Hockey Sticks

[ORAC]

Secret list of banned hand luggage revealed after court challenge (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/4969384/Secret-list-of-banned-hand-luggage-revealed-after-court-challenge.html)
A secret list of items banned from hand luggage has been published following a legal challenge by a man barred from flying with a tennis racquet.

The European Commission has been forced to reveal the contents of the confidential memo to airlines outlining which everyday objects were considered a potential terrorist threat.

Security staff have used the list to stop passengers carrying skateboards, fishing roads and canoe paddles from taking them on-board – despite not being told they were banned. But yesterday, the European Union's Court of Justice said it was ridiculous to have a list which the public could not access.
Judges said the rules could not be enforced because of the "fundamental absurdity" of passengers having no way of finding out what was prohibited.

The case was brought by an Austrian tennis player, Gottfried Heinrich, after he was kicked off a plane in 2005, on his way to a tournament, for refusing to put his racquets in the luggage hold. Vienna airport security staff refused to let him board after saying tennis racquets were included on a secret EU list of items classed as a potential terrorist threat.

Sarah Ludford, a Liberal Euro-MP, who has been campaigned on the issue said: "This categorical judgment is a victory for democracy and openness, and a slap in the face of the European Commission and EU governments who thought Kafkaesque methods acceptable. The Court has now agreed with our protest that it cannot be right for 500 million EU citizens to be told to obey laws they cannot read for themselves."

Following the court case, the Commission published the list of 11 items banned from passenger aircraft cabins. It revealed sports and leisure equipment such as skateboards and lacrosse sticks were specifically banned as they were considered "blunt instruments capable of causing injury".

But there was a further kick in the teeth for Mr Heinrich, as it emerged tennis racquets did not even appear on the list and he may have been barred from flying due to an overzealous interpretation of the rules.

Nevertheless, a BAA spokesman warned passengers not attempt boarding an aircraft with racquets in hand. "Our view is that tennis racquets will clearly contravene the Department for Transport hand baggage size regulations, and therefore we'd definitely recommend to passengers that these are placed in their hold luggage. Even if they were smaller than that, it's worth noting that the regulations prohibit "sporting bats, cues and darts" from being taken aboard."

EU banned list:

baseball bats
clubs or batons
cricket bats
golf clubs
hockey sticks
lacrosse sticks
kayak and canoe paddles
skateboards
snooker cues
fishing rods
martial arts equipment

[TRC]

....contravene the Department for Transport hand baggage size regulations...


Have you ever travelled on the same flight as a brass band?

Gives a whole new meaning to "Instrument Flying".

The overhead lockers were full - AND - empty seats had tubas, etc. strapped in them!

[Keygrip]

I live in America now, so don't play snooker any more, can I take a pool cue?

[Airbubba]

I live in America now, so don't play snooker any more, can I take a pool cue?

Not as a carry-on, you can check it, see:

TSA: Prohibited Items (http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/prohibited/permitted-prohibited-items.shtm#5)

[barit1]

No sax or violins, please (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4784225.stm) :O

[AES]

How about Harps & Double Basses? And then, only slightly smaller on the scale, there's Violas!

Really ...........

AES

[acebaxter]

A Bic Pen planted firmly in the eye socket should do the trick. Then of course we would be doing the tech logs with crayons.

[carousel]

The prohibited items list is clearly linked on DfT website, plus airline websites with lists and links. Ryanairs list headed Blunt Instruments; any blunt instrument capable of causing injury. First item on the list "tennis rackets"

[Latearrival]

So glad to hear that tennis racquets are banned. Feel much safer now! But what about all the other dangers we're still subjected to? On my last flight I was sitting next to a woman with high heels, a potential weapon for sure. She also had earrings that could have gouged my eyes out and a ring the size of a coffee mug. Shoes and jewelry should be banned from all flights. And what about those who don't need weapons—the black belts among us. I think all SLF should be screened for that sort of thing and the guilty should be banned from flying until they agree to amputation of a limb or two.

[woodpecker]

Dear old Bournemouth, they refused my wife's make-up as it was in the wrong sized clear plastic bag, even though the bag had been issued at Heathrow a couple of weeks earlier.

But they did allow through some chap covered in tattoos and studs, one which was about two inches long, as sharp as you like and protruding from his lower lip...

The world's gone barmy.

(35 years on the "inside", loving being on the "outside" looking in.)

[grizzled]

"blunt instruments capable of causing injury"
Hmmm . . . that would seem to include most Aeroflot flight attendants.

[RoyHudd]

Surprised Ryanair omitted hurling sticks from their little list. Where's their sense of nationality?

(Hurleys are dangerous implements even when employed legally! Tough old sport, hurling, almost as hard as mens' lacrosse) :E

[llondel]

It's about time they banned duty-free bottles then, especially glass ones. Even plastic ones when full could be considered a blunt instrument.

But of course that would upset the shopping mall operators, so we can't have that.

[Riccardo]

A Bic Pen planted firmly in the eye socket should do the trick. Then of course we would be doing the tech logs with crayons.

