Fate of the unemployed CPL holder

[a330_wingspan_love]

hi guys,
word is out that there may be as many as 6000 unemployed CPL holders in india by 2010. this is a staggering number and one cannot help but wonder about what is going to happen.
will their education go in a waste?
will all eventually get absorbed?
unfortunatly india dosent have a large enough general aviation market like north america or europe which would have been the ideal hunting ground for a newbie.so what are the options really? historically how has such a situation turned out?
some expeienced folks out there please let us know...............

[lunars]

:ugh:I thought the earlier posts by you on the subject of getting a job on right seat and also with the bare miminum could you have got work in canada,in feb and march posts and also saying you had 75K to do the training and i thought it was your passion rather than the pay and status

Are you having second thoughts on this matter then tell me I shall tell you the experience I had in India for the last 2 years in airline.

If you can take what i am going to say then only let me know it might be useful to you
Best of luck:ok:

[a330_wingspan_love]

not a chance of backing off..fullstop.but one has to look at the situation rationaly hence i started this thread........
i dont know why you keep coming up with this figure of 75K which i have never admitted to having in the first place!after enquiring for a few months now with the flight schools here a CPL/IR/ME sets u back 35-36K and an a320 rating with a reputed and recognised TRTO is another 15K which dosent add up to 75K!
all i have said is that yes i am in a position to meet the cost without running into a debt.
and ya i would love to hear about ur experience in india!
thanks.

[abhi88]

word is out that there may be as many as 6000 unemployed CPL holders in india by 2010


Why does the fcuk-ing figure change every time I look into a post like this one???

[a330_wingspan_love]

'More than 6000 unemployed pilots till 2009'-Delhi-Cities-The Times of India (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Delh/More_than_6000_unemployed_pilots_till_2009/articleshow/3330950.cms)

i am not too sure if that figure can be as high as quoted. but for sure there is a lot out there

[lunars]

This is what i know while I was In India .In the last few years the aviation has seen an unprecedented growth due to the economy boom and private airlines LCC model doing well and when the LCC model started by air Deccan they did in fact bring the fares down and made it possible for the middle class people to travel. and to a certain extent a lot of first class train travelleres also changed to the new form of travel by LCC. this combined with the growth of the call centres and every multi national moving to India setting up the bases the income went up for many indians.so in short the country saw a very good growth in economy ,standard of living ,jobs for many and wealth started to come.

suddenly now you have a big market with companies starting up with new planes airbus and boeings and embraer . these planes need pilots to fly them so they started to get expat pilots initially Capts then FOs. Now in this situation the companies have been paying good money for the Capts and FOs to come from overseas.

Also I know personally many of guys who had gone to get the licences in the 90s boom some have finished and continued in aviation and have enough expereince got in to the initial opportunities with deccan,then kingfisher,spicejet. etc etc
Now there is a profession in the past was only available to the rich and powerful is suddenly available to many young guys and girls who have a dream of becoming a pilot and with media also saying there are shortage of pilots and the future requirements would be in thousands made many wanting to pruse the career of being a pilot.

so they all went to get the licence as quick as they can. i have even heard guys finishing in 6 months and coming back with a CPL and somme with multi engine rating and some with instrument ( many different ).
Now they got to sit the Indian exams and convert the licence to Indian one which for many of my collegues and their friends have taken
more than 12 months

[lunars]

even someone i met last april 2008 in delhi he has cleared his Air reg and next month he is sitting for Air composite ( he is a very bright young student ) missed out by few %.for this friend it has taken so far almost 15 months and still he has not got his licence. ( I know there will be many like him ou there )

Just look up at the DGCA website how many new computer number has been issued every time this will tell you how many are in the pipe line and the do more research it will tell you is there are as many as 6000 CPL holders out there in India looking for jobs.

what i have seen so far in India I tend to go on estimate around 3000 to 4000 . you got to understand onething in India still only less than 4% of the population flies .so out of 1.2 billion people only less than 4 % flies so as an aviation lover i see there is future in aviation in india but i dont know how its going to change .but i am very optimistic that It will happen slowly.

like in USA canada Australia and like many other places you have general aviation. In india its very small means very small so young pilots finishing up their training has to start on the jets .

