in 2005-06 when learning,and it included all flight briefings before and after.
I paid £350 /year to join the club which included insurance and all landings etc.
Ground school was £10 per hour,and I had an hour per subject.
The tuition was excellent ,great club and I think I had good value.
It's not all about the bottom line,the quality of aircraft,instructors and school is more important.
Lister

[Genghis the Engineer]

Just in passing, I've just come back from a business trip to San Diego. Whilst there, I had an afternoon free and spotted the "San Diego gliderport" - with hang-gliders and paragliders all over the place.

So I went and asked about a dual hang-glider flight, which I thought would be great fun. Until the I saw the price - US$175 for 20 minutes.

So, I didn't get a go in a hang-glider!



Oh yes, the real question - £140/hr for a PA38 seems about right for dual instruction in the UK at the moment, but it does vary from place to place. See what else is on offer locally for comparison.

G

[madgav]

Interesting thread. I'm currently paying £145/hr for C172 dual (conventional or G1000). Solo pre-PPL is same rate. No landing fees at home airfield. Ground briefings & associated tuition no extra cost. Club membership fee £86/yr.

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi Guys,

In my experience, flying rates are always considerably higher in the London area and for about 50 miles around London. The same is true for hangarage.

They are always higher at a licensed aerodrome, not least because the aerodrome owners have to pay extortionate fees to what I consider to be a rapacious CAA. Training at an airport serving commercial air transport costs even more. Needless to say, by law all PPL training has to take place from a licensed aerodrome or airport.

Add to this the cost of American made spares imported into the UK for our increasingly ageing fleet of spam cans.

In general, rates are slightly higher nearer the Western seaboard rather than the East because weather there is poorer so aircraft utilisation is lower. Actually, perhaps the biggest difference between the UK and other countries is that because of our weather we always have lower aircraft utilisation then Florida etc anyway.

Put it all together and you have high flying rates. If you want to avoid them you HAVE TO go abroard.

Broomstick.

[Keith_P]

As has been mentioned, the latest 'Pilot' has their annual guide to schools with facilities and rates etc. which allows you to compare prices. While this allows you to compare the cost of flying time etc, one thing it does not help with is quality of either the flying training, the ground school tuition or the quality or maintenance of the aircraft. I would happily pay a higher price for quality tuition and aircraft. If you pay a lower rate and discover there are regularly lessons cancelled because of poor aircraft then it isn't any advantage. Worse still, you go for a school because they are cheap and discover that instead of a practice fanstop you get the real thing. Look at all the angles before making a decision.

I think the school I transferred to was probably in the middle of the price range but I never had any doubts over the quality of the instructors or the aircraft and, 8 years on, still rent aircraft from them and use their instructors for review flights etc.

Good luck with the flying :)

[invictaair]

£140 - £150 in the south east for 1 hour C152 is the going rate

I pay £142 per hour and the instructors spot on for my learning style.

[Mickey Kaye]

Full Sutton

C150 Hire 78 Quid
PA-28 Hire 85 Quid

Instructor 25 or 20 quid an hour on top.

All career instructors. One of which also teachers CPL elsewhere.

Must be the cheapest around.

[OneIn60rule]

118£ for dual on a C-152

Hire I believe t'was around a 100£ with the landing fee included.

For a Pa-28-Warrior-- 145£ dual
Hire would be 120£


1/60

[White Otter]

OneInSixty - notice your location is Derby ATM; you wouldn't be talking about the airfield of the same name would you?

[jollyrog]

£135/136 at Headcorn. Landings included.

[mary meagher]

Okay, this is very old experience, but possibly still valid. Good idea to visit any possible new flying school. Check out the quality of maintenance. What you are looking for is sound aircraft, not fancy premises. ( Wellesbourne seems to have some good operations, for example.)
Are the instructors just building time, or do they like what they are doing? Instructors do burn out, and start hating their students after a time. And yet some of the old boys are some of the best. For sure, you can't earn a living being a flying instructor.

Don't sign up for a whole package in advance until you have flown there a few times. Especially if you plan training in the US.

[Hyph]

CaptainTC,

I don't imagine there are too many places in the UK with those same landing charges... and therefore I suspect I know which school you're considering.

Personally speaking I think it most important that you get on with your instructor. Visit the school, get them to show you around, take a trial lesson. If you still like it, keep going back.

Feel free to PM me.

[OneIn60rule]

No, not Derby.

1/60

[rich_g85]

I'm paying £165 an hour, dual PA-28. Includes landing fee, fuel & 1 hour's ground instruction.

[StOrMsCaTcHeR]

i've recently got my PPL few weeks ago. i got trained on pa28 and cesna 172, (whichever was available). i paid £150 per hour. that included everything. landing fees, dual instruction, pre ppl solos, night rating hrz. they charged me from brakes off to brakes on. also included ground briefing and full concentration of the instructor.

i got trained at EGHH.

[Readability5]

I'm in a syndicate of 7 operating a PA28 Warrior 2. With the fixed and variable costs we charge ourselves, including fuel, engine fund outside parking and home field landing fees, our price works out at £160 per hour if you fly 12 hours a year, falling to £120 per hour if you fly 24 hours.

We're in our 4th year without a cash call and have added some useful bits ranging from our own lifejackets to an engine management system.

R5