The tatty old RAAF planes sit sadly at Point Cook

[A37575]

Friend of mine and wife visited RAAF Point Cook today. Sign at guard gate says stay in your car until a security honcho walks over. Big line of cars lined up but no security man. Long wait and no one appears. Friend gets out of car walks across the five metres to security hut and Chubb security bloke with big wide brimmed hat growls at him and says "Mate" can't you read the sign" and points at sign which says stay in car until called. Security guard says Point Cook on Amber Alert. Friend thought, Christ - terrorist attack maybe? What the stuff is an Amber Alert? Is that one notch below Red or Green or Pink Alert?

No so. Amber Alert means one RAAF aircraft in the circuit for landing! Friend finally signs the visitors register and drives down the road to Museum area. Sees a dirty looking HS 748 outside static display with what appears to be green stuff over it - maybe salt water from southerly wind from sea but it looked pretty tatty. Hercules on static display for years and one of its tyres flat and obviously neglected. Mirage seen on a parade ground near the guard gate. It has a dirty brown sun shade over it. Usless place to have a Mirage almost out of sight of the public and even if you see it no one allowed to have a closer look.

Media reports a Caribou is going to be donated to Point Cook for a static display. What a waste of a good aeroplane. The static display former RAAF aircraft are a disgrace. They are covered in grime from the elements and seem never to get washed. The RAAF top brass have obviously no interest in keeping the aircraft cleaned and one wonders who is ultimately responsible for this run-down operation. The rudeness of the civilian security guards at the entrance to the base is well known and this information comes from museum staff who get complaints from spectators. Despite lots of visitors you can't even get a coffee or fast food. Been like that for years.

RAAF Base Point Cook has a long and proud history yet overseas visitors must shake their heads in amazement when they see how run down and tatty the outside exhibits have been allowed to become. The Commanding Officer of the base has a lot to answer for.

[allthecoolnamesarego]

A37535

Mate, couldn't agree more about the rude bloke on the gate, he has some issues and I suggest your friend write to the base commander to complain... more complaints, more likely he is to get the flick.

As for the a/c. Did you friend actually go into the Museum itself or did s/he just drive around?

Check this out RAAF Museum: 360deg Views (http://www.airforce.gov.au/raafmuseum/photo_album/multimedia.htm)

The museum has a fantastic display of some very beautiful A/C. The ones you are referring to are covered in a protective rubber 'paint' which will stop corrosion and protect them until a new hangar/display area can be built.

Yes they look crappy, but under the rubber, they should be holding up.

The reason they are out there is that the previous government was planning on selling Point Cook for a number of years, however for a variety of reason the sale didn't go ahead. The base now remains in Defence hands.

Throughout the period of 'uncertainty' nothing was done for the upkeep of the base. When it was decided to remain in hands of Defence, money was spent (RWY lights, surface work, taxy ways, hard stand).

There are plans to spend considerable sums of money to create a purpose built display area covering at least two hangars, so that far more aircraft can be displayed.

Also, don't forget to go there on Tue/Thur/Sun at 1300 for a flying display by a museum aircraft.

Remember, all this is 30 minutes from Melbourne and is FREE!

Hope your friend go's back and has a good look around, I'm sure they'll enjoy it:ok:

[Al E. Vator]

Yes Fanelli - give it a rest, you're issue is boring.

Went to Pt Cook not long ago and loved the museum. It was excellent.

As soon as the aircraft can come in from outside that will be great.

How about opening up the North-Eastern side of the field to civilian operators for hangar construction etc (to enable private owners to escape pricey Moorabbin) and thus allow more $ to flow in to keeping-up the Museum? And what about a small seaplane facility on the Eastern shores of Pt Cook airfield?

Whilst the encroaching housing could be an issue, overwater arrivals and departures would help mitigate this. Pt Cook could be an exciting airfield if a little imagination was used.

Renovating the ex-officers quarters for use by Airline cadets might be a worthwhile excercise too. They could then train entirely at Pt Cook at an integrated facility.

[Roller Merlin]

Base commanders were not to blame for a lack of funding ....the political games of SELL/KEEP over the years meant the base was slowing going to pot until recently. Within Dept PM Julia's electorate and with the battle won to keep PCK (and keep the housing developers at bay), monies are being spent but there is much to fix up after a decade of neglect.