Some of you guys already do I think........;)

[ScudRunner08]

hockey sticks
lacrosse sticks
kayak and canoe paddles

This is Racial Profiling against Canadians, I'm Going to demand a human rights tribunal into this oppression of Canadians.

How's a guy suppose to get to his Hockey or Lacrosse game without his Canoe paddle?

[singpilot]

Right after 9/11, being CP on one of the not so major carriers, I was asked into one of those stupid 'task force management sessions' with all the pencil pushers and mucky-mucks for a 'run-thru' on 'what else we haven't thought of....'

BicPens were mentioned. After several hours of cow dung blurbs, I got the floor and said how we were approaching the problem from the wrong direction.

I said that we should be the first "All Armed Airline". Every passenger will be issued a 10" Bowie knife, Business Class would get a nickel plated one with a serrated edge, and First Class should get ones with their names engraved. The galleys would be enclosed in Lexan, with a slot to pass snacks and drinks, and the F/A's would be behind the barrier for the duration.

Since the cockpit doors had been 'strengthened' and we were now officially to ignore pleas from the F/A's (sacrificing them), we would do much better having every passenger armed. The briefing would include the instructions that the Pax 'work it out themselves' if something bad was happening.

Kinda like the old joke about the two guys who are camping and a huge bear comes into camp and is going to eat them, one camper stops to put his running shoes on, and says 'All I have to be is faster than you....' to his mate.

All we wanted to do, I said, is make the bad guys go to someone else's airline.....

The room was silent for a full minute.

They never asked me back to another of those stupid meetings.

[FE Hoppy]

"what about a pointed stick"

Mr Tinned Peach of Cardiff

[pppants]

Your are all missing the "point". There is a simple answer to this problem, everyone flying has be in their birthday suit. No carry on items ergo no need for a security check as all can be seen at check in. I bet there would be no trouble on the flights.




:eek::E;)

[skydiver69]

Some airport security staff and airlines won't let skydiving parachutes on as hand luggage because the 'strings' could be used to strangle people. Luckily for me last time I travelled with my gear no one noticed that my shoes had laces and that I wore a belt otherwise these would have been put in the hold as well :ooh:

[Just wondering]

Let's insist on checking in laces, belts, pens etc - individualy

[skyloone]

... but surly this is a problem that can be solved by a new type of home office ID card that allows the holder to carry sporting goods, wear a belt, shoes and while we're at it matches too. Should create a few jobs and manage to p*ss off a plenty of hard working tax payers. No wait.. please sir wait... we could add this detail to the biometric data on ones passport.... actually don't bother sir, just catch the train...:}.. oh no... but thats where the last trouble was, the bus then.... oh no...

Me thinks that Bin Laden and his buddies are winning this one hands down thanks to the lunatics we have running the show!

PS. my humble apologies if I've offended any, planes, trains or buses, their staff, parents, siblings, dogs and cats or god forbid a civil servant or two. Oops now back to the PROG page... where am I. Oh dear.. sitting up the pointy end.:ooh:

[alwayzinit]

Empty "thermos"type coffee mugs must go too as they are of a greater volume than 100mls.....................

Well according to GLA security anyway, I asked if he wanted my boots too:ugh:

Just a thought , has anyone actually tried to get a kayak onboard as hand luggage?

Alwayz

[llondel]

Empty "thermos"type coffee mugs must go too as they are of a greater volume than 100mls.....................

Well according to GLA security anyway, I asked if he wanted my boots too:ugh:

I've blatantly taken empty water bottles through security before now, the regs are obviously different at GLA. Even the time when I was pre-selected for extra security, the security team didn't object to the empty bottle.

My understanding is that it's the presence of the liquid that's important, not the container, given that it's trivial to go buy a new container once airside.

[Propellerhead]

How is a tennis raquet a bat? What are you going to do with it? Hit someone with it? Oh no, that would really hurt :ooh::ooh:! I've taken one through before no problem. Obviously another example of inconsistant rules.

[The Real Slim Shady]

In the TSA list under Tools it states that it is OK to take, as carry on, a screwdriver, up to 7 inches!

Opportunity for some real terrorism there:

"Get back, or I'll dismantle the plane!"

[Gary Brown]

Rather to my surprise, a couple of years ago at a very wet CDG I went through check-in, general security and gate security unmolested with a large, pointy golf umbrella. I stowed it overhead in the Air France cabin. On **disembarking** at JFK, the AF cabin crew tried to take it off me as I exited the aircraft, saying it was "outrageously illegal" that I had brought such a dangerous object on board.

Go figure. Maybe they didn't like the look of the weather in New York that week-end....

AGB

[Geezers of Nazareth]

It never ceases to amaze me with the number of different things that are now banned when going through 'security' to get airside.

I regularly take a pot of yoghurt with me in my lunch-box, and it's only been taken from me perhaps 2-3 times in the past 3 years. On one occasion I was told that I could not take through a small bottle of water, so the following day I froze it until it was solid, and took that. When they questioned me about it, I pointed out that it was not a liquid, and got away with it.

