Which order should modular training go in?

[Tommm]

Hi all,

I have tried to search for this but found nothing. I am just curious whether there is a specific order in which modular training must be carried out in? From What I have managed to understand you need to do the following:

PPL
(ATPLs?)
Hour Building
CPL
ME
IR

Is this a set order or can certain licenses/ratings be done before each other?

EDIT: is there anything missing from these too?

[RTN11]

It can be done in several orders.

Some people do their IR before the CPL, which is fine.

I'm planning CPL before IR, because if I get to the end of my CPL and the job market is still pants, at least I have a commercial licence to earn money from, rather than just a PPL-ME-IR which is worth nothing.

You can slot the ME in anywhere, as long as it's before the IR, and you can do the CPL in a multi and include it in one test.

[Obs cop]

A couple of bits you missed out are the MCC course which needs to be completed after everything else and the night rating.

You can combine the night rating as part of the PPL if your training provider agrees, likewise tou can do a 28 hour CPL with a multi engine rating included instead of the 25 hour single engine and then a sperate MEP.

In short the order is flexible but the rules which cause the problems are hours/qualification limits for entry to courses or for licence issues.

For example,

Cannot start ATPL ground exams unless you have a valid ICAO PPL.
Cannot start CPL course until you have 150 hours total time.
Cannot start ME CPL or ME rating unless you have 70 hours P1.

Must have 200 hours total including 100 hours P1, 10 hours instrument instruction, 20 hours cross country navigation for CPL licence issue.

Regards,
Obs

[Tom Power]

Just a quick question about the night rating.
Dont you not get night rating as part of your IR?

[Halfbaked_Boy]

Tom Power,

As far as I'm aware (and I stand to be corrected), an IR includes the privileges of being able to fly at night (as night flying is considered IFR), but I am led to 'believe' that you still require a night qualification to gain your CPL. My reasoning behind this is theoretically you could have your fATPL without ever having flown at night if you could simply take your IR, then move onto the CPL, which of course would be impractical.

Anybody else know anything about this?

[flightlevel1985]

No, you will need to complete the night rating in order to apply for the CPL. So if you are doing the CPL first then the IR, you can not get the dispensation on the IR as technically you can not apply for the CPL.

[Halfbaked_Boy]

Thanks Mark, I thought that may have been the case :ok:

[Linda Mollison]

In addition, you must have a night rating before you start an IR course so, if you are doing the IR first you need to be aware of this.

Linda

[RTN11]

Not sure where you're getting the 70 hours PIC requirement from to commence CPL.

Quote from LASORS:


Training Requirements
The holder of a PPL(A) issued in accordance with ICAO
Annex 1 (excluding the NPPL) with at least 150 hours
flight time as a pilot, may commence an approved JAR
CPL(A) Modular Course consisting of 25 hours dual flight
instruction including 10 hours of instrument instruction
(up to 5 hours may be instrument ground time in a BITD
or a FNPT I or II or a flight simulator). At least 5 hours
of the flight instruction shall be carried out in a complex
aeroplane (certificated for the carriage of at least four
persons and have a variable pitch propeller and retractable
landing gear).


Only mentions needing 150 hours total time to start the course, and 100 hours PIC for licence issue.

Also note:


An applicant who does not already hold a Night
Qualification/Rating (Aeroplane) shall be given
additionally at least 5 hours night flight instruction.

[Obs cop]

Sorry to clarify,

Cannot start ATPL ground exams unless you have a valid ICAO PPL.
Cannot start CPL course until you have 150 hours total time.
Cannot start ME CPL or ME rating unless you have 70 hours P1.

Where I make reference to the 70 hrs P1, I am refering to starting a Multi Engine class rating course or a 28 hour Multi Engine CPL course.

Sorry for any confusion.

Obs

[jamie230985]

Cannot start ME CPL or ME rating unless you have 70 hours P1.


