Highland Flying School in Administration?

[ewsd02]

I heard on the grape vine that the highland flying school has gone into administration with a note on the front door last night?

Anyone with any further infomation?

[ryanayre]

Mate of mine turned up for flight at 10:30 this morning and found the place shut with a note saying that Highland Flying School had ceased trading as of 17:00 last night

[ewsd02]

So it is true then, I wonder what happened? I hope none of the students paid upfront.

[ATIS31]

Its a shame really as far as I Know there is no flying school north of Dundee now:eek:
Spoke to Air Traffic controller today who said Flying Suspended to Monday what ever that means :confused:

[ewsd02]

Am sorry to hear that has happened. How could someone hope to spend £18k at a PPL school? Were they doing CPL there also? Doesn't matter now I know, and I hope the guy can get some of his money back.

Not true about no more clubs north of Dundee, there is still the Moray Flying Club at RAF Kinloss, and probably still PPL training part time at Wick.

[Mike744]

You can still get flying training at Inverness - at the Highland Aero Club (n.b. HAC has no connection with the Highland Flying School)

[studentbiggles]

I would recommend the Moray Flying Club. I know the instructor there, Euan Downie. An excellent instructor. Hope you guys who were flying at HFC can salvage something from it.:ok:

[Golf--Lima--Papa]

Jesus.. I can't believe this.

My mate has paid £1000 up front with HFS, very sad indeed.

[Stratus Fractus]

I think this is very sad news. HFS employed several instructors and has over the years sent many more on to Eastern Airways, Flybe, Highland Airways etc.
It was an excellent facility, you could just rock up, have a chat and jump in a Tomahawk for £78? / hr. I very rarely booked ahead. Hardly any problems with availability and plenty of free hours shuttling them to Dundee for maintenance.
Many people can't afford a share or can't get a space in the hangar. I am not sure what a lot of people are going to do with their hard earned licenses now. Highland Aero Clubs internet booked Tomahawk sounds like it will be a right pain in the a_se. HFS had 4 tomahawks, 1 C172, 2 PA28. They were all well utilised. How is one PA38 going to be able to keep everyone flying? As I understand it, if you want to go to Highland Aero Club for a pee before takeoff you have to book someone to come and open it up for you. It seems completely deserted since they made HFS leave.
If you lost money from paying up front I have NO sympathy. HOW MANY threads have said DO NOT PAY UP FRONT !
I personally am sorry to see this happen to the Brooks'. They kept me flying for 7 years. Good luck P + M.

[no bearde woman]

:{they are not in administration
they have ceased trading and ran off with a lot of clients cash
some very good people have been stung

they and i quote " retiring to Newcastle":{

you were told almost six months ago

but alas the starry eyed amongst us have been ripped well off

i believe that the highland aero club are about to announce some serious training, as a result.

so watch out, and should you have been ripped off they are not in administration and therefore you may have recourse to the law.

its sad, but its a life experience for some good honest people

may you all have a good tailwind behind you

[Golf--Lima--Papa]

I was training for my PPL with HFS where I logged around 15 hours until February, I then changed schools due to the distance I was travelling and not having any continuity with my training, it was 2 steps forward then 3 steps back. The reason I changed had nothing to do with the school itself. I simply wanted to fly at least 1 hour per week. I thought everything was fine and dandy with the school especially after moving into the new office.

Looks like I got out in the nick of time.

I did warn my friend not to pay up front time and time again, however he never listened, I really can't see him getting his money back now, I do wonder when will people realise NEVER pay up front.

[no bearde woman]

hfs are not in administration
they have only ceased trading
so if you have money in there call the police on 01463 715555
after all they are trying to make off to Newcastle with your money but hurray

what more can one do

[ewsd02]

Playing devils advocate, I've read over them a couple of times and I don't see what's wrong with no bearde womans posts', as long as he/she is right of course. So far no one has disagreed with the details, only the tone and loosing money always stirs emotions.

Anyone know what caused the issues at Highland?

[GaryS]

Unfortunately I booked the night qualification and a ten hour block on the PA38.

Only completed 55 minutes of the night qualification due to weather.

You need to pay for a 10 hour block for the £85 rate and I have only used one hour and a bit.

I understand why people recommend pay-as-you-go unfortunately the discounts are too tempting for myself.

If this post turns out to be true, I will NEVER pay upfront ever again even if it costs more in the long run.

[no bearde woman]

i wished i could have told you more

i hope you get there, use the phone number above and make an official complaint .
after all its your money they are off with
if you paid by credit card or visa debit you can claim it back
Hope you get some redress

[GaryS]

WILCO!

I know another guy who has completed most of his exams and had around 5 hours on account, unfortunately he has not heard the news yet.

I am kicking myself just now :}

I was silly enough to pay using debit (on my 3rd payment attempt), however initally my (2) credit cards were declined both with a healthy balance of £0 :mad:

[sgt_bilko]

I am aware that this is a different situation, however if all the other options listed fail it is absolutely worth pursuing your bank to get the money, regardless of whether it is a debit card or not.

I paid for my flyzoom flights last year with a Visa debit card and managed to get my money back after 2 weeks of the whole show going belly up. It appeared to be some rule/law about protection for individual transactions on a Visa debit of over £100 or £150. Maestro/Switch cards did not offer this protection unfortunately.

I'm sorry to hear about your situation, I hope this is of some assistance to you.

[preduk]

I'm stunned, I had a couple of grand sitting in the bank so I could get a load of flying under my belt this summer and now they have ceased trading.

[cavoktoday]

Look @ highlandaeroclub.co.uk I think they have a pa38 for hire and instruction. The whole situation has been going from bad to worse since Oct 2008. Everyone knows a rumour but seem to keep it to themselvs. If people kept their mouths shut and their ears open and worked together instead of like a tug of war comp things might have been different. It seems greed got the better.The law has to be changed to protect the customer so a deposit is protected how would watchdog survive if customers did not loose their deposits on sofas carpets furniture etc now its HFS.

I have heard the phrase buy cheap buy dear. How many others will find out the hard way in futute?

[mad_jock]

Factors

1. Rent on the new building will be 10-20 times more than it was in HAC.

2. The split from HAC was before xmas.

3. The local newspapers had a field day with the inspections.

Combine 2 and 3 and the trial flight bonanza of xmas gets royally screwed. Even in the old days you could pull in 30-50K in the space of 6 weeks which probably only 50% would actually take the trial flight. And the majority would take it towards the end of the year when they were just running out. But that would be covered by the cash coming in for the current xmas. So there will have been 10-20k worth of hours flown off with little cash in.

There are a raft of other reasons which it wouldn't be wise to air in public. Some of the things that have been reported to the authorities are quite serious if they are found to be true.

Personally I have mixed feelings over this, 6 months ago I wouldn't have been really to bothered. But looking back to 600 hours in ZA and LP, and 350 in YR and some of the students I taught there does bring back many fond memory's.
YR was the most difficult aircraft to land I have flown in my career.

The school gave many a pilot their first start both the instructors and the students. I can't think of any airport in the UK which is better placed for PPL instruction. Training area just out of the circuit, local micro climate which let you train when the rest of the UK was clamped. Local bombing range to go and play in. Scenery to die for. Trial flights down the great glen followed by a run down the Black isle, if you were lucky you could watch the RAF in the bombing circuit at Tain.

Those that have lost money and their jobs I have every sympathy with.

There is a very strong market for flying in the inverness area I am sure someone will step in to reap the rewards.

[TurningFinals]

I'm kicking myself now! :ugh:

I bought the £500 PPL starter kit in August last year.

Since then I've been ill and theres been a whole load of reasons why I havn't been able to get flying and I still have 3 hours left to take.

I've only got 3 hours on my PPL to date so those extra 3 hours that i was still hoping to claim is a substantial amount!

I know there are people much worse off than myself, and i feel a great deal of sympathy for them. Flying is an expensive business, especially with the way the economy is just now.

[Mike744]

Debt-hit flying school grounded - Press & Journal (http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1134360)

[Soaring Mad]

I recently qualified with my PPL last month. Looking forward to getting some flying hours under my belt before choosing career pathway. Gutted to find out this afternoon of HFS. Always thought something dodgy but people seemed freindly enough. Can any one tell me where i may be able to hire aircraft to continue flying?

[Deeday]

Always thought something dodgy Soaring Mad, what seemed dodgy to you? if you can please share it with us.