The Museum is a fantastic albeit small operation run by a few dedicated staff and amazingly enthusiastic volunteers. You wont find another museum like it that provides access and close-up view of flying displays all for free. Museum management would love to have all aircraft under cover, but it takes much $$. Maybe when the F111 and Caribou arrive there may be a change!

Contractors on the front gate just do what they are told without much interest or understanding. The "military front gate" presence has long gone from all such bases....a real shame.

[Fris B. Fairing]

A37535

and your museum is ...

Maybe the rest of us could learn something from your example.

[vee1-rotate]

an exceptionally beautiful musuem, and all for free (or small donation i believe). It is very peaceful down there these days, and great to have a bit of a wander around and imagine what it was like not so long ago, as a fully functioning air force base. Hats off to the museum volunteers who do a fantastic job!

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Other than the post about the renta-cops in charge of the gate, the rest is just a beat-up. PC was saved under the previous government. Gap year was previous government. This government is consolidating PC and LAV basings to PC only. Aerodrome is to be lengthened and strengthened to take the BBJ. two new hangers and the RAAF is to donate one of every aircraft into the future as aircraft come up for retirment. The Green gravel truck is the latest to be closely followed by a Pig.

Hope they keep hours available on the 'bou. Now that would be a demo to come and see once every couple of months:ok:

[VH-XXX]

It is Amber because of the restricted area NOTAM'ed at the moment and all of the military aircraft parked there at the moment for Avalon. Lucky you or your mates got in at all so I'd hardly be complaining. Surprised that they didn't notice the rubber paint on the Herc and other aircraft, it's blatantly obvious as stated earlier.

[Walrus 7]

We've all had probs with rent-a-cops at venues everywhere, not just air museums. In this case, it would appear that this one was just applying the letter of the law. Mind you, they always seem to be pretty quick with the rude remarks.

All other aspects of the first post can be taken with a grain of salt. Little money from the department to help a staff of largely volunteers work miracles down there; it is to them that we owe all we see at the RAAF museum. Similar attacks are often leveled at the ANAM at MB, again without thinking about what the team there have achieved with so damn little.

Ozbusdriver,

Are we going to celebrate your 1000th post (one to go) with a few more Kilkennys? God knows there's still a few left in the fridge!

Walrus

[Gundog01]

RAAF Museum = GOLD

A37575's post = RUBBISH

A great band of paid but mostly volunteer people work tirelessly to operate and maintain the RAAF Museum. I haven't seen a better collection of RAAF ( or any airforce) memorabilia in one place. Flying displays are great and boohoo about waiting 5 minutes to get through the front gate, it's a day the kids wont forget.

standby for a much greater RAAF presence an YMPC in the furture. If my little birdy is correct a permanent staff of 500 could be operating out of there w/in 5 years. The Air movements terminal is getting upgraded for C17 ops and some of the southern hangers have been allocated to other units. interesting times for Ms Gillard dealing with the locals.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

GunDog, thats what I heard.:ok:

Spend some time wandering around and getting people to talk and you find out all sorts of things about the place. The people are equally as important as the exhibits. Treasure! the guys doing the Mossie and when they toiled away on the Walrus, absolute gems to talk and listen to.

[Tee Emm]

an exceptionally beautiful musuem, and all for free (or small donation i believe). It is very peaceful down there these days, and great to have a bit of a wander around and imagine what it was like not so long ago, as a fully functioning air force base. Hats off to the museum volunteers who do a fantastic job

Exactly. A summary of the points made by A37575 in his opening post made no criticism at all of the museum volunteers or of the museum itself. Points made seemed perfectly fair - eg Rude security at guard gate..neglected aircraft between hangars and Mirage fighter hidden from public viewing...lack of amenities to crowds that throng at weekends (bring your own sambos and thermos)

So why the sprays?

[Sunfish]

At Point Cook in my dreams, I see a vastly larger RAAF museum housing an example, or a copy, of every aircraft the RAAF ever flew, including G for George and that ME262.