Now when you have surplus pilots airlines will be able to pick and choose .
thats where you have to see what can i do to get the best chance for the company to hire me?
look my friend I wanted to say to you that

if your passion is that you want to become a pilot then go for it.
in life things are allways not going to work as you plan but as long as you have a dream and want to get to that dream i can only say to you

dont worry about what i have said its only for understanding the history

go on and pick up that phone and book for the TIF ( trail introductory flight) with your local flying school and use both years to learn and less talk with the mouth

Good luck to you

[aditya104]

well said lunar
the airline will get choosy. survival of the fittest shall result into safer Indian skies and the competition will keep the pilots on their toes. unfortunately there will be those who get a job based on their contacts/money/and reservation for SC,ST and OBC, this will keep the pilots room colorful. I do not favour any reservation in this industry.

According to me India shall see a GA growth in the next 5 years. The amount of investment that individuals and groups are capable of in India willl enable aviation startups which will absorb some 1000 pilots in the next 4 years.

Those without the passion for flying shall change careers initially.

Lets see what happens. Meanwhile keep the comments coming.

[COCOCHANEL]

Actually I think you mean less than .0004% flies-- 4000 out of 1.2 billion. So yes in the big picture there is huge potential for GA biz in India if the economy picks up by next year and does not do an L and the reforms are in place. There are a lot of opportunities for entrepreneurs in GA if they keep their costs low and prices low and with good route planning and operation. If they are new start ups, they are probably not going to be too highly geared right away, and will not be burdened with past losses baggage that plague the airlines . They can come up with inventive sales and marketing strategies. The big question is, how willing is the DGCA to give potential GA start-ups the green light , and facilitate their growth?

[lastdon]

Hi a330,

What you can really measure is what is currently happening, and not what is going to happen. You must have seen that the current economic situation cannot be compared to any of the previous recessions.

6 months back same news agencies predicted the reverse :hmm:

America is printing $$ at will........soon you will see dollar declining, gold gaining....etc etc.........Now you might wonder how this fits in this thread........Simple deflation / lowering of inflation is and always will be the signaling of lower demand / lack of liquidity.

I can tell you one thing for sure, do NOT rely on any figures which come out of the INDIAN aviation scene. Why?? Because what you cannot measure, cannot be managed. DGCA / Ministry of CA is good for nothing. The INDIAN aviation is run by the Airlines themselves. Trust me, some good businessmen who have money (READ GOOD CREDIT......:ugh:), are relying on expertise from abroad to manage their businesses. The workforce will eventually be less of expats.......but their services will still be needed......:)

Now coming back to the quantitative analysis....... (Just put a number for each question and see for yourself)
1.) How many of the aspiring students have a degree (graduate......)?
2.) How many have the aptitude of flying..... (no offense meant here :=)
3.) How many of them will manage to keep CURRENT (ratings)?
4.) How many of the waiting lot will still have the fire burning in their belly and would not get fed up of the DGCA and red tape.

See, gone are the days when flying was a well paying job (read the testimony of Captain Sully.......:ok:) and there was respect for good airmanship. Now it is a different ball game due to geo political instability and economic distress.

GRIM picture isnt it? Well let me tell you one thing.......its not only the destination which is important.......keep the journey also worth remembering. So keep the financial cusion, and get started. Preferably go for an aptitude evaluation and a medical test.

Do the following:

DO NOT expect a job immediately after conversion in India. :}
Follow the training from an institute where the instructor is reputed. Concentrate on the learning than speeeeeed of passing ratings.
DO NOT pay upfront. Follow modular.
DO NOT go for TR........but instead get IR (Instructor Rating).
And last but not the least......BELIEVE in........YOURSELF.

oh i forgot to add.......watch the movie GURU.......("Mujhe Naa sunaee nahi deta" :=). Translation: I do not like being told a NO!!

