What are the different PPLs?

[VOD80]

Hi, a little quickie question...

What are the different PPL flavours now, and I guess, what are the different privileges associated with them?

I currently have one of the old "never expires" ICAO PPL(A) from the UK CAA. I know that there are JAR PPLs but is there now (or will there be) an EASA PPL?

Can I fly any EASA CofA aircraft anywhere in the world with my old ICAO PPL?

I've tried to search (honestly!) but only found out how to change - nothing that suggests that I HAVE to change.

Thanks in advance!

[421C]

There will certainly be an EASA PPL, from about 2012. The outlook currently is that a JAA PPL will be "automatically" converted to an EASA one, but that a national ICAO PPL issued by an EASA country will have some conversion requirements (see EASA CRT application - Documents list (http://hub.easa.europa.eu/crt/docs/from_21) and right click on the row NPA 2008 17b (from the column in the middle "number") to "View NPA". Page 162-163 details the conversion requirements).

To convert a national EASA country PPL(A) to an EASA PPL(A), in the current draft, requires only demonstrating "the use of radio navigaiton aids."

I emphasise "EASA country" because ICAO PPLs from an 3rd country will not be convertable to an EASA one unless that country has a bilateral treaty (but they may be accepted temporarily).

You certainly can't fly an any EASA aircraft anywhere in the world on your old ICAO PPL, you may be able today to fly one somewhere, depending on national registry rules. After 2012, your old ICAO PPL from an EASA country may lose its validity unless converted.

brgds
421C

[VOD80]

Thanks for that.

Sounds like it'll probably need to be done sooner rather than later, in that case.

A shame, as I like my poo brown CAA thing :{ as well as the fact that it lasts for ever!

Cheers,

Tony

[julian_storey]

412C's post is a pretty reasonable guess as to what MIGHT happen post EASA FCL.

For now, I'd suggest NOT surrendering your lifetime validity CAA PPL. You'll have until 2012 - wait and see what happens :)

[Gertrude the Wombat]

For now, I'd suggest NOT surrendering your lifetime validity CAA PPL.
... also it lets you do things none of the others allow!

(Admittedly not terribly exciting things, and I've never done them, but once you give them up they've gone forever.)

[421C]

Agree with the above. My post is a guess in the sense it conveys the current EASA proposals - they are subject to both the consultation process EASA are running AND then the EU legislative process (which is why the whole thing will take until 2012). I don't see any imperative to convert from CAA to JAA licenses now.
brgds
421C

[IO540]

In general, anybody who has acted out of fear, having read some "proposal" in this business, has always "lost money" :)

One should always wait till as late as possible.

These proposals are often red-hot political and the FCL proposal on ICAO license acceptance post-2012 is the hottest of the red hot stuff currently on offer. It is so hard hitting (it would wipe out the majority of European business jet crews) that many people at the top of the aviation/political scene simply refuse to believe it will ever come about - in anything like the present form.

Historically, licenses have been grandfathered into one thing or another, to avoid widespread protests, but the EU political procedure is is always to hit the punters maximally hard with a really cutting proposal and then "they will be grateful " when it gets watered down a bit (Yes Minister anybody?) so any concessions will not appear until very late.

I have this "issue" with my FAA CPL/IR which according to EASA will become worthless, but I am damned if I am going to drop everything and swat up the JAA exams right this minute. There are a few thousand others in the same situation and most of them have far more powerful phone numbers in their little books than I have.

[Whopity]

Rule 1 Don't change anything until you need to.

Rule 2 Be aware that there is a simple conversion process to a JAA PPL which will "automatically" become an EASA PPL.

Rule 3 Don't leave any conversion too late as there is a load of tripe being talked about conversion criteria. An ICAO PPL is an ICAO PPL at the end of the day and you don't want to be involved in meeting additional requirements.

Most JAA PPL candidates can't demonstrate radio nav adequately on the Skill Test, so requiring experienced National licence holders to demonstrate this as an extra is nonsense. If we go back far enough there wasn't a Nav Test at all and no IF was taught! Will they have to do additional training?

The CAA have recently told some Examiners renewing after a lay off, that they must get a JAA licence if they want to be re-authorised, even though there are currently no requirements to do this!

[VOD80]

OK. I'll hold off for a bit. It is true that I hadn't connected all of this with the 'N' reg thing. That could explain some of the 'official' pressure that I had come across.

I'm just coming back to flying and it's all different now!

Thanks again,

Tony

[VOD80]

Whopity:
Rule 1 Don't change anything until you need to.

Rule 2 Be aware that there is a simple conversion process to a JAA PPL which will "automatically" become an EASA PPL.

Rule 3 Don't leave any conversion too late as there is a load of tripe being talked about conversion criteria. An ICAO PPL is an ICAO PPL at the end of the day and you don't want to be involved in meeting additional requirements.

Hi Whopity,

Thanks for your input. I guess my initial concern was the difficulty in finding the line between your Rule 1 and Rule 3 - not being too quick but not being too late either!

As for the "demonstration of radio nav ability", I though that was not more than the instructor signing a statement in the logbook to the effect that this was done. I remember having done this in my Auster when I was doing my PPL - following a VOR radial.

Are you saying that it is likely to be much more formalised?

This was one thing that was pushing me to a quicker exchange of CAA -> JAA: the conversion seemed to be quite "painless".

Cheers,

Tony