I'm about to get my PPL and was planning to sign up for their 4-hour "advanced course", or whatever was called (short field ops, spins etc.), this summer. I'm gutted that the school is no more, since all reviews seemed very positive. Were there signs that something bad was going on?

Cheers.

Deeday

[madflyer26]

Their name should change from BROOKS to CROOKS.

I guess all the excuses I was fed to get my money back was a crock of ****. Just for the record I had invested 1k for ten hours on the PA28.

I subsequently bough my own aircraft and wanted my money back as I was unlikely to use the hours. I have been trying to get my money back since mid last year and had even been told by Magpie that the cheque was in the post, it never turned up. When I insisted on talking to Maggie myself, I was told she was ill and in hospital.

I have no sympathy for them as they have clearly shown a lack of transparency as they head back down south with their former loyal customers cash.

Sleep easy Maggie and Peter!!

[Soaring Mad]

After being told last October that all exams and solo hours complete i was waiting for final skills test. Kept getting put off and when i forced the issue i was told that i still had an exam to sit and hours to make up!! eventually after passing skills test i was hit for a bill for excess hours. Not a lot off money, but money i shouldnt have had to pay if there records were checked regularly

[gc2750]

I started my PPL with them last July and had the starter pack and a couple of lessons on top. They would always fit you in for a lesson but there was a different instructor each time, some better than others, and next to nothing in the way of pre-flight briefing.

I paid them 2 grand thinking I would return last Sept (but cancelled after circumstances meant I had to remain in the south due to a serious illness in the family) but after much persuasion managed to get it out of them.

Sad news and best wishes to those who have lost money or their livelihoods.

[Inshallah]

I am an instructor at the Moray Flying Club at Kinloss. We have some spare capacity just now and could handle a few more flyers. If you find yourself mid way through a PPL, and want to finish in the local area, we could probably help you out.

For what its worth, I never met the owner of HFS, but had only heard good things about him. I hope that once the dust settles, things will be fine at Inverness. See you in the LTA.

[Airbus319]

Currently owed £1780 for an IMC course (Minus 1hr) I was due to start a week on Monday, totally gutted at the entire shambolic situation.

I asked for a refund once the jungle drums were in full motion but needless to say that was never going to happen, excuses like we lost the refund card and the like being battered about.

This whole situation has been brewing for months now it's not happened overnight for sure and when I paid my money back in February Maggie took it from me knowing fine well that the place was going to the dogs.

Can I just categorically say to Maggie and Pete who I know will read this -

I am totally disgusted with the way that people have been treated, there are lots of customers out there who just wanted to pay some very hard earned money to fly and you have royally shafted them.
I find myself so dissillusioned that I dont even know if I want to aim for a commercial license now, my hopes and dreams shattered and my money missing presumed gone or should that say stolen I dont know.
I had a great loyalty to the organisation, I wanted to help out where I could, offering what skills I have to better the establishment whilst seeking no reward and I guess it was too much to expect at least a tiny bit of loyalty in return, at least the decency to return my money so I could go elsewhere and do the training i have made so many sacrifices to pay for.

Peter and Maggie you both need to realise you are messing with peoples lives here, this is bigger than just your own situation, I urge you to not bury your heads in the sand or relocate to England never to be seen again but instead stand up and be held accountable and help sort out your customers issues, in effect Please do the right thing.

David, Glasgow.

[TurningFinals]

Can any one tell me where i may be able to hire aircraft to continue flying?

Moray Flying Club in Kinloss have a few Cessnas that they hire.

Get in contact with them here. (http://www.morayflyingclub.org.uk/)

[Capt_Stewart]

-HAC(Highland Aeroclub) have a pa38 Tomahawk that can be hired and there is a limited amount of instruction available.

It appears to be early days but there is a market for PPL training and flying at Inverness as mad Jock says, so things will probably improve in the next few weeks.

The website booking does work although is fiddly to begin with.

Leading Edge Flying Club and Flight Training (http://www.flyleadingedge.co.uk/)

You do need to be a HAC member
You only pay on the day for the flying you do.

The instructor situation will improve as some of those made unemployed at the fllying school may move over to the Aeroclub.

Highland Aero Club (http://www.highlandaeroclub.co.uk/)

There is also flying at kinloss a bit cheaper but more fiddly to get airside, I guess it depends where you are based.

Ring Wick if in the far north I am not sure of the current situation.


The flying school also tried to get lots of my money in January but luckly I read prune didn't pay up front.

NEVER PAY UP FRONT

[Mungo Man]

G-YR was the most difficult aircraft to land I have flown in my career.

Ha ha! I always thought it was a dog to land as well! I instructed there in a past life and also flew hundreds of hours on LP and ZA, full of fond memories... early morning trial flights skimming the tops of the Cairngorms and being able to see the entire Highlands... magic.

Very sad to hear the old place has stopped. It sounds to me like there was some bitter personal differences getting in the way between the Aeroclub and the school which is a great shame.

As for the current opportunities to fly, well none will be the same. HFS was a place I used to re-visit occasionally when I was in the area and there was always a friendly face, a cup of tea and spare plane for me to go and have some fun in for 20 mins.

As for the people who have lost money, well life sucks sometimes. A friend of mine lost over £20k when a Bournmouth based FTO went down a few years ago. It set him back years in getting his first commercial job. These things will happen and you make you choice whether to pay up front or not. It there was no risk everyone would pay up front. For some the risk may be worth the saving. Personall when looking for a place to spend my £20,000 on a CPL, IR and FI rating I refused to consider FTOs that required any upfront money. I remember writing a cheque for £10,800 the day I passed my IR. Up to that point I hadn't paid a penny.

[mad_jock]

Those thinking of still training up in inverness I wouldn't write it off just yet.

James the new CFI is a good lad and good instructor and by some of the texts flying around with some of the ex highland school instructors the pool of instructors may be quite sizeable. And the experience base will be quite impressive. And there is at least one ex-examiner is going to get his ticket back.

There were quite a few of us who would have continued instructing in our spare time if it hadn't been for the politics with maggie. I wouldn't be surprised if various people come out of the woodwork again who had been made to avoid the place. I am sure the fat controller could be bribed into running his ground school again.

And on a personal note I don't think Pete planned any of this he is just not that sort of person. He got caught out with the situation (which has been brewing for years) that developed before xmas and let emotion over ride business sense. To be honest I would imagine most schools are only in business month to month in a state of nearly going into administration it could have happen to the majority of schools in the country if the trial flight market dried up.

And as a note

EGPE 220920Z 26023KT 9999 FEW026 BKN038 10/05 Q1022

I bet its cracking flying up there today wouldn't be surprised if you could see Wick from the training area.

[mad_jock]

I have had a few contacts with people about this aircraft and it being a bitch to land.

My method which seemed to work every time.

1. fly the approach at the correct speed as usual.

2. Normal round out

3. Power off and start flaring now don't let it touch down until you feel the back of the aircraft drop. You will need to put quite a bit of back pressure on it to stop her landing then let her sit down on the runway. This is occurs after the ASI has started reading zero. You will be at very nearly taxi speed when you land.

If you don't wait for the drop in the tail,the bounce used to be very impressive with some students trying put it on the deck at book speeds managing to get 30-40ft.

I don't know what was up with it but it used to cruise at 5-10knts faster than any other C172 I had flown. And apart from the landing she was sweet to fly never did manage to stall her.

I suspect mungo that in 6 months time if you walk in the door you won't see much difference. I won't be involved but I have a sneaky suspicion after chatting to one of the characters a couple of weeks back it might be a bit of a phoenix resurrection for training at INV. With more of a club with training. Than a school who has to share a building with a club.

[inv flyer]

try the aero club 1st before trying kinloss as it might not be the best option see below

http://www.pprune.org/4302924-post26.html

Ah, but when the rest of jockland is in sunshine, the moray coast is getting piddled on. Like today

Seriously though, Inverness and Kinloss do statistically have the best flying weather in the UK over a year. Nairn, funnily enough, is the sunniest place in whole of the UK.
The school at Inverness has a good reputation, and seems to be very busy at the moment. Which, in my humble opinion, shows that they must be doing something right. Suitably motivated students have been known to get their PPL in three weeks (in mid january). Only down side is that they don't provide commercial training.
There are mixed opinions about MFC, personally I found it a negative place. All the posters and rulebook are preceded by Don't do this and Don't do that. They only have one full time instructor, the CFI, who is a bit draconion to say the least. There are two ways of doing things apparently, his way or the wrong way. Availability of instructor maybe an issue. Also getting on to the base in a major ballache.

