English Language Proficiency

[2close]

The JAA CPL is issued for 5 years.

However, prior to CPL issue you have to prove that your level of English is up to a minimum of ICAO Level 4 Operational.

If you have trained in the UK for a UK issued licence it is ASSUMED you meet Level 4 requirements and your licence is endorsed with English Language Proficiency. However, that Level 4 is only valid for 3 years at which point your licence becomes (technically) invalid unless you have taken a further English test (although I fail to see how licences could be rendered invalid in practice as the CAA does not appear to have any follow up process).

Non native English speaking persons applying for CPL (or PPL) outside the UK and Ireland are required to undergo a Test of Aviation English (there are several available) to ensure a minimum Level 4 competence.

ICAO Level 5 is valid for 5 years (as per the CPL) and ICAO Level 6 is valid for life.

Levels 1 - 3 indicate failure and require retesting before a certificate of competence can be issued. The retesting should normally take place after 3 months, although I know of one test centre failing someone one week then passing them the next (and charging them for 2 x tests) - how someone's standard of English can improve that much in one week is quite staggering and I can assure you that the person's English had NOT improved at all.

Some JAA / EASA member states now require the test to be passed and the results submitted to the authority before a licence will be issued and they do intend to send reminders to those only holding Level 4. prior to the 3 year expiry date.

In the USA the FAA has also determined that anyone having trained and tested in the USA meets ICAO Level 4 proficiency and has their licence endorsed 'English Language Proficient'. If you have a stand-alone FAA licence without such an endorsement you can obtain an endorsed replacement by registering on the FAA website and paying $2 for the replacement - mine took approx 5 days to arrive in the UK from the USA. However, if you have a 'piggy-back' licence issued on the basis of a foreign licence you can only obtain a replacement by personal visit to a FSDO, which must be arranged in advance. I have read that FAA licences not endorsed by 5th March 2009 are rendered invalid from this date!!

I would be very interested to hear your experiences in this area.

Thanks.

2close

[Keygrip]

I would be very interested to hear your experiences in this area.


Why?

You haven't actually asked a question. You've typed out a whole load of information that has been around for ages, and done to death with regards to FAA "piggy back" licences and a FSDO visit.....what's your point here?

[selfin]

Not so quick Keygrip. Some of us linger in the dark ages information-wise. The matter of the foreign-based US private certificate requiring a FSDO visit for endorsement of "English Proficient" only came to my attention two weeks ago.

It is not unforeseeable that UK-granted JAR-FCL licence holders in receiving an automatic endorsement would assume the same routine exists under FAA policy. Many people with whom I've spoken have argued that as their US-certificate is foreign-based, their primary licence having the endorsement is good enough, and were nevertheless ignorant of the fact that a visit to a FSDO would be required.

Can't blame the fellow for making assurance double sure.

[2close]

Thank you for your support Selfin, however, I will address Keygrip's question.

NAA's are issuing licences for 5 years with a 'hidden' validity of 3 years where the holder is only proficient to ICAO Level 4.

Furthermore, the UK CAA is issuing licences with an ASSUMED Level 4 proficiency on the simple basis that the person trained in the UK and that he has been assessed by his flight examiner, who is probably unqualified - in a regulatory sense -to make an assessment of the person's level of English, but who has been given an unqualified authorisation by the CAA to assess to Level 4.

On top of that, they have not, to my knowledge, made any statement regarding licence validity at the expiration of validity of the Level 4 proficiency or what is required of the licence holder at that time. Does he have to revalidate his proficiency by way of re-assessment as per the rules that have been agreed and if so where and at whose expense? Or will the CAA re-issue the licence at that point with another 3 years Level 4 English language validity, again on the basis that it is a UK licence? Again, at whose expense?

So, what is the score? PPL/CPL issue 2008; Language re-issue 2011; Licence re-issue 2013; Language re-issue 2014, Language re-issue 2017; Licence re-issue 2018; and so on, ad infinitum. More expense being placed upon the licence holder.

Why not just make it a requirement for ALL licence applicants to be formally assessed, irrespective of State of Licence Issue? Virtually all native English speakers are going to be assessed at Level 6, although it is possible that some regional accents could result in a Level 5.

The English Language for Aviation Assessor practical examination is one of the most difficult examinations I have ever undertaken and has a relatively high failure rate - I passed on the resit like most of my compatriots at the course - and I find it ridiculous that a person can be given a right to assess on the pure basis that he or she is a flight examiner. I have come across some examiners in the UK whose own standard of English is questionable and one of whom I could hardly understand over the RT.

I have also been told to my face by some people yhat they come to the UK to get their licences for the purpose of avoiding the Aviation English test. Their English was up to standard but they just did not want the added stress of another test which they were worried they may fail.

Similarly, I know for a fact that testing standards in some countries are quite slack and I have personally come across people who have been passed in those countries by 'friendly' assessors when they can hardly speak a word of English, certainly could not hold a conversation and most definitely could not handle an emergency situation.

So I feel there is a point for discussion and I have a genuine interest in what is going on. This is a new requirement which has taken over 30 years from conception to delivery but as is nearly always the case it is quite seriously flawed.

The FAA information, although I appreciate it may have been previously published was merely for the information of those who may not be aware, as not everyone spends every waking moment on PPRuNe or other aviation forums. Ignorance is no defence when the wheel comes off so there is no harm in reinforcing knowledge.

I hope this addresses the question.

2close

[Keygrip]

Absolutely!

[oshkosh99]

Sorry, just came across that thread.

I have a 5 year old plastic US PPL copy (original US PPL dates back to 1982) with IFR and SES, current BFR, but without any mentioning of language proficiency.

If I now send in the 2$ and have a replacement certificate issued with the English language proficiency mentioned on the certificate, how long will this be valid? Also only a couple of years like abroad or for life? I haven't heard of anyone having to take an English test in the US yet, so I guess this will be valid for as long as my US PPL is valid, i.e. life. Or maybe I have to send in 2bucks every 4 years to get a new copy, still not too bad compared to the following.

So then here my second question:
As I live part time back in my old home in Germany I also have a German PPL acquired independently (not based on the US PPL) back in 1982 and kept current until now. For that licence to allow me to fly in Europe and talking English on the radio after Dec 2010, I now would have to take one of those stupid English language proficiency tests in Germany, costing a lot and being a hassle. Level 6 they only offer in some cities far away from my home, and level 5 costs so much you can do 4 times a level 4 and still be cheaper. For info I have been quoted almost 400€ for the level 5 test and almost 100€ for level 4.

So with the language profiency according to level 4 confirmed on my US PPL would this not be sufficient, as long as I carry both licences with me when flying a German registered plane in Europe??
Or would it be like the medical where I do have to have a German medical in addition to the US medical in order to operate under the rules of the German PPL?

Thanks for answering!