Beside the museum is a large complex of hangars and businesses which is a world class centre for aircraft restoration, full of everything from old warbirds to Staggerwing Beachcraft and handling engines, airframes and all the other trades. They not only restore aircraft, but teach the necessary trades to those who want to learn.

Towards the water are new hangars housing hundreds of aircraft of all sorts. Point Cook Flying Club has a two story luxurious clubhouse with an upstairs deck and bar from where you can observe happenings and watch the comings and goings of the clubs sleek fleet of Fifty or so GA aircraft, ranging from Cessna Sky catchers for ab initio training to twins and big singles for the more experienced members.

The pleasant afternoon sunlight is full of the noise of aircraft engines, including the occasional deep throated radial..........


....then I wake up.

Seriously ferchrissake develop YPCK, or at least the bit on the Eastern side of the road, as an aviation industry business cluster with strong historic restoration and GA themes. The main reason the State Government should be howling to the Feds about this is jobs, jobs, jobs. However if the same people are still responsible for aviation matters at State level as before, then I'm not holding my breath. It would give us a strategic triangle YMMB, YMEN and YPCK that gives us just about perfect infrastructure.

or to put it another way, the drive from Williamstown to YMMB drives me nuts.

[Snail Dave]

I haven't been down there for some time but I hope the said Mirage out in the weather gathering moss is not the one that used to a perfect specimen sitting inside one of the display hangars for years. I spent many hours lovingly dusting and polishing that thing up religiously (along with the other stuff in those hangars) every Friday morning. Shame if it is. I felt privileged to have a posting there for a couple of years.

[Mark_pilkington]

.
The Mirage under the shade cloth is a RAAF College Parade Ground "gate Gaurdian" or display, and nothing to do with the RAAF Museum or its collection, nor is it the Mirage from the collection.

The RAAF Museum is operated and managed by paid civilian and uniformed staff from Defence, and do a wonderful job with what "we" the taxpayer give them to spend. Unfortunately the Defence budget is under constant pressure to tighten the belt, even more so in this financial crisis, and museum aircraft are not the priority over new subs, JSF's etc.

The Friends of the RAAF Museum provide a volunteer force for aircraft cleaning, and tour guiding within the museum, over and above the paid staff resourcing, and also do a wonderful job.

It is unfortunate that Point Cook has become a high security defence base again, with intended high cyclone fences and limited public access, it is not in the spirit of the outcomes sought and supposedly agreed by the last Government, nor even the Planning Strategies released by Defence itself in September 2007 which proposed public and defence precincts, shared civilian airfield use, and preservation of the heritage buildings.

Limits on photography verge on the ridiculous, a newspaper photographer was recently warned by the gate guard about taking a photo of the entry sign "outside" the base, (I was a witness to it), and after he rang someone to confirm!!!.

Public Access to the airfield, and the heritage is woeful, and the current outcome does not in mind comply at all with the announcements made by Government in September 2007.

As a taxpayer I am beginning now to question the logic of the relocation of resources back from Laverton, (an already high security base, with significant recent investment on new building infrastructure, to return those same resoruces back to Point Cook), I suspect the current Defence White Paper and Minister may now be doing the same?

I noted a State Liberal Party submission apparantly already making calls for that outcome.

Having been directly involved in the fight to save Point Cook since 1998 through the Action Group, with ongoing negotiations with the previous Federal Government through the Don Heyward Steering Committee of 2001, DFAD senate Enquiry, the Fran Bailey Trust announcement of 2004, and the RAAF proposals of 2006 and Government/Defence announcements of September 2007, it seems clear Defence is unable or unwilling to clearly articulate and implement Government policy, an acquisation made publicly recently by both the current Defence Minister, and also backed up by recent Defence Ministers from the previous Government.

The Federal Senate Inquiry into the activities of DEO at the time was quite enlightening, and that organisation under a new name as CSIG remains in control of the base through to today.