[s.daedalus]

I'm extremely saddened to see the school close doors and am certain that there are others besides myself who wish to extend a warm thank you to both Pete and Maggie for their efforts over the years. We have lost an excellent school, one which has aided many a student on their way to achieving their dream - be it flying commercially or just an occasional jolly in the sky. Their steady work, advice and sound assistance to hundreds of pilot's and enthusiasts over the years is something I hope not to see forgotten by those understandably considering the hit to their 'back pocket'.

If I may, I'd like to clarify the current situation at the HFS:

What's happened?
The decision to 'shut up shop' is not one the school have seemingly taken lightly. Facing ill health and rising political tension the club closed doors on Thursday March 19th. The school diligently explored all possible avenues, including the sale of the business to other established training organisations, prior to making a decision that no-one wanted to see.

What's happening now?
The club is no longer operating. An accountant (administrator) will be on-site from Monday March 22nd in order to reconcile the school's accounts. All creditors (those who have hours or money owed for goods or services not received) will be notified in writing in due course.

How likely am I to get my money back?
Extremely. As mentioned in previous posts, if you have money on account and the transaction was made by Credit card you will be able to raise a dispute directly with the credit provider. The process is painless and surprisingly free of 'red-tape' and I am told that, in most cases, the matter is resolved within 28 days.

If you didn't pay by Credit card it is noteworthy to mention that the school are in excellent shape to repay this value in full. The club own 6 aircraft out-right and there is no question of any finance agreement outstanding on any of their fleet.

In short...
Aircraft and other remaining assets of value are will be sold, the proceeds transferred to a client account from which the Administrator can the distribute to creditors. The school would seemingly be able repay all outstanding monies even if only 1/3 of their aircraft were sold.

And finally...
My very best to all who have had the pleasure of crossing paths with the HFS, it's staff and customers, past and present.

Kind regards,
S.Daedalus

[inv flyer]

the aero club will be as good if not better than highland in its hay day. as for kinloss/moray you could be jumping from the firepan into the fire.

http://www.pprune.org/4302924-post26.html

Ah, but when the rest of jockland is in sunshine, the moray coast is getting piddled on. Like today

Seriously though, Inverness and Kinloss do statistically have the best flying weather in the UK over a year. Nairn, funnily enough, is the sunniest place in whole of the UK.
The school at Inverness has a good reputation, and seems to be very busy at the moment. Which, in my humble opinion, shows that they must be doing something right. Suitably motivated students have been known to get their PPL in three weeks (in mid january). Only down side is that they don't provide commercial training.
There are mixed opinions about MFC, personally I found it a negative place. All the posters and rulebook are preceded by Don't do this and Don't do that. They only have one full time instructor, the CFI, who is a bit draconion to say the least. There are two ways of doing things apparently, his way or the wrong way. Availability of instructor maybe an issue. Also getting on to the base in a major ballache.[/COLOR]

[mad_jock]

And the ****e stirring starts again.

For gawds sake now HFS has gone is it not time to put all the childish snipping to bed. Yes everyone knows Mick is a cantankerous old bugga and his wife is lovely and how does that affect the pilots wanting to learn to fly in Inverness? It didn't before so I can't see how it can suddenly start.

Hopefully the club is now intending doing club training for the benefit of its members. What does it matter if some young wannabie travels up from England and spends 4 weeks at Moray instead of hogging a machine and instructor then disappearing at INV?. It gives you 60 quid I will admit but it doesn't add anything to the aero club.

I hope everyone at the club will just forget all the old battles and enjoy building something which is fun. For the kids learning to fly through to the old farts who's highlight of the week is going for a waltz around the black isle after soup and a sandwich on sunday.

And BTW I was that instructor who got the student through in three weeks and I seem to remember a horrible trip down to Dundee to get the 50 hour done or Bill and the other Sunday fliers wouldn't have had an aircraft to fly. Intensive courses create logistical problems and admin problems all of there own. If Moray want that business you would be well advised to point any enquiries in their direction.

[inv flyer]

correct jock,

its early days and the aero club will welcome all who want to join and train there. no need to go elsewhere and have the hassles of getting on a mod base.

[mad_jock]

I am sure it will and as I have been told I can actually enter the building again I will be joining next month as an ordinary member.

So if anyone in the know can tell me how I can organise a SEP test through the club I would be more than grateful.

And thanks, s.daedalus I had a sneaky feeling that all the planes were owned and Pete had everything covered but didn't want to get anyone's hopes up. And if your reading this Pete look after yourself yer old sod. The worst thing about me leaving the school was loosing someone who had been a good mate.

[Inshallah]

Inv Flyer,

There are 2 full time instructors at Moray, and many part time available. As for the rest, well that person is entitled to their opinion and prune is full of various opinions. Please consider revising that post with the link and paste, because its a bit unnecessary under the circumstances and I'm sure I could find someone in the past saying something negative on prune about your place if I was that way inclined.

I hope things go well for HAC on the training side, never know, I might be after a job there sometime in the future. I'm sure you will pick up many members from HFS, which I am sorry to see go. Will drop by for a chat next time I'm across refueling. Regards.

[arr]

I had 4 hours on account along with 4 exams already passed with a view to completing the final 3 in the next fortnight and completing the ppl in the next 3-5 weeks. The money, if previous posts are to go by, will see its way back to me depending on if a letter is issued from the administrators. Those 4 exams though...will i get proof of them being sat or will i need to re-do the lot when i decide where im going to go to finish ppl?:ugh:

[no bearde woman]

there will be no one in the building this morning as hial have stuck a big padlock on the door.

the school don't own six aircraft, 2 are owned separately by one of the directors who leases it to the school.

one is stuck down at tayside requireing an annual since feb.

and has anyone seen the pa28 g-biit recently call tayside aviation for the real story .

i do hope you get your money back

i know already that people have been unable to get there money back directly

good luck

[no bearde woman]

as the old hfs building has been seized by the airport

it would appear that your student records are still there

you should be able to get your hands on them

highland aero club are on the phone as i write negotiating this facility with the airport.
hope this helps
i will get a phone number if anyone wishes to contact and get there records back.

[Airbus319]

I agree with th first paragraph 99%

What's happened?
The school gave no indication it was in financial trouble. It took monies from students and ppl's knowing that. While taking also monies for xmas flying vouchers (some of which were to give young children their first taste of flying). What has happened to this money..... I bet the records for such sales unless paid by credit card are "lost".

I think this is a discraceful way to conduct business.

I have also heard that staff have been paid with bouncing cheques or remain unpaid.... again I ask what has happened to the money raised by the sale of gift vouchers at xmas.

It is a criminal offence to write cheques knowing that there are no funds to cover them. I hope it is also a criminal offence to solicit voucher and credit sales knowing they will not be honoured. I would urge all creditors to contact the police and take their advice in addition to any other action they may be considering.

I would suggest (but hope this is not the case) that there is no likelyhood of any creditor getting their full money back unless it is protected by a credit card agreement or similar.

The school are not in excellent shape at all and this is why trading has stopped. This is why nobody including myself wants to buy it.
In my opion the schools most valuable aircraft, at best would fetch £14,000.00 in a already depressed market. Please note that it remains at the maintainence agent with an estimated price tag for work carried out on it of £7,000.00. The sale would release £7,000.00 not enough even to repay 1 student who has foolishly paid in advance (not by credit card) for 100hrs flying. Of the eight students I know, they are owed combined £30,000.00, two of which have not paid by credit card.

I wonder which 1/3 of aircraft owned would cover this. "IT" is the one I describe above.

I think the person to whom i am replying has at least attended the Maggie and Peter school of business.

I do however have a lot of sympathy for them. I think i am not alone in suggesting that if they had indicated troubles on the horizon that a lot of the students of the school both past and present would have "rallied round". Perhaps even a share issue in the Ltd company.... after all people have shares in football teams and only a couple of these make profit.

I used to consider myself a personal friend of Maggie and Pete and I write this hoping I still am.

Derek Inverness and David Glasgow

[mad_jock]

Check with the CAA before you start handing out training records they have to be kept for 5 years after the student has finished training.

Normally they either get sent to the CAA or a local PPL examiner takes charge of them and forwards them on to the next training organisation.

You can give out photo copies but don't give out the originals until you have spoken to Gatwick.

[no bearde woman]

i just hope all students can get them back.

its bad enough to be ripped off,but having to pay to do it all again is over the top!!!