Not correct, you can do an MEP whenever you wish (I did mine on about 40 P1)

To start CPL you need the following;
1) 150 hrs total
2) 70 hrs P1
3) 300NM X-country qualifier landing at 2 away airports not previously visited
4) Night qualification

[SW1]

From Lasors:

An applicant for a JAR-FCL CPL(A) must have completed
a minimum of 200 hours of flight time


i.
100 hours as Pilot-in-Command, or 70 hours as
Pilot-in-Command if completed during a course
of integrated flying training;
ii.

20 hours of VFR cross-country flight time as
Pilot-in-Command, including a cross-country
Flight* totalling at least 540 km (300 nm) in
the course of which full-stop landings at two
aerodromes different from the aerodromes of
departure shall be made.

An applicant for a class rating for a single-pilot MEP
(Land) aeroplane rating must produce evidence of having
completed a minimum of 70 hours as pilot-in-command
of aeroplanes.

Dont know where you got the "Not previously visited" from?

[Tommm]

Thanks for the replies guys :)

So i missed out the MCC and the night rating, I didnt know the MCC was compulsory :eek: Even more monies in that case!

[Halfbaked_Boy]

I didnt know the MCC was compulsory

It's not.

But 99.9% of airlines and multi-pilot operations require it, so for all intents and purposes... :ok:

Cheers, Jack

[flightlevel1985]

Its only compulsory for any jobs in a multi crew environment. Single pilot jobs will not require it. So it all depends on what kind of flying you are going to be involved with.

[Halfbaked_Boy]

Mark,

Could you clarify for me - is it mandatory for all multi pilot ops, or is it discretionary for the particular operator?

Cheers

[Tommm]

That is as good as making it compulsory, since most, if not all, jobs require some sort of multi-crew flying at some time (from what i have gathered)

[flightlevel1985]

I do not know how to copy and paste out of an adobe file, but if you look at lasors, section F10, it says that it is a prerequisite condition for adding an initial multi pilot aircraft rating to you licence. So yes it seems like it is mandatory to be able to get an MPA IR. But I have heard of some operators who like you to do their own MCC, so look into who you want to apply for and then work out where to do it.

[Halfbaked_Boy]

Tommm,

I agree - I think that if you plan on flying as a member of a multi-crew at any point in your lifetime, get the MCC if it's financially viable for you.

Possibly not the cold hard law, but common sense would dictate that to me at least!

edit - thanks for pointing me in that direction Mark, shall have a read up now :ok:

[flightlevel1985]

Tommm, there are plenty of avenues to explore which do not involve multi crew flying. Admittadly, JAR OPS requires 700 hours for single pilot charter flights, but even so there are a couple of companies who have an excemption down to 400 hours. Other single pilot jobs which offer pay include things such as aerial photography, parachute dropping and also if you are lucky enough to know any wealthy people who want to be ferried around

..........

No problems Halfbaked boy :ok:

[White Otter]

Isn't it also possible to do the CPL and IR in single engine aircraft and then convert them to ME afterwards (so as to save on money)?

[Obs cop]

Jamie230985,

Sorry don't wish to be too pedantic but heres the direct quote from LASORS concerning MEP rating,

F3.1 INTRODUCTION
To fly as pilot-in-command (PIC) of an aeroplane in the
MEP (Land) Class you must have a MEP (Land) Class
Rating endorsed onto your licence.
F3.2 REQUIREMENTS FOR THE ADDITION
OF AN MEP (LAND) CLASS RATING
An applicant for a class rating for a single-pilot MEP
(Land) aeroplane rating must produce evidence of having
completed a minimum of 70 hours as pilot-in-command
of aeroplanes.

I am led to believe by the training establishment where I am doing my CPL, that these figures apply if the MEP is being gained as part of a 28 hour multi engine CPL. It makes sense as I will be gaining an MEP rating when my CPL is issued and the entire course is dual, so I need the 70 hours before starting the course.

Obs cop

[Obs cop]

Markynulty,

If you're asking me then nope, sorry,

Obs

[thatscaptaintou]

I've done my stuff so far in the following order:

PPL
ATPL theory
Hour building
Night Rating

Coming up...

ME
IR
CPL (reduced due to IR)
MCC/JOC

The CPL is reduced because I think you don't need to do the 10 hours instrument flying