Parliament of Australia:Senate:Committees:Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee:Inquiry into the disposal of Defence properties - $PageTitle$ (http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committee/fadt_ctte/completed_inquiries/1999-02/defprop/report/c07.htm)



Mr Corey—As background to this, Point Cook has been an issue of contention politically at both state and commonwealth levels since probably before 1990. It was the focus of a study as to its future use in the Melbourne basin airfield study in 1989, and the debate has been ongoing since then as to what its future use should be. Defence is determined that its long-term requirement for Point Cook, in an operational sense, is that there is not one. We moved the flying school out of there some years back and we are in the process of relocating the operational units—the training units, the RAAF college. That has been approved by government and it will happen over the next two or three years. So the only Air Force presence, as such, will be the RAAF museum in the longer term. We have been dealing with state and commonwealth governments to develop a strategy for easing ourselves out of Point Cook for 10 years. But it has been brought into a whole range of
issues—like the National Aerospace Museum of Australia, NASMA. The previous Premier of Victoria, Premier Kennett, had some agreement to develop an option for a space museum or an aerospace museum at Point Cook, and it was going to attract half a million to a million visitors a
year. That did not happen. Premier Kennett withdrew funding from that project, so it died. A number of other options have been developed by the Air Force, principally encouraged by the RAAF museum, for future use at Point Cook. We have been attempting to come to grips with a strategy, at the political level, for 10 years—with very limited success, I might add. So the long term future of Point Cook—

CHAIR—That is an understatement. Ten years?

Mr Corey—The previous Minister for Defence said to me in 1995 or 1996, ‘This is your highest priority, Rod’. We tried, but we never got anywhere.

CHAIR—I never thought I would hear you say that before a committee of the Senate.

Mr Corey—It got to the stage where we said, ‘This is something that is getting very complicated and we’re not sure there is a way through it yet.’ But there are a lot of people who keep buying into this. The vested interests are killing us. Our solution is to put it on the market.



13 years later after the Minister's directive to the then Head of the Defence Estate (DEO) Rod Corey to make it his "Highest Priorty" and 8 years after this Senate testimony I dont think they have yet given it their highest priority or solved it correctly!

http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/senate/commttee/s4613.pdf

http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/senate/commttee/s4610.pdf


http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/senate/commttee/s4610.pdf


With an expected tightning of the Defence funding, there is now a great risk Point Cook will return to the sleepy hollow rustaway environment its been in since 1992 when its future was uncertain and there was no funding for its upkeep?

Hopefully it will survive the White Paper intact?

New Zealand recently closed their oldest base, even through it is the ongoing home of the RNZAF Museum, it will be carved up for housing, similar to the RAF Hendon base. We may have stopped the sale and bulldozing of Point Cook by DEO in the late 1990's but they are currently at great risk of achieving it through natural attrition.


An historic building damaged by winds through loss of a wall and its roof cladding over 12 months ago remains "as left" with not even tarpaulins to protect the internal structure from further weather damage.

The majority of the early and most historic buildings at Point Cook are timber and weatherboard construction, and have paint peeling to the point that there is no protection of the underlying timber, and rotted roof guttering and down pipes allowing water to directly enter the building structure.

Buildings (even historic ones) permitted to fall into disrepair become easy targets for the bureaucrats to demolish rather than preserve.

The building works urgently required today in 2009, are exactly the same ones identified in detail in the conservation heritage reports of 1992 and 1998 and not acted on by successive Defence and DEO managers at that time, despite Point Cook already being listed on the then Register of the National Estate. (RNE)

It has been subject to the new Heritage laws since 2004 with its then appointment to the Commonwealth Heritage List and reinforced with its 2007 appointment to the National Heritage List (a listing held up for over 3 years while DEO sought to knock down further buildings - Point Cook was one of the first sites to be nominated - back in January 2004!)

A more recent 2006 RAAF Heritage Council confidential report again proposed knocking down many historic buildings if the RAAF or Defence could not find uses for them, and taking photos for posterity.

Defence has made claims they didnt have a Heritage Conservation Management Plan for Point Cook (even testifying under oath into hansard) despite one being developed in 1992 by Allom Lovell, and a second appearing briefly on their own DEO website in 1998.

Today one finally exists, (as has been required by law for Point Cook since 2004!) and yet I have recently been told by Government that it remains "confidential" and apparantly unable to be made public until next year? I suspect that is so that a number of buildings can be demolished in the mean time?