[Boabity]

HAC don't have my permission to have my student records. If they even touch them I'll be suing both HAC and HIAL under the data protection act. The only people with the right to touch the student records are the CAA and the student themselves. I suggest No Bearde Woman and his cronies stay well clear.

All that has been proven in this situation is that we have had confirmed that an aero club can utterly ruin the flying school that's associated with them.

We've seen this all before.

My suggestion to any other training provider is to stay well clear of HAC as they will only cause you pain while the current commitee is in charge. A more horrid self important bunch of -ancient- attention seekers you could not meet. This I'm told reliably that this was not always the case and that the club was interested in promoting flying training. Now it's just a bunch of mainly old folks that want to have a place to sit, drink tea and talk about how they can tell the professionals how to do it. You have been warned.

For those of you that are not members of HAC or have not renewed your membership, hopefully another training provider will come and take up where HFS left off. Nothing is set in stone, it's highly possible that some or all money will be returned, have faith. If you do lose money then that has to be the saddest thing of all, there's nothing worse than seeing your hard earned money disappear, you have my and the not so vocal majorities thoughts.

For those of you that have airside passes with Highland Flying School on the top, your passes have been revoked at the request of the HAC commitee and you will have to pay the fee again. Happily if you hold a current CAA/JAR/EASA licence then you do not have to join HAC to get a new sponsor, contact the airport and they will arrange for you to re-register as an independent pilot. Why they had to revoke the existing passes, I do not know.

If you have existing student records, they will be retrievable from inside the HFS building you will need to contact HIAL to recover these, I urge you to avoid HAC as they will only give you further grief than you already have, unless the current commitee move aside that is and let reasonable people do the job of organising social activities.

Be patient, something good will come of this (so long as HAC can keep clear and actually let the professionals do what's needed.)

One final thing, for those HAC people that feel that the efforts of the HAC commitee have been justified by HFS going out of business, perhaps you'll spare a thought for those people that have been caused trouble by your actions. While it almost certainly isn't entirely HAC commitee members fault that HFS have had to close, you played no small part in it and should be held responsible for what you've done. No interest in promoting flying, just self publicising grumpy old men, like No Bearde Woman.

[mad_jock]

A point about student records

Students have no rights over their records, as such the CAA owns them but if you don't kill yourself within 5 years your school holds them and destroys them unless they sit in a box under a table forgotten about.

You have no right of access to them or the ability to demand them into your possession. By rights Pete is in the wrong for leaving them behind but I can understand why he did. I am sure if you phone Moray up the records will be in their possession next time an aircraft is over to be refuelled if you so wish.

As for the data protection act it is only valid for computer records not 13th copy photocopies.

The airport pass business is a :mad: pain in the :mad: for all concerned, by rights the airport should have cancelled the lot as soon as the sponsor did not exist. If they did offer to extend to HAC the ability to take over the sponsorship it would have been a very rare and probably illegal out break of common sense. But I can also understand why the club didn't want to take over the sponsorship to none members, I wouldn't.

And BTW I also agree no bearde women is a **** stirring :mad: and it paints HAC in very poor light with their constant knife twisting and gloating over the demise of HFS. I am sure their views are long held ones which only a very few of the club membership hold.

[silverknapper]

Call me cynical but I find it hard to believe anyone is idiotic enough to pay for 100 hrs up front at any school or FTO. Even a fully integrated course is paid up in installments. It must have been a hell of a deal to sign up for, even then only a fool would. The 10 hr price in advance was excellent. Any less than that and sadly that may be why the school struggled, given the fuel price.

[Boabity]

The data protection act covers all information that can be used to identify an individual - written or otherwise. You're right though it doesn't cover photocopies but it doesn't admonish an organisation from distributing photocopies.

When I last checked you have freedom to access of your student records at any time and you in fact have to agree with the training provider that the details are correct before signing. As for ownership of the records I do not know, it seems sensible that the CAA would own them. It's good that Pete has left them behind, I'll give the CAA a call in the morning to find out how to recover them.

The sponsor for the passes still exists, it's just not trading but that's just a minor point, the airport should have been able to facilitate the replacement of passes quick and easy.
I suspect that the legalities are fairly grey, it's not a customs airport so it doesn't follow the same requirements for identifying yourself. Nonetheless knowing that it was at the request of the HAC commitee is irritating to say the least.

We all know who No Bearde Woman (Mr Blobby) is, why can't the members just get rid? flying in the north will be better once he's gone :)

[Boabity]

Not sure the legal stuff you mention there is correct Jock, the data protection act only talks about information that you can use to identify yourself name, address, dob etc. it doesn't specify how it's stored. My sentiment doesn't change though, I'd be really worried if training returned to HAC, word has it that they've already asked Leading Edge to do the flight training. could it be that this (for some reason) was the plan since they started on HFS? Gone are the days of cheap training at Inverness if that's true :(

[no bearde woman]

fact!! instructors wages bounced
they took your money when they had no intention of supplying the service you paid for !!

they were taking your money while insolvent to do a runner to Newcastle
there house is up for sale
there pa28 was taken by tayside aviation because they hadn't paid there maintenance bills

they took your money while insolvent

hfs are not in administration it is a farce to flush you all out and make off with your money
call 01463 715555
or read the inverness courier tomorrow on line after 1 pm

this is not unfortunate, but a calculated theft of your monies

[no bearde woman]

i am not an old foggy
i am sad for the loss of those who have lost there money
some are young chaps who wanted a career as a pilot and did paper rounds and milk rounds to pay for it.
you might say that some can afford to lose it

but no one deserves to have it stolen from them

theft is theft is theft

[scottish_ppl]

There's quite a few years now since Peter Brookes sent me off solo in a 152 at Inverness, after surviving my many attempts at learning to land it, and I have flown many hours in his aeroplanes since then. I am very sorry to see the Highland Flying School fold, and wish Peter, and also Maggie who I do not know, all the best for the future.

I am sure right now having seen the business they have built up over many years fail they are feeling pretty bruised, and the obnoxious rants of the bearded idiot above, who could well be the same person who is feeding the Courier stories, might be a clue to at least some of the reasons why it went under, and the pressure they were subjected to. I do not believe any dishonesty will be revealed as the cause. I am sure like many people in similar circumstances with a business in trouble they struggled along as long as possible hoping to turn it around, until the mounting bills and problems became too much.

I was a member of the HAC until recent events. I will not be rejoining anytime soon as I find the role played by the club (or more accurately the committee)in this leaves a very bad taste.

[arr]

what about us people who dont care about the politics and just want to learn how to fly? can we continue our ppls with only our log books?what about exams we have already passed?must we have training records to back up our logs or do we need both? where do we stand?

[mad_jock]

Well your student records have your surname name on it thats it and an Intial on it if you have a common name. It may contain a photocopy of your medical and your exam form.

The Data Protection Act covers any data which can be used to identify a living person. This includes names, birthday and anniversary dates, addresses, telephone numbers, fax numbers, email addresses and so on. It applies only to that data which is held, or intended to be held, on computers ('equipment operating automatically in response to instructions given for that purpose')


There is additions to that like sales diary's for commercial use.

And the training records are the one of the first documents that get taken for evidence in the event of a student accident. If you do a search for the BAe systems instructor that got sued by someone's parents after the student flew into a hill. Its actually quite an important document for both instructor and student. And I was rubbish at keeping them up to date.


As for if it was planned, I doubt very much, I really don't see anyone seeing that the school was going to shut that quick.

As for how cheap it is? well I don't think 85 quid an hour will be seen again. 60 quid for fuel, 10 quid for engine replacement 10 quid maint and annuals, 5 quid insurance and landing card.

The cheapest I could see them doing at is £105 an hour solo and £120 dual. If its anything less than that they will get into the same trouble as the School.

We shall see how it pans out after all the dust settles. This time next year they will have gone back to the old moan of the blokes using the womens bog, widdling on the seat and using all the bog paper.

Arr pm in bound

[Boabity]

As it's well known, small business run onto rough ground very fast. They wrote a few cheques that didn't have funds to clear, what you're not talking about is what happened in the months prior to that and that can be almost exclusively attributed to No Bearde Woman (yes we know exactly who you are) and the rest of the HAC commitee.

The Brooks almost certainly mismanaged their finances, that is without question and it's understandable that people should be cross at them but they weren't malicious, they were genuinely nice people who made some crap decisions, unlike No Bearde Woman and the rest of his HAC commitee who are just mean spirited malcontents. It makes sense that they might need to sell their house to pay for their mistakes, it also makes sense that after 2 or more years of mistreatment from No Bearde Woman and the rest of the HAC commitee that they have decided that enough is enough and it's time to go where they don't sound weird.