We can't take a can of soup/rice-pud/custard/beans/etc, but if we empty the contents into a tupperware container, then that's okay.
So that means that it must be the tin that is the offensive weapon, rather than the contents! :hmm:


Regarding 'sporting goods' ... a few days ago I saw somebody trying to take through a full set of balls for a pool table. This wasn't a passenger, it was somebody who worked at the airport. He was told that it was a dangerous weapon ... he might put it in a sock and hit somebody!
So ... my foot is inside a sock, and I might kick you. That makes it a dangerous weapon, are you going to cyt my foot off each time I go to work?

In the past few days we've had to remove our belts, and now we have to remove our watches. However, at another nearby check-point, we don't have to! Can you guess which check-point I go to now?

[Re-Heat]

Anyone seen the Bourne Identity...?!

[Re-Heat]

On one occasion I was told that I could not take through a small bottle of water, so the following day I froze it until it was solid, and took that. When they questioned me about it, I pointed out that it was not a liquid, and got away with it.
This is just genius. Full marks.

[RevMan2]

I froze it until it was solid, and took that. When they questioned me about it, I pointed out that it was not a liquid, and got away with it.

Someone (successfully) worked this scam in Germany, garnering export subsidies for dairy solids which were higher than for dairy products in liquid form.

Froze the milk, trundled across the border to the Czech Republic (probably Czechoslovakia back then) and let it thaw.

Went on for yonks until they changed the law...

[Skipness One Echo]

A single snooker ball in a sock *WILL* knock you out. I've seen it (and heard it) happen and it is not a pretty site. In my view that's a sensible measure.

[Geezers of Nazareth]

Quote:
On one occasion I was told that I could not take through a small bottle of water, so the following day I froze it until it was solid, and took that. When they questioned me about it, I pointed out that it was not a liquid, and got away with it.
This is just genius. Full marks.


Thanks, I do my best! :ok:

I have also 'got away with ...' a creme-caramel (as it's not a liquid), a trifle (also not a liquid), a full roast-dinner including gravy (I told them they were welcome to the gravy, but they had to 'extract' it from the meal), a fruit jelly, and a rice-pudding.

To be honest, once I've managed to get these things through, I'm generally not bothered any more. It's almost like a challenge, and I lose interest in it quite quickly once it's no longer a challenge.


Going back to the original point ...

A single snooker ball in a sock *WILL* knock you out. I've seen it (and heard it) happen and it is not a pretty site. In my view that's a sensible measure.

I agree, and I certainly wouldn't want to be on the receiving end. But the bloke had a whole box of them, not just one. They obviously have a pool table in their crew room, so all the BAA people had to do was make a simple phone-call.

[CJ Driver]

I think that Skipness One Echo is missing the point. We all agree that a snooker ball in a sock is a potential weapon. But so is ALMOST EVERYTHING ELSE YOU CAN CARRY ON BOARD. The problem is that someone in a distant room actually thinks they can "solve" the problem by making lists of things not to take on board. We need to tell them that there is not enough time in the world to write down all the common objects that might be used to harm another person given enough ingenuity.

To paraphrase the IRA comment about getting lucky, whilst the bloke writing the list has to hope they have thought of everything, the terrorist only has to find ONE thing that is a useful weapon but is NOT on the list.

I suspect the security policy should concentrate on materials of use to suicide bombers, and forget about anti-personnel weapons, since as someone pointed out earlier, the current hijack philosophy makes it impossible to take over an aircraft by threatening passengers or crew in the cabin anyway, so no sensible terrorist is likely to try.

[racedo]

Your are all missing the "point". There is a simple answer to this problem, everyone flying has be in their birthday suit.

Thats all very fine BUT some people carry Weapons of Mass Reproduction with them and think of the Paternity suits.:hmm:

[Pax Vobiscum]

the terrorist only has to find ONE thing that is a useful weapon but is NOT on the list
Quite so, CJ Driver - in fact it's even worse than that. As no less a security guru than Bruce Schneier (http://www.schneier.com) has pointed out, there's no penalty (other than confiscation) for attempting to carry on board an item on the 'forbidden' list. So a bad person who has thought of a method of bringing down an aircraft with (e.g.) 150ml of apparently innocuous liquid can simply carry on making repeated attempts to get through the system. As the system can never achieve 100% effectiveness, he will eventually succeed. (We'll gloss over the point that two bad people could carry through 75ml each with no difficulty whatsoever.)

[radeng]

300mL in a medicine bottle with a suitable prescription label will get you through. You can be asked to taste it: this leads to problems, because when the dose is 5ml, and it's dangerous to exceed the dose (e.g some diuretics have side effects of leading to reduced blood pressure and you can pass out - really safe on an escalator at T5), enough to taste as a demonstration can be too much. Some medicines don't come in under 100ml sizes.

Then there's insulin. and the syringe for it, and asthma inhalers - one can go on and on. Note that walking sticks ARE allowed - apparently even by ryanair.

Belts attached to trousers can cause problems. Having lost 14kg since January, and more coming off, if my belt isn't sewn on the trousers at the back, they hang on the belt loops and become very uncomfortable.....

There's a very apt term in French to describe the situation:

'c'est un grand bordel'