- Point Cook is Australia's Most Important Aviation Heritage Site, and celebrates its Centenary in just 5 years time, hopefully it will survive intact to be there for the celebrations.

We are still in great risk of loosing much of Point Cook in my opinion, in terms of what it is today and what it could become.



regards

Mark Pilkington

[Tickle]

A few weeks ago I heard on the radio that RAAF Point Cook was having flying displays again. I have been trying to find some info about days and times, but no luck.

Does anyone know about it? Thanks.

[Sunfish]

The real estate agents tell all prospective purchasers of houses around Point Cook that the airfield "is going to be closed down in a year or so".

The property developers would love to get their hands on the base.

To me, Point Cook looks like the perfect place to build a GA industry cluster, with schools, clubs, maintenance and overhaul businesses and restoration businesses all clustered around a reinvigorated RAAF Museum.

Will it happen? I know how to do it, but I don't think the political will is there. Too much money in property development.

[Homesick-Angel]

I dont feel like the original poster was flaming the museum too much, but if your really that peeved, get off ya bum and get involved..Im sure they'd be happy to have someone go out there and wash the planes...so go do it..The place is as far as i know more than happy to have volunteers

I took my grandpa there for part of his 81st birthday celebration, and i wasnt expecting much, but it is brilliant museum, and has a collection of the highest quality and all the volunteers were helpful, and the tiger moth show was a highlight for us both.(he used to fly around in them 60+ years ago with a mate)

the door b1tch was a bit of a problem, but it is still an armed forces base, so there has to be some system...(a better one would be good.)

[A37575]

While you're at it find some decent security staff with manners and we might return some of the lost business and patronage over the past 10 years.
12-47 is offline Report Post Reply

Agree. And surely, surely, surely they could place a hot drink vending machine in the foyer of the museum. After over a decade of no refreshment amenities (thankfully the museum does have a toilet and there is a drinking water faucet) because of some sort of contract dispute that locks out tenders for a refreshment machine, the time is only 15 years overdue for one little coffee machine that would cost bugger all. The dusty bird **** covered RAAF planes in the open and the lack of a lousy coffee machine says it all - despite the fine job done by volunteers. Of course you can always bring a thermos or grab a coffee at Point Cook shopping mall on the way to the museum, but it is not a good look for overseas visitors.

[A37575]

Renovating the ex-officers quarters for use by Airline cadets might be a worthwhile excercise too.

The problem would getting the wafting aroma of curry from the rooms after the cadets had left for other countries...

[John Miller]

Maybe take a leaf out of the South African Air Force Museum's ops book. Regular museum flying days with the Vamp, C-47, Puma, Allouettes in the air last Saturday. Was great to have a cup of tea at the friendly restaurant - volunteer run and wander around the main apron and hangars.

The base is still active with a resident (and busy) helicopter and Caravan squadron despite some major defence budget cuts and ongoing attacks from property developers. The gate guards are really pleasant and it's FREE.

The trick has been to get the generals involved - at least the flying ones who love to get themselves out of the grind at HQ and their hands on some real flying machines.

[43Inches]

Not that long ago Pt Cook had some good regular displays from the Mustang, Kityhawk and occasional visit of a Spitfire as well as the Iskra and DC-3, Harvards, Moths and anything else which was airworthy in the local area, the Catalina made at least one visit for a display. Unfortunately I've not been able to catch a recent display so am unsure as to what is being flown these days. The Roullettes also made occasional appearances and rarely an F18 would do a routine (but not land). Most of the flying displays were preceded by a Q & A session with the flying pilot at the front of the museum.

The static displays are well set up in the main hangar but the museum does need more space to expand, the second hangar needs to be walk through to be able to get up close to the machines. As was stated before the outside aircraft have been coated and are protected from the elements, without this they would corrode away in no time with the location of the field.

Have to agree some sort of kiosk or food van should be allowed to trade especially when the displays are organised.