I and a great many others doubt that it's the result of a great swindle, they're not fraudsters, the real (convicted) fraudster is now providing services and help to none other than HAC, I don't want my information being in the hands of convicted fraudsters, do you?

Lets wait and see what happens with the administrators. Administration after all requires an administrator, being insolvent is what happens almost immediately before. So far, nothing actually illegal has been done, unless you have actual evidence, which of course you don't as you would have given all of that to the Inverness Courier, we can all expect such a marvelous piece of investigative journalism as deserves a pulitzer prize.

Arr, I'm sure there will be further training soon and the local instructors and examiners will be able to help you out. Have patience :) the school has only been shut for 4 days ;)

[arr]

aye i dont mind waiting til things get sorted but i dont fancy having to resit all my exams. what about the hours i have already done?can the caa accept logbooks alone as proof of hours done or do they need the training records too?

[Boabity]

Arr I don't know the exact details as I'm not an instructor, your logbook is a legal document (make sure it's signed). As far as we seem to know so far is that all your documents will still be in the HFS building, jock mentioned that the local PPL examiner will be the person in charge of what happens next to them. I'm sure he's getting alot of requests as this is typed hopefully there will be a way of administering the student records so that people can get all their exam certs and hours logged counting towards the rest of their ppl course which can be finished with another training provider.

Sit tight for a few more days and more actually useful information will become clear.

Jock, you're right I had a good read through the ICO website, it's hardly clear but sadly I'm not protected by Data Protection. I just do not want HAC to get my student records, I don't trust what they might do. What can I do?

[mad_jock]

There isn't anything in your training records which can be used that you haven't already provided if you have been a member.

There will be a sheet with all your flights recorded and depending how verbose the instructors was either exercise number and SATIS next to it or a bit more long winded if you had things to sort out.

If you examination form was in there it will have you exam marks on it. And if solo a copy of you medical if they have bothered taking one.

[HF1]

Training records should have been kept and Peter should be able to copy them for students, I suspect he will do this although difficult in the short term with the building being secured by the airport at present.
Otherwise check with Flight crew licensing, Gatwick.

Training still exists at Inverness but it is obviously it is in flux at present with only limited space.
It will improve and stabilise but probably not to the previous levels.

There is also training at Kinloss cheaper, more hassle in some ways but good, it depends where you live and your individual circumstances.

As per Mad Jock and others the flying is pretty spectacular up here but the costs have risen.

Can I make a request that we all get back to flying and try to help people out that have been caught up in all this. I am sure Kinloss will try to do the same. There are going to be a lot of students out there needing a hand.

Finally, with regards to the HAC requesting all the training records I would think this very unlikely to have happened and even more unlikely to be complied with.

[no bearde woman]

there house has been done up since Christmas ready for the great escape !!

time will tell, i ain't holding my breath

sw feel free to visit as a lot of people still do

people were putting in money only two weeks ago, and they took it in the knowledge that the were closing, that isn't a bad business decision.
you can make up your own mind as to what it is.

i know what the people who got caught out think of it.. the advice from there lawyers are all, surprise surprise of the same opinion.

[XV255]

Administrator

Mr. Darral Warwick
Armstrong Watson
Fairview House
Victoria Place
CA1 1HP
T: 01228 591000

I spoke to the airport today. They have not been told what to do with any contents of the building and have secured it for all obvious reasons, this includes training records.

I was with HFS and have around 14 hours. Now looking for another provider who can take learning credits and hopefully fly tomahawks... HAC?

[XV255]

Just after sending my last, the postman pops through a letter informing me that I can continue my NPPL with HFS and use my ELC.

Lucky for me that did not come last week otherwise I would have lost the lot! (might get a loto ticket today)

On a side note, what happened to the instructors etc?

XV255

[mad_jock]

Just re-read the posts I don't think its a committee member who is stirring everything.

I think you lot are going to have to blame someone else apart from any of them for the posts. And Mr Blobby although gifted with the same ability as myself of putting ones foot in the mouth would certainly not post pished.

Pete's obviously come under the rath of the Alderqueer feud network. I am not surprised he is legging it. There will be a bit of white settler doing well all thrown in as well.

[Airbus319]

I believe the connection lately between HFS and HAC is yet another of the bad decisions pehaps coming from the M + P school of business.

HAC were not allowed to sub let their property at inverness airport.... enough said.

I do not think that HAC were very instrumental in the demise of HFS but not entirely blameless.

On the HAC commitee getting the HFS passes cancelled (if this is true) then why have they not cancelled their own ex members passes (of which I used one only last thursday). They should get their own house in order first.

Why would HFS pass holders require to use them to get airside now HFS are not flying ? (hopefully in future).is this not a security risk....

When I did not renew my membership with HAC (mainly because the all powerfull commitee (and the longer serving members did give them this power) did not find it nessasary to contact members before making serious decisions or were transparent about a future training provider) i changed my airport pass with airport authorities at no cost whatsoever.

I now believe the charge levied for passes issued to HAC members goes straight into HAC coffers.

They may have my pass back when they refund the charge otherwise it will remain my keepsake. It is also handy to have 2 incase I decide to go flying and dont have my personal flying kit with me...ha ha

On a more serious note i have been told by security changes are afoot in this department anyway, so I may end up with two keepsakes of the best flying in the country.

Maggie would you please refrain from having other people post your bidding on this site and have the bottle to do it yourself and sign it so..... (you all know who you are)'

Derek Inverness

[lplFSpaxagent]

Blimey this is a bit of a shock!

I have gained around 18 hours at HFS then stopped due to moving down to Liverpool for work and I completely forgot about the place until today when I wanted to book myself a few refreshers!

It's a real shame that the school has closed, I always found the staff to be very friendly and there was always a good atmosphere when I trained there.

I'm sure this question may have been asked before, so sorry beforehand but can anyone advise me how I could receive my training records?

Many thanks,

Owen

[no bearde woman]

i hear there is a new training provider moving in to inverness

its nothing to do with the old one from what i am hearing

anyone got any news ?????

[preduk]

That was quick!

[mad_jock]

I don't have a clue who it is, and I am not really surprised one of the southern schools will soon be pitching up.

100 plus PPL students in the area to finish off.

Have you applied for the receptionist's job yet no bearde woman?

And which ever school it is, you would be well advised not to mail shot any membership lists that have come into your possession. The people up north are quite different to down south and it could back fire quite spectacularly

[madlandrover]

Have you applied for the receptionist's job yet no bearde woman?

You're thinking along those lines too? Interesting...

As many others have said the flying at HFS was superb. It was a shame that it and the apparent friendliness were rarely matched by comments once the door had closed behind people, especially former instructors. I suspect medical issues might have had a certain amount to do with this, and coping with the various political issues can hardly have been easy! Whatever the circumstances - and sadly I know rather more than I want to about them and how little credit they do some people - the source of flying in Inverness will be greatly missed. A collection of privately owned aircraft in a drafty & damp hangar can in no way replace a busy flying school as a means of entertainment and easy thrills!

[Squawk7143]

Well there aren't many flying training providers around in Scotland!

But Inverness could do a lot worse. Once thing is for sure, if it is the team from the central belt then a friendlier and more professional outfit you couldn't hope to meet.

However, the only thing louder than the sound of piston engines turning under this particular regime will be the sound of cash registers ringing... get ready for a culture shock.

I wish those (All) who have lost out in this the very best of luck but for my money, Inverness will never be the same again.

Squawk

[Boabity]

HAC have posted personal details of the Brooks rather than posting the name and address of the administrator. Hardly the act of a friendly flying club. If I was them I would take it down.

I had thought no bearde woman was one of two people, both of whom are irritating but only one has such poor grammar, I guess prison does that to some folk. ;) Personally I thought it was Blobby but I can at least credit him with the ability to know the difference between There, Their and They're.

I heard on the grape vine that both Maggie and Peter have started contacting their creditors. People will get something back it seems :) and they haven't disappeared to Newcastle after all.

There are one of two training providers that I can think of, Leading Edge who want their instructors self employed and have the strangest looking payment schemes or Tayside Aviation who will have everyone wearing stripes and ties!
Don't really know alot about either of them but they can't be any less organised that HAC or HFS :D.

Then again, Administration is only the beginning, it's possible that they might find a buyer for HFS or they might want to try and trade out of the current situation given that they wouldn't be able to sell the Tomahawks or the warrior.

