Instrument F/W Add-on Question

[JaredYng]

Good Day,

I apologize if I should already know this or if it's been hashed a hundred times before but I couldn't find anything on the search. I also posted this in the private flying section but I figured I'd get some rotorhead advice as well. Sorry if I shouldn't have done this.

I currently hold my private f/w license and I take my check ride for r/w on Monday. I'll be starting my Instrument training in r/w next week. This is where my question becomes complicated and probably annoying!

After I finish my instrument and comm. in r/w I'd like to go on to get my instrument add-on and commercial add-on in f/w.

Does anyone know the requirements for the f/w add-ons and whether or not I should do something in particular throughout my r/w training to help with the add-ons?

I realize that a x-ctry in f/w is <50NM and in a helicopter is <25NM so I will be making all of my r/w x-ctry's <50NM. Is there anything else I should keep in mind or do? I'd hate to find out after it's too late so I'm trying to plan in advance as much as possible. Thanks for all of your help.

My current hours that I think are relevant:

F/W X-ctry Dual: 4.9
F/W X-ctry Solo/PIC: 5.7

R/W X-ctry Dual: 5.7
R/W X-ctry Solo/PIC: 2.3

Does the x-ctry have to have the first leg over 50NM or one leg at least 50NM?

I apologize if I've left anything out and I appreciate your help.

Best Wishes,
Jared

[Stoey]

Im almost done with my RW IFR now, and i did some simulated IFR in FW, also thinking about doing the PPL, CPL and IFR FW add ons.

TorqueStripe you are wrong about not needing X/C IFR in a heli, according to 61.65 you need: 1 X/C in helicopter more than 100NM along airways, IAP at each airport, 3 kinds of approaches.

But i think it was money well spent getting some FW IFR compared to beating around in a R22 struggling to get to the published altitudes, doing approaches and back again before the need of a refuel.

[Stoey]

I'm doing the part 61 IFR training here, dont know if they are part 141 IFR training approved.

[JaredYng]

Thanks guys, I'm doing the R/W instrument first because I need the hours for instruction purposes and I don't want to delay my helicopter training. I'm trying to continue that and stay proficient in that as that's the most important to me since it's what I want to do for a career. The F/W will be for fun and maybe part time work if I feel like it.

I'm at Quantum Helicopters in Chandler, Arizona and I'm doing all my training there part 141. It shouldn't be a problem doing my F/W instrument add-on part 61 should it?

[JaredYng]

I apologize for my ignorance but I'm progressing along and I'm not sure what I need to do. I'm being told a few different things.

I have my private F/W and R/C-Helicopter.

I'm taking my Helicopter-Instrument checkride on Friday. I was thinking about starting my f/w instrument add-on but was told that I might want to wait until I have commercial helicopter done because of the xctry requirments. I'm confused.

I understand I need 50 hrs. of x-ctry for f/w instrument but that doesnt have to be in under the hood does it? I've completed a long cross country of more than 250NM but I wasn't under the hood the entire time is that ok?

Should I wait until I do my Commercial helicopter and then move forward with fixed instrument and comm addons or will i be fine starting my instrument while its fresh in my head?

Sorry if none of this makes sense, I'm braindead right now.

[helonorth]

I would do the airplane IR now. You have most of the requirements met and it will be fresh. You will need just the 15 in category. The 250 mile CC will not count unless it was in an airplane and you were under the hood (it must be "simulated or actual instrument time"). I am doing my fixed wing IR add on also and I need everyone of those 15 hours as it has been a few years and I do not keep current. Should be a breeze. No written to take, either.
Oh, the 50 CC does not need to be under the hood, but 10 needs to be in a airplane (3 you already have from the private). I see from your first post you have over 10.

[JaredYng]

So the 250NM x-try has to be "all under the hood or actual?"

The 250NM trip I took only part of it was under the hood and some actual. Doesn't count does it?

[JaredYng]

Here is my IACRA for instrument check.

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/4161/flighthours52009.jpg

[helonorth]

Did you do the helicopter long CC yet? Do the same thing over again (except in an airplane!) but increase the total distance to 250 nm. Look at 61.65(d). It's pretty self explanitory. In ONE flight you have to: under IFR (to me means
under the hood) cover a distance of 250nm along airways or ATC routing, perform an instrument approach at each airport and perform 3 different approaches. To me this means: file a plan from home airport, perform an approach, repeat using a different approach. Fly home and perform a different
approach. If it was a 2.2 hour flight, log 2.0 simulated due to take off and taxi. Done. Did you do this? Can't tell by looking at your IACRA.
As an aside, I see you already have a fair amount of night time, which is good.
You have more than I do and I have around 2400 hours. Get at least a 100 and you'll be set up for EMS later. Nobody told me and I didn't think about it!

[JaredYng]

Yeah I did the long x-ctry in a helicopter and I wasn't thinking when I asked about the f/w! I will have to redo that and and do it all under the hood. I wish I had read the regs before I did that long flight.

Ah well. Yeah I'm trying to build my night hours for EMS. I did my whole instrument training at night night so that's why it's getting up there. I plan on doing much of the f/w instrument at night and some of my r/w comm at night.

[Fltpro]

Torque:
In your reply you stated that at least one leg must be >50 NM to be x/c. Actually, that is not how the FAR reads. The FAR states:

"That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure..."

Every once in a while I see an applicant (and his CFI) who misunderstands this rule and flys an x/c that is like a "loose isosceles triangle" with a short leg from the departure point (less than 50 NM), a long center leg (more than 50 NM) and another short leg (less than 50 NM) back to home base. Even though such an x/c has a leg over 50 NM, it would be disqualifying, because it didn't involve a landing more than 50 NM from the original point of departure. Substitute 25 NM for rotorcraft only.

A pilot applicant can have 2, or as many legs as he/she wishes, but if one draws a circle of 50 NM from the point of original departure, at least one of the landings must be outside that circle, i.e., more than 50 NM from the point of original departure, regardless of how many or how long the actual legs are.
Tailwinds,
Antique Examiner

[rotorfan]

Jared

"Yeah I did the long x-ctry in a helicopter and I wasn't thinking when I asked about the f/w! I will have to redo that and and do it all under the hood. I wish I had read the regs before I did that long flight."

I don't mean this to sound like preaching (I'm certainly in no position to preach), but how can you fly to meet the requirements if you're not sure what they are? I find the regs often confusing, and I might have to read them several times to be clear on their meaning. But, the info is there if you study them. If professional flying is your goal, you can't rely on someone else to watch if you are meeting the regs, you need to know them yourself. Especially if you should be an instructor someday. Besides, with all the checkrides you'll be taking, you might just get quizzed during the oral about those regs. Having the right response helps to instill confidence in the examiner.:ok:

(Preach-mode switch --> OFF)

rf

[212man]

Rotorfan, you are not 'preaching' - you are taking the time to say, very politely, what most people reading these questions would answer somewhat more abruptly!

[JaredYng]

Believe me, I understand about the regs and knowing them. I am learning them but there are a lot as you know.

What I meant about reading the regs for my long xc was that I wish I had thought more about doing my instrument add-on when I did that long xc in an airplane. Had I thought about it more, I would have looked up the regs and flown it all under the hood.

I'm still new to all of this, I can't possibly know all the regs. Even if I look them up I'm still confused sometimes.