[Old Fella]

If any of those posting here remember Point Cook in the early 1960's they will recall that there was not much more than a heap of junk and a Deperdussin in one hangar forming the Historic Aircraft Flight. If my memory is anywhere near correct the place was looked after by one Corporal Airframe Fitter who lived in a little house a mile or so up the Pt Cook - Laverton road. "Harry" I think was his name. Others may have a better recollection than me. I was a Sumpie there from 1960-1963 on Winjeels and there was no Coffee & Biscuits anywhere around the base when on Guard Duty punching Bundy clocks around the field in the middle of the night. Wet winter nights with the wind whistling off the Bay as one trudged around was not the best way to spend a night. I actually thought they had done a pretty good job last time I visited about eight years ago. :ok:

[Roller Merlin]

Tickle

Interactive flying displays at the RAAF Museum have been scheduled regularly for years. They occur every Sunday, Tuesday and Thursday at 1pm. See the RAAF Museum Website for further info. Be aware that the flying displays are ceasing 17Dec 2010-17Jan 2011 over the RAAF go-slo period.RAAF Museum: Royal Australian Air Force (http://www.airforce.gov.au/raafmuseum)

If you would like to find out which aircraft is being displayed on which day - ring the Museum Shop on (03) 8348 6040 during working hours and they can tell you. The flying schedule is published a the start of each month.

Also stand by for news of a great fly-in of rag-wings early 2011!

[A37575]

Also stand by for news of a great fly-in of rag-wings early 2011!

Roller Merlin. Thanks for the info. You seem right up on this. What is the true situation why the RAAF Museum does not have a coffee machine facility for visitors seeing they get a hundred or more people visiting the museum each week-end. The RAAF run cafe near the base cinema was closed down many years ago.

[ozbiggles]

Its something the government doesn't believe in, its called cost benefit
Short answer Bring a thermos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will agree however it is disgraceful both federal and state governments can't see an opportunity to develop this site in to something that could support a coffee machine or cafe.
It is great credit to those people involved with the museum that it can do as much as it can with what is provided.

[Breathe]

Many years ago there was talk of turning the control tower into a Bed & Breakfast. What a great view of the airfield and the city skyline. A good idea that never seemed to get off the ground.

[B772]

Any improvements or changes at Point Cook over the past 6 years !

[Centaurus]

Any improvements or changes at Point Cook over the past 6 years
Yes. Big improvement and progress. You don't have to get out of your car and sign in at the guard house anymore. The man comes to your car, studies your driver's licence and waves you on. :ok:
PS. Still not allowed to take photos of the old deserted buildings. Inside the museum photos permitted. Yet you can take a joy flight and take photos from the air. All a bit over dramatic really..

[gerry111]

"Any improvements or changes at Point Cook over the past 6 years?"

A mate of mine, who flies a rather nice BE35 sought permission for us to land at PCK during that six year period. All good, as the trip was approved. (We noted the then all new concrete apron improvements to support C-130Js.) So we parked responsibly and rang for a taxi to pick us up. (Sadly, the RAAF Museum was closed at the time.) So a taxi turned up and we put our baggage aboard. Arriving at the front gate to exit, the civilian guard questioned us as to how we were there as there was no record of us entering the place..

[cattletruck]

There was a UH-1 Huey hanging from wires in the museum that really caught my attention, it looked so sad to see this workhorse strung up as a relic. I was mightily chuffed to actually see it fly during the RAAF's Point Cook bicentenary display.

The museum is unfortunately constrained by hangar space, the reasons they can't build more is a complex one. Please visit Point Cook and you won't be disappointed - and leave a reasonable donation as they really do make it go far.

I used to enjoy the Sopwith Pup and Fokker Dr 1 displays but the wowsers of political correctness saw them relocated to Canberra at our loss.

[allthecoolnamesarego]

Cattletruck,

I agree, go and visit it's pretty good.

The Fokker was relocated to the AWM because it didn't fit into the charter of the Museum, which is to collect and preserve RAAF items. As the Fokker is not a RAAF aircraft, it took up valuable space so was moved to a more appropriate museum.
The Pup still flies there regularly though.

[Glasgow_Flyer]

We have a very active flying club at YMPC now too :-)

[junior.VH-LFA]

"It is all happening here at the RAAF Museum. Solar panels are being installed on two of our hangars and work has commenced on a coffee shop at the Museum."

[kaz3g]

Unnecessary complications to fly in there with the 24 hour prior notice period requirement.