[Mike744]

I've checked with Armstrong Watson to confirm they are actually the appointed administrators. FYI a liquidation meeting is being planned for the 6th April.
As one of the many creditors they now have my contact details.

[mad_jock]

Personally I think it will be a fleeting visit of the new school. The airport rent is fecking expensive even for a box room.

The ball ache of getting the planes south every 50 hours cannot be described. Thank god for the VFR corridor down the A9 with a train track taking you where you want to go.

I think after people have been stung in Inverness for the trial flights the market won't be the same again for years.

The weekly flyers will split themselves between Kinloss and Highland Flying and the new lot, the intensive courses will disappear or go to Kinloss. HIghland flying doesn't really need any great numbers in fact to many and it becomes a pain. It will be still be by far the cheapest on the site just because of its fixed costs by having access to the HAC building.

In a years time HAC will still shaft Moray at the spot landing competition at Fern, the committee will still be winding members up, the gents toilets will still be minging. Will the new school will still be around? I have my doubts but only time will tell.

And Madlandrover about 90% of the past instructors all either work with each other or still occasionally see each other. It is well known what comments are made about us after we leave. It actually became a bit of a joke. The fact that 6 years after you left you could provoke a 15 min tirade by just taxing past in a Jetstream is really quite remarkable.

[Soaring Mad]

In reference to arr, i was one of those who saved up money from a paper round and did luckily complete my training last month. Forget all the politics can anyone tell me if i can hire aircraft to continue flying. I am relatively young and just want to do what i love and trained for. FLY!!!!

[oynedy]

With reference to an earlier post by Arr who is worried about the training logs and exam results - I spoke to both the CAA and the Administrators today and they have agreed that the records will be sent to the CAA where they can be forwarded to whichever training organisation you choose to go with to finish your training.

I too have completed 19 hours but have paid for 45.:eek:

As an 'outsider', not knowing who any of the posters are or the politics between the school and the club; is anyone willing to offer some advice on who to continue my training with or where all the speculation comes from? Initially I was worried with all the talk of the Brooks 'doing a runner' and the 'non-existant' administrators but it seems that some of the info posted can't be entirely accurate after all.

PM's gratefully received if too shy to post publicly :ok:
Regards to all,
Dave Young

[mad_jock]

To be honest soaring and I know it might cost a bit.

Why don't you go and try and get 6 of you together that are in the same boat and approach the administrator and see if you can buy one of the tommys. You should be able to get one for 2k-2.5k a share. Just phone up Dundee and offer large amounts of beer to the engineers to tell you which one is the best.

You can leave it with HF to rent out if you so wish to cover some of the fixed costs.

In fact if anyone does decided to go down this route give me a PM as I would be interested and I can think of someone else who may be as well.

And what am I say spot landing at Fern I meant Dornoch.

[preduk]

I would love to buy a share in the aircraft as well, training costs would be very low if you could find an instructor.

[XV255]

2.5K for a share, sounds like a plan to me. do we have the foundation of like minded group forming from the ashes?

I would be in....

Happy to co-ordinate pm's :hmm:

[mad_jock]

Well I could get my rating back and the other chap I am thinking about would be getting his examiner's and Instructors back. Insurance would be as cheap as it gets with 2 instructors in the group with 7000 hours between us.

The training would still have to be run through HF so you would have to bung them something to cover the RTF costs.

H'mm send me a pm and we can continue by email I don't think we need to discuss it on the thread. It could be a win win for all concerned including the aero club.

[Dan the weegie]

Hi folks,

This is all very sad, I had just completed my FI and had hoped to start teaching in the spring. Anyways, I'll hopefully be online soon with HF and will be able to provide through the week training at HAC to those people that are stuck. If you're not from Inverness then there are several great training providers in central scotland, I can recommend Tayside as I completed my PPL/CPL/FIC with them and for the most part, the customer service was very high, the aircraft were in excellent condition and the instruction was always very good.
I've been trying to find a way to help folk with their documentation but it's all with the administrators at the moment so sadly there is little I can do.
For those that have lost money and still need to train, or for those that are very close to completeing I can offer a little help as I will be happy to complete your training at no instructor fee. This isn't a totally benevolent gesture as I need the hours too but it's all I can offer.

PM me for my contact details and we can discuss it.
Obviously those like mad jock have ratings already but there are several (like myself) who to some degree have had the rug pulled out from under them and this is what we want to do for a living at least for a few years :) it goes without saying that I'd appreciate it if you could refer those in training to people like myself, Neil and Erin who at the moment don't have a job :(.

Danny

[arr]

Boss bids to keep flying school operating - Press & Journal (http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1136033?UserKey=)
Interesting reading

[cavoktoday]

:confused:Please tell me what thread or www link I should follow to find what HAC has said. I can find all sorts of threads but none that I can identify as comming from HAC.:confused:

[no bearde woman]

the school only owned two tommies
the other two are owned by the director and leased back to the school

be very aware of this !!!

[dublin_eire]

I know Leading Edge are renting out the KG tomahawk there for £100 an hour if bought in a ten hour block. I'm thinking is there any way of renting this and finding an instructor willing to help out to finish off PPL's for the likes of myself who have been caught up in the middle of all this? I know there would be a few fellas up for this. It could be an hour gaining exercise for those out of work and a lifeline to us......

Any advice on this would be much appreciated! Does anybody know of any other good training facilities in the area apart from Moray because I don't think it will be an option for me as non-British?

[XV255]

For those that have lost money and still need to train, or for those that are very close to completeing I can offer a little help as I will be happy to complete your training at no instructor fee. This isn't a totally benevolent gesture as I need the hours too but it's all I can offer. :D

1) Join HAC
2) Hire plane
3) Contact Dan / HAC Instructor / Neil etc
4) Come to an arrangement
5) Fly
Simples...

If HAC / Leading Edge took MOD credits, I would be taking off on Friday if they did...

[preduk]

The only other idea I've had is theres a Bolkow Junior 208 available which is pretty cheap to fly (£80 odd an hour) so I may try renting that out, although I'm not sure what the Bolkow is like to fly.

[mad_jock]

There are many many a bog trotter in the UK military and there are ways and means of checking you out.

It might takes a few weeks extra but it shouldn't be a problem.

We had 4 lads from your neck of the woods in my TA unit and they didn't have a problem. Turned out one of them had a player as a cousin which he didn't know about, and he still got his clearance through the same time as the others about a week after the rest of us.

And just to note that 100 quid an hour personally I feel is quite a good rate and if it includes a landing card is still cheaper than you will find else where in scotland.

But unless you are going to burn the whole ten hours in under a week please don't pay up front.

And for the others the article in the courier is now on line (http://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news/fullstory.php/aid/9080/Troubled_flying_school_closes_hangar_doors.html)

[Stratus Fractus]

From the courier

"A former employee with the flying school warned some time ago that the business was facing difficulty.


"They have also ruined a wonderful relationship between the school and the aero club," he said yesterday. "It was the best flying school in the country, socially and training wise""

Shouldnt that say a ":mad: former employee with a:mad:". I imagine a lot of this started with this person.

What do you say No Bearde?

[bunroy]

Can't get a proper word in edge-wise. Too many pundits telling us things that we haven't heard yet. Anyway, we can't spare the time from tea swilling and there is a plate of soup on the go. And being insulted, and good fun talking over the thousands of flying hours wot we have done-just up our street. We have to move that stash of cash from the Airside Passes before the airport find it. Oh, I forgot, haven't issued a pass for a year now. Enjoyed the Quiz night last night, timing was quite ironic and we apologise.
If you want to hear another side to the vitriole please come and see us although there isn't much to say except turn most comments through 180 degrees for some semblance of reality. Very pleased someone earlier is guaranteeing us our £8,000 outstanding and we will get it back, Hello...

[Raptorstick]

I've read what the new CFI for Highland Flying, James Hayward has said in his introductory statement on the HAC website and its good to hear that another flying training provider will start at Inverness!

Although foremost, what has happened at HFS is beyond unfortunate!

I was someone who paid up front for the 45 hrs, but luckily for me I used about 41 of the 45hrs and majority of ground exams so pretty much used up all the money I gave, but I feel for those who have just 0-20+ hrs and paid for 45!

Although it may take a while for Highland Flying to get started, it maybe an option to find and finish off the final few flights at another school and the final ground exams.....how many of us are in this position eh!!! lol.

