Robinson 12 Year Life

[valve guide]

I note that a number of Robinsons are appearing on the market having had 12 year inspections as opposed to total rebuilds. In other words the time goes back to 12 years but the parts still get replaced when they reach 2200. there's one on ebay at the moment. Can anyone shine any light on this, as for a private guy this is ideal, depending on what you had to change for the 12 year inspection?? Thanks.

[moosp]

If what you imply is that there is an aircraft for sale over twelve years of age that has not had a rebuild according to the Robinson maintenance schedule, walk away.

Replacing individual parts when they get to 2200 hours irrespective of their being over twelve years age will most probably invalidate your insurance.

I would be very, very suspicious of aircraft sold on ebay. If it cannot be sold face to face, or by a reputable aircraft sales agent, it's probably a dog.

FWIW

[valve guide]

No it directed you to a buyer as it was a classified advertisement. There just seems to be some confusion. Apparently if the heli hasn't reached 1000 hours you can do this but again not sure thus the post.

[moosp]

Then email Robinson with the details. They are very approachable on this sort of thing, and will tell you what is acceptable.

[R44-pilot]

Moosp.

You can have a 12 year inspection if the machine has done (I believe) less than 1000 hours since new.

It will add a further 12 years to the ship but the remaining hours stay the same. No hours can be added with out O/H only time.

The guys involved in selling them on here will know more......

[helicopter-redeye]

12 year inspection replaces certain parts (blades); does a big overhaul on certain things (engine) and inspects at a main service centre (ie Sloane or similiar in the UK) parts like the swashplate. The aircraft is then certified for another 12 years or to TBO of 2200TT (ie it is NOT reset to 0 time as with a 2200hrs rebuild at 12 years).

As a step forward for making the Robinson fleet more affordable, this is a big leap. No more chucking away servicable parts just because they have not been used as much.

Cost estimated at $75K USD so 'cost' varies with country and the exe rate on the day.

h-r

[Twiddle]

Search for the reg and AAIB, I think if it's the one I saw that it has some history.

[biggles99]

Ed, you are almost correct, and Moosp you are way off.

As far as I know, you don't even have to have the engine overhauled.

Lycoming life their engines at 2000 hours, with a 10% on condition extension.

There is no 12 year life on a Lycoming.

I could be wrong, but any licenced engineering outfit such as London Helicopters or Heliair will be able to confirm this.

So a 12 year old R44 that has been through a Robinson Service Centre Inspection will be good for another 12 years and/or as many hours left between time run since start and 2,200 hours.

Please PM me if you want more info

Big Ls

[helicopter-redeye]

Ok, I'm just going off what Tony told me on Monday when I asked him. This whole 12 year Insp thing is new to them as well, but he did say the engine was to be inspected but if not then thats fine with me. eHR

[Big Pistons Forever]

Lycoming published TBO figures include an hour limit (which varies by engine model) and a 12 yr limit. The engine is deemed to be at TBO at the hour limit or 12 yrs which ever occurs first. Whether the TBO is limiting is determined by the regulatory regime the aircraft/helicopter is operating under.

[valve guide]

Got a reply from Robinson to say no such thing as 12 year inspection, its a rebuild or nothing so beware!!!!

[rotorbrent]

Your Robinson TBO is 2200 hours OR 12 years which ever comes first. So at 12 years a total overhaul is required.

[scooter boy]

I discussed this issue with Kurt Robinson (Frank's son) at Helitech a couple of years back.
BigLs is right.
SB

[helicopter-redeye]

The 12 year inspection has always been there (or all the engineers are wrong) (unlikely).

Its just that the rash of 44s that were bought in the late 1990s are reaching that age so you are seeing this as an option now whereas before most were at schools and got closer to 2200hrs at 12years so had the rebuild.

The engineers view was that at about 1400hrs TT at 12 yrs its worth the rebuild than the inspection. I'm not sure where the 1000hrs line came from as I can't find it written anywhere.

e

[valve guide]

Think I and alot of other people will go with what Robinson say than engineers. Here is the reply to my email:

I've never heard that one ! According to the R22/R44 MM it is 2,200 hrs. or
twelve years which ever occurs first. The twelve year inspection is just
that an inspection. (R22/R44 MM Sec. 2.600)It in no way changes any of the
times. (with the exception of the rotor blades)

Best Regards
Chris Sennett
RHC Tech Support
Ph. 310.539.0508 x208
Fax 310.539.5198
Email [email protected] ([email protected])

[rjtjrt]

When I did Robinson Safety Course with Tim Tucker this question was asked. Reply was 2200hr and 12 yearly are different (obviously). 2200hr is a full rebuild. 12 years is a partial rebuild.
Both are expensive and we were told insufficient difference in cost to make 12 yearly worthwhile unless a high time to run to 2200 hr rebuild.

My question - what is the difference in total cost of 2200hr vs 12 yearly?
John

[biggles99]

Hey guys,

you are all making heavy going here. Read what Chris at RHC has said:

---------------------------

"I've never heard that one ! According to the R22/R44 MM it is 2,200 hrs. or
twelve years which ever occurs first. The twelve year inspection is just
that an inspection. (R22/R44 MM Sec. 2.600)It in no way changes any of the
times. (with the exception of the rotor blades)

Best Regards
Chris Sennett
RHC Tech Support
Ph. 310.539.0508 x208
Fax 310.539.5198
Email [email protected]"

----------------------------

No conflict in that statement, no contradiction or anything contentious.

Some items are lifed at 12 years - the obvious example being the blades, hence Chris's mentioning it. So they will be replaced, regardless of hours or condition.

If the 12 year old R22/R44 passes the inspection, then it can continue to fly until the hours flown reaches 2,200. That's when it needs an overhaul, as opposed to an inspection.

Rather than going round in circles on this forum, for clarification, why not talk to a JAR 145 RHC approved maintenance outfit?

They have the facts, the manuals, the inspection and overhaul schedules and they will be able to give you a ball park guide as to how much a 12 year inspection on your R44 is likely to cost.

And judging from my travels around the UK's maintenance outfits, several of them would welcome the opportunity to quote you. Try Mark Souster at London Helicopters - they've done some in the past. And no, I'm not on commission or connected with them!

One last point, I think that someone mis-understood a point in a previous post of mine relating to the inspection being done at around 1,000 hours.

For clarification, what I was getting at was to do with economics, not certifcations or maintenance schedules.

If your R44/R22 is 12 years old and has flown MORE than 1,200 hours, it is very unlikely that doing a 12 year inpection is going to be economically viable. It would be better to spend the extra money on an overhaul and gain the full 2,200 hours by zero timing the re-built heli. Again, your maintenance organisation will be able to give you the facts.

Hope all this free advice is useful to other owners of R22s/R44s!

PM me for more if you want.

Big Ls