If all the above fail......atleast you will have someone to blame other than your destiny.......ME!! :}

Times are tough......but do they last forever????? Tough men DO!!

Over and Out........

LD
(PS.....Take my post with a pinch of salt......as what people feel and believe is none of my business :oh: , just thought to add here what i personally feel :E)

[VT-ASM]

The last thing to ever rely upon is the bloody Indian media...
4 years ago the papers used to be filled with rose coloured tales about the aviation industry and now you see what the scenario is actually like...
Welcome to the real world...
The airline industry definitely seems to be in a downward spiral....But since this is cyclic (going by history) I think it will pick up soon...
Meanwhile, I guess people should be scouring for GA jobs...if any..
With regards to the figures of unemployment,
I think it will be the Darwinian theory...survival of the fittest...

[Schumi - Red Baron]

Mate just hang on there.... Indian media is known for making report rather than reporting it.... U just cannot trust those guys... And the aviation industry is bound to pick up... Already the figures are better in feb./march than december/jan... So just follow ur dreams really....:ok:

[Sky Dancer]

A330 best of luck for your aviation career.Becoming an airline pilot is not easy although many young Indians who happened to be there at the right time did have it easy for them.And what's more they have been born into the generation of aircraft which are pretty easy to fly.I have had the privilege to have flown with many of them and I must say that as it is in life , some of them are very , very good and some of them well...simply don't belong in the cockpit.The good ones will go on to become fine Captains and hopefully lead to positive changes in the industry.You too will become a Captain one day and when you do achieve your dream , you will realize that the hallmarks of a good Captain are... believing in yourself and your ability and being positive irrespective of what the people around you are saying.If you have these qualities , you will find your place eventually.I don't deny that the industry is going through bad times and this will be the case for sometime to come.And sad but true,there will be many who will never go on to make it into an airline as there simply is not that many vacancies irrespective of what people may say....once again best of luck...:ok:

[a330_wingspan_love]

after sending numerous emails to the HR departments of various indian airlines ,can u believe - not a SINGLE reply!so thanks for your help guys...... its great to have folks back home bring some first hand info and share it with us.this is such an invaluable place for people like us.

i guess i will have to think twice about the typerating then. its still quite sometime until i can have my CPL so lets see how the market shapes up by then.

[lastdon]

Hi A330,

You see the capacity has been reduced BIG time. No wonder HR will not be entertaining any new applicant.

Things are back to where they were.

Arrange Funds --> Training --> Conversion --> Instructor Rating --> Work in GA / Crop Flying etc etc --> Get a job with Turbo Prop / Regional Airline --> Move gradually towards Jet's.

Well there are many hidden ups and downs in the process above. But a very very respected CTP told me.......he also was told that it cannot be done. He said "Im GLAD i did not listen to them......:)".

I have had a chance to be on the jump seat while base training on A340. The CTP obliged upon me signing a document stating the airline will not be responsible for my death / injury. That day i just knew, this life......i have to be a PILOT (Never mind the equipment i fly.....).

I can tell you......it felt just RIGHT!! :ok:

LD

[abhi88]

Work in India or abroad


I second that!!:}:} WHat many of my comrades dont realise is that there are many countries around the world that might give you a job with a bare CPL....


fake some flying hours in between your real hours


Now I would think twice before doing that.... :ok:

[Schumi - Red Baron]

I don't think there would be many options available abroad... There are many pilots with quite a few jet hrs. looking for jobs... And also stricter visa norms wouldn't help...

fake some flying hours in between your real hours

I am not sure if you really meant that or that was Tongue-in-cheek joke... But if you really meant it then you shouldn't even be alloewd near a cockpit...
Why do u want to fake hours...:confused:

Build up your hours and then try in an airline to fly jets... Flying jets is a priviledge not a right... GA flying is not a stepping stone to airline... respect your flying (and the machine you fly) if you want to be an AVIATOR...