I like Dan's idea (above) for those that need to finish the licence....prob chase this up.

For the CFI James Hayward (Highland Flying) statement, click this link: Highland Aero Club (http://www.highlandaeroclub.co.uk/)
Click the yellow fixed wing section, and within there you will see his name about 1/3 of the way down the page, then click the link for the statement.

[madlandrover]

It actually became a bit of a joke.

I'm genuinely glad you and the others can see things that way - it wasn't always particularly pleasant seeing how people were treated behind their backs! Good to see that there are efforts to get training back to Inverness on an informal footing, it doesn't take an FTO to do PPL training.

[Dan the weegie]

Hi there folks,

Just a quick update to apologise. It appears I was a bit premature in offering my services for HAC/HF. They are extremely busy at the moment regrouping and deciding what they are planning on providing and I had really jumped too far ahead of myself. Sorry about that.

Longer term, I still plan on not charging anyone an instructor fee that has lost money to HFS for PPL training and I have every intentions of sticking to that.

Best of luck folks, I'm sure things will turn out alot less gloomy than it seems

Danny

[silverknapper]

Contact LE or tayside and do it under their umbrella Dan. I would distance myself from the Aero club as much as possible. The committee seem to be in overdrive at the moment, one member in particular who seems to think he is the authority up here and is continually sticking his nose where it's not wanted.

[no bearde woman]

g-bxza
g-brlp

g-info on the caa website

need i say more

[Squawk7143]

Bearde,

Our flying club aircraft has a single name as the "owner" on G-INFO but I can assure you that the individual neither paid for the aircraft nor owns any part of it, nor is the aircraft owned by a syndicate.

[Stratus Fractus]

Hey No Bearde, thanks for the PM. You wouldn't really get the lawyers on your old pal would you? Evidently you would so:

I withdraw my statement and hereby apologise. Sorry. It was just a rumour I heard and I don't know what really happened.

I guess I'm just a "bit" annoyed that such a good school which has helped me so much in the past has been brought down by such bitterness, lots of people have lost their livelihoods and now I can't go flying.

I wouldnt want to be next to get on the wrong side of you!

[no bearde woman]

it was not a good place to be at that time.

a lot of lies and rubbish has been written, which could have been detrimental to people's life's,


all this is now under the bridge and life should get back to normal,
there will be training up here, but like with most things ,
time and money,and gearing up to provide everyone with what they want
just cant happen overnight,

although it must be said its looking positive !!!!!
i know of one big announcment coming on the first of may that will help to put meat on the bone , after all this is a wonderfull place to fly

[herriot]

I've been keeping an eye on these posts and it seems apparent that some accusations / comments being made may be based on a truly spiteful vindictiveness from individuals who have a very personal axe to grind.

In life it is, at best, disappointing, when persons carry out such a selfish course of action for such peculiar gain. It certainly brings them no credit whatsoever and, indeed, usually comes back to haunt them.

It should be remembered there are far more people (than the Brooks) directly affected by this debacle in varying degrees - some should perhaps reflect on that and their conduct in this sad affair......

[BabyBear]

Herriot, it is true to say there are a few examples of Schadenfreude on this thread. Sad people really!

[arr]

ok so all the training records are locked in HFS??how do i go about getting copies to take with me to my next flying school??

[Mike744]

I contacted the CAA about the training records and was directed to the liquidation administrators. At present I don't know if the records are still at HFS building or the administrators or the CAA. Anyone with info?

Another news clip:
Flying school closure could cost airport £30,000 - The Inverness Courier (http://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news/fullstory.php/aid/9103/Flying_school_closure_could_cost_airport__A330,000.html)

[gibr monkey]

Hi ya folks,

Just wanted to put my two penneth in. It is very sad that the school has been disolved for a better word. I'm sure may be the people have lost £1000's may not agree, but have a thought about the people who worked here and are outstanding wages ! It was their livelyhood, some are owed months of wages, more fool them you may say. But these guys including myself wanted to help students to acheive their goal ! AND still do ! SO the purpose of the post, if we can still help you folks out I'm sure the original instructors will try the up most hardest too.
PM if I can be of any help.

[Otto Throttle]

It all started with pink headsets..................:}

[Peace_On_Earth]

I for myself enjoyed earning - what must be called incredible in our so often over constrained world - the unique privilege to pilot an aeroplane or as we say be the PIC at HFS in 2004. Friendly forthcoming lads and ladies both at HFS and HAC. An open and friendly atmosphere demonstrating the best one could expect. But what I am reading right now is just unbelievable. Even for an outsider it is more than evident that a "no guts" frustrated and envious insider has blown some issues completely out of proportion, for the sake of destruction and auto-satisfaction only. I am sure it's not the owners nor the flight instructors, so who's left, I ask you?
Anyways, it's sad to see such a great crew falter and such pettiness destroy a genuine setup, very unfortunately you guys way up North are proving the international bs again: small community = petty thoughts!

[TurningFinals]

For anyone who is interested, there is a meeting for creditors of HFS on 6/04/09 in the Holiday Inn Express. In the oh so handy location of Perth. Great for students based in the North East area.

[Mike744]

I asked the HFS liquidation administrators about relocating my training records and have today received the following reply;

" The Directors of the Company retain control of the books and records until the Company has been formally wound up and 'I (Daryl Warwick of Armstrong Watson) have been advised by them that they are making the necessary arrangements for the student flying records to be returned to the Civil Aviation Authority who will then be contacting students to arrange transfer of their records accordingly "

Hope this helps to put a few minds to rest .

Addition: The creditors Meeting at the Holiday Inn Express commences at 10.15am on the 6th April in the Inveralmond Room.

I'll be there :suspect:

[TurningFinals]

Unfortunatly i can't make it to Perth. If you wouldn't mind Mike, could you post a quick run down of what is said at the meeting? I would imagine there will be a few people who can't make it.

[Mike744]

Yes TurningFinals I'll give a short report on PPRuNe. Seems odd to me that the meeting is in Perth rather than Inverness - maybe they don't want to be overcrowded by creditors :hmm:

[TurningFinals]

I was thinking that too. Maybe a not-so-clever way of trying to get less people to show up, and thanks in advance!

[mad_jock]

It all started with pink headsets

Unfortunately you are not wrong.

That thread was when the school started pulling in students country wide instead of just relying on local students.

It is also probably the start of most of the problems that the set in place the growing stand off between the club and the school.

As I have said before the mind set and admin involved in intensive 4 week courses is quite different to servicing weekly flyers and trial flight markets. There is allot of faces coming and going who never really introduce themselves to club members and basically treat the place like a doss house.

It aids the club if the membership fee's are payed (bone of contention) and also by the fact that there are more planes available at a reduced cost. But it is also a huge pain for the members as the club does not feel or look like a club any more. And they have a raft of cheeky young ppl students who don't know or care about the club or the facilities that are available to them.

As an example. in 2008

Young student who is planning a nav ex is in the briefing room with charts spread on the table. Committee member comes in after seeing that the common room is trashed after having 10-30 people using it through the day. Now committee meeting is the same day every month since 2001 so he tells the student that he needs to move, probably quite gruffly, as he his pissed off that the common room is not very nice for members again.

As far as the student is concerned they have payed for a course and some old fart is chucking them out of the only decent place you can spread a chart out in peace in the building. And replys in an equally pissed off tone to the old fart.

Who's right and who's in the wrong doesn't really matter. You can see that a very large school hanging off a club in a building which isn't big enough will always lead to falling outs.

As for the meeting being in Perth I really don't blame them if they want to get anything productive done. If they did it in Inverness they could quite easily get 200-300 people turning each owed 150 quid and demanding it with another 50 odd who are owed significantly more with another 5-10 **** stirrers chucked in for good measure. And from having been sent to one of these meetings before. Not alot gets done apart from the administrator introducing themselves and telling the meeting what proof you need to supply as to your claim on the company and where you have to write to with this proof.

No doubt the courier will be there to print the details in the next courier. But if your owed more than 500 quid I would suggest you get to it or give someone going a letter stating they can act on your behalf in regards to the issue at the meeting just in case.

[TurningFinals]

Today (3/4/09) HIAL ''impounded'' HFS's 2 remaining aircraft. They have blocked them in with various airside vehicles. They have also put signs on the cockpit windscreens saying that they are 'refusing movement' due to unpaid airport fees. The same has happend to G-BXZA in SYY.

[MartinCh]

some are owed months of wages, more fool them you may say. But these guys including myself wanted to help students to acheive their goal !