They could achieve the same result by just using notams to keep their Defence patch private when needs be.

Kaz

[cattletruck]

Kaz, I would imagine some of those magnificent flying relics just don't take too kindly to being put on hold when someone buzzes in. In fact I'm sure there is a good chance some of them succumb to the laws of gravity on their own volition at the most inconvenient time.

:ok:

[gerry111]

I totally agree with you, kaz3g. PCK sure isn't LAX!

It never was and now certainly isn't.

cattletruck, I reckon that a highly experienced GA pilot such as kaz3g would have made sure that her aircraft had sufficient fuel to seek an alternative. That's if PCK was unavailable for whatever reason. (Or simply to orbit, if the RAAF Museum aircraft had a problem.)

The 24 hour prior notice period requirement is another of those false security wanks that we once all lived very safely without.

[Derfred]

It's the same for domestic RPT... we can't use RAAF bases as alternates due to PPR. Given that RAAF bases are the only local alternates in many ports, it seriously reduces our options for a length of tarmac that can accept an aircraft.

[Squawk7700]

You'd hardly call it a RAAF "base" when the flying schools, private aircraft and clubs there have aircraft coming and going all day with no tower or permissions required to take off. It's restricted access because why...? Probably just to keep the numbers down, certainly can't be explicitly security related.

[kaz3g]

Mine is a bit of a flying relic, too! And although just an AUSTER, it saw service in Germany with the RAF.

Until just a few years ago PCK had a base commander who was always keen to have old aircraft visit. Not sure that is the case now.

Kaz

[Sunfish]

IF we had a sensible set of GA regulations in Australia, and IF we had State and Federal Government with balls and vision, this is how Point Cook would look:

- The vision is PCK to become a hub for aviation related economic activity.

- The Point Cook base would be designated a historic Aviation Precinct in perpetuity. The runways would be maintained and planning laws put in place that prevent further residential development near the precinct. Noise footprints would be set in stone to prevent residents from complaining.

- The museum would be expanded and its status as the premier military aviation museum would be set by legislation and funded accordingly.

- The museum would be funded to include operational staff and museum curators to preserve and extend. the exhibits.

- RAAF would have a legislative requirement to preserve items of aviation interest and to supply these to the museum if so requested (aircraft and spares).

- RAAF staff could be seconded to the museum if required.

- Land would be set aside on the base for lease to aviation related businesses at peppercorn rents. The intention would be to build an industry cluster of aviation related specialist businesses on site- aviation welding, covering, fabrication in fabric, wood metal, etc. etc. etc. Attract businesses from YMMB, Tyabb, Essendon, etc. Point Cook becomes the centre for GA aviation, maintenance, repair, rebuilding and restoration in Australia.

- The flying school would be expanded and funded to appeal to all sorts of pilots, not just a money making sausage machine for foreign students as it now is. There would be a multitude of training courses available.

- The flying club would be expanded to include a cafe/ restaurant and to provide hangarage at reasonable rates to GA, experimental and RA aircraft and visitors.

- the seaplane jetty would be restored and seaplane facilities rebuilt. There would be both seaplane and water ferry access to the precinct.

_ there would be weekly/ weekend programs of aviation activity year round and a constant stream of visitors, both flying and non flying.

- Melbourne - serviced by Three GA airports YPCK, YMMB and YMEN becomes the centre of GA aviation activity and attracts more and more aviation businesses (this is called hoteling's law - you always put your business next to your competitors)

....and the end product would be jobs, investment and economic growth.

[Glasgow_Flyer]

I would be amazed if anyone got PPR within 24 hours! But, it is possible - and if anyone wants to join as for a snag at the Club - please let us know!!

[Stationair8]

Strewth, Sunfish that could get people excited about aviation- we don't want that to happen in Australia!

Now lie down and take a Bex, and stop sniffing avgas.

[Al E. Vator]

Like your post Sunfish.
The slipway would be a great little base for floatplanes.
And open up the other side of the airfield for new hangars.
Remove asbestos from current buildings and re-open them as accommodation for Chinese/Foreign students attending one of the many integrated flight schools. A wonderful old pilots mess highly underutilized