I may have been naive in the past, being such bleeding heart, but when it comes to work and being paid, ehm. Surely, if instructing for free in small club as fun, OK. But if you don't get paid but the schools is getting cash from students for lessons you fly with them..
Yes, I've been screwed over too. Unpaid shift here or there when leaving work and 'records get lost' etc. Only worth making a point in Small claims court at one's expense (time, hassle, appl fee if not proven).
I'm still 'in training', but 'calling it a day', backing up clock-in cards etc and waving goodbye until paid or lawfully claimed is a way to go.

[no bearde woman]

its now clear that hfs were taking money while they new that they were insolvent. naughty!!!!

how do you lose £176.000.00 in 6 months and that's only what they accepted. a few creditors have not claimed, and some claims were rejected by the crooks.

I'm sure Maggie and peter are grateful for all the dosh, just to add insult to injury they still enjoy the luxury of owning there home outright.

my last reclolection of its value was when pb anounced it was worth 350k,owned outright with your dosh.

[gla-lax]

no beardy woman,

can you expand on what went on at the meeting today or do i have to wait for the paper online tomorrow.

[no bearde woman]

or full figures visit the highland aero club website

however i have been a wee bit off the mark

if you look you will see a figure that adds up to close on £220.000.00

less assets that are over estimated as landing fees and parking fees and maintenance by hial and owing monies to tayside. would have to be paid for these assets to be removed from there location

please note the 2 properties that they own are not in the pot
surprise not!!!!!!

its sick that they don't put there two houses in the pot to pay all that are owed money

the last estimate of their house fully paid for by students money was and i quote peter £350.000.00

the pilot house is in a different company name

it is amazing that they could lose so much in six months, in fact its impossible unless it was pre- planned

they undoubtedly took monies while they were knowingly insolvent

i do feel sorry for all students and pilots who have lost out

the truth is they are living a life of luxury at our expense

the good news is they wont be seen in flying again !!!!!!!!

[daveinnottm]

I have been learning to fly at Tollerton, Nottingham.

I did a couple of training flights with HFS last summer.
They were disorganised, but the quality of the instruction was fine.

I booked 6 training flights in the Xmas - New year period
but over the week that I was in Inverness, there was freezing fog
and usually the easyjet 737s couldnt get in/out never mind a PA38
and I didnt get a single flight.

I dont know how long that fog lasted, but they must have been hit hard financially by it.

Its unfortunate that they have gone down, but I didnt get the impression that they were untrustworthy or crooks.

I wonder if their aircraft will be going cheap from the receivers???

[Computer says NO!]

Oh dear, just had a look at the figures posted on the HAC website:eek:
What a sorry state of affairs, I cant believe the Brooks couldn't/didn't see that one coming!

I feel sorry for all the public who bought trial flight vouchers who will almost definitely not see their money again.

What an end to such a great place! :{

[no bearde woman]

they orchestrated there own demise
this was nothing more than a scam
a school that was doing so well only to go down within a period of six months owing 220.000.00 that takes some doing
and taking money right up to the end of unsuspecting students and pilots

at least they are history now

however they owe quite a few people a lot of money who are not going to lie down and take it

we know you have our dosh and we are going to get it back

<<edit: details removed. KG.>>

[Keygrip]

no bearde - I am the *first* to roll my eyes when I get numerous somewhat pathetically bleeting reports of messages that are libelous or unfair..will notify my solicitor forthwith...etc etc etc.

Your posts, however, are taking an ugly turn of direction and phraseology. I know you're upset at the financial losses, I know you're all upset about the conduct of <<HFS*>> - to constantly repeat the words "crooks" and "scam" is not the way I expect you to deal with this situation in a forum whos title includes the word "Professional".

You most certainly are not being so.

The legal system - not YOU - will decide if the persons involved are crooks. The courts will decide, not YOU, if it was a deliberate scam.

Of course you are all entitled to your opinions - but don't try to let your bitterness come out through the pages of this forum.

Posting the personal address and home telephone number of those involved in this situation is NOT what the "Professional Training" forum is for.

You may very well be 100% right in everything you say - I have no idea. I do, however, expect you to be 100% factual, professional and polite whilst addressing the subject here.

<<edit: Technical rephrase - at request of "bunroy">>

[no bearde woman]

it is with sadness i can inform you that i am right

[gla-lax]

given the assets and the level of debt i doubt very much if anyone will get more than 20p in in the pound owed.

i hope the majority have paid by credit card. section 75 credit consumer act will get you you money back.

[Finn47]

News article just out here:

Troubled flying school owes £174,000 - The Inverness Courier (http://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news/fullstory.php/aid/9191/Troubled_flying_school_owes__A3174,000.html)

[herriot]

Keygrip,

You are absolutely correct in what you say. Being "professional" and having the ability to put forward reasoned arguement for debate do not seem to form part of the make up here.

Such forums were not designed, I would have hoped, for the display of such personally based vitriol, where possibly libelous statements could be made by an individual hiding behind an anonymous "username" - but is it, bearing in mind some responses, as anonymous as hoped??

[coineach]

I leaned to fly in Tees-side with Tees-side Flying Club in the early 1980s and my first instructor was Peter Brooks, so I can say that I know him, albeing a good number of years ago. I fould Peter to be a first class instructor and still remember that day when I landed G-AXOZ while still "under the hood" after having done some instrument flying with Peter giving me verbal commands on what to do. His accurancy was uncanny - straight down the centre line.

It totally amazes me the c*** that is being written about the demise of the Highland Flying Club and Peter's involvment. No-one apears to mention anything about the many years that the club ran successfully and the number of pilots who were trained without problems.

If anyone of the "contributors" had any business accumen at all they would know that one NEVER puts all their eggs in one basket. I am actually surprised that the aircraft are actually owned by the HFC and not by a separate company and only leased to HFC. Having the buildings owned by a separate company is good commercial sense as is Peter's house being owned by himself (and his wife - presumably) and totally separate from his business activities.

I just wonder how many of you would be crying foul if you were made redundant from your employment and the administrator ask you to give up YOUR house in order to "balance the books" of your employer's (now defunct) company. So why should Peter's home be so discussed. He will have worked very hard over the years to purchase his house, so is entitled to his "reward", AS IS ALL OF US.

Flying clubs, irrespective how well they are run, are always going to be in a precarious financial position. They are high cost operations and very dependant on the financial stability of the clients and external economic situations, such as financial constraints by banks etc.. It is no wonder then how many fail. I remember one in Aberdeen which went bust in the late 1970s when I was considering learning to fly - again there were a lot of "rumours" going about concerning the way the operation was being run - whether true or untrue - but the flying club, soon after, ceased trading and I saved myself money.

When money is tight in a household, the first thing to be curtailed will be hobbys and as flying is so expensive - it will always be the first to go. Remember it is not just YOUR financial situation - it involves ALL other members of the club who are flying and if their financial situation changes, it wil effect you!!!. Therefore it is crass stupidity to pay "up-front" for (especially) a large number of flying lessons unless you get some sort of financial guarantee in case all goes "pear shaped". I never did, always willing to pay that little bit extra to act as an insurance policy. I never had any trouble with paying for my flying, I paid for what I got - WHEN I GOT IT.

Your watchwords should always be:

CAVEAT EMPTOR
(BUYER BEWARE)

[herriot]

Hi all,

Going off a a slight tangent, but does anyone know who these (new) organisations are (and will it help / hinder the situation at Dalcross)?

Highland Aviation Training Ltd., Invernss

and

HIGHLAND FLYING SCHOOL LTD
C/O ALEXANDER IAIN FRASER (TENON GROUP)
JOHNSTONE HOUSE
ROSE STREET
ABERDEEN
AB10 1UD

[SWX833]

Herriot,

Tenon Group are just administrators handling the winding up of Highland Flying School, a bunch of accountants.

As for Highland Aviation Training... I think there's potentially some exciting stuff happening at Dalcross which I'm sure will come out in the wash soon.

[herriot]

Living near Dalcross - I heard this aircraft today. G-INFO gives the owner as:

HIGHLAND FLYING CLUB LTD
74 NEVIS PARK
INVERNESS
IV3 8PP

It used to be one of the Highland Flying School aircraft ........

[Finn47]

New article just published, says the police investigation is over and they could not find any criminal wrongdoing. CAA probe also over, same result.

Police close probe into flying school - The Inverness Courier (http://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news/fullstory.php/aid/10007/Police_close_probe_into_flying_school.html)