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mr_rodge
22nd Feb 2009, 13:30
Hi there,
I was having a browse around and thought I'd post a query regarding schemes such as CTC Wings Cadets or the CityJet Wings programmes. Firstly, what is the difference between these two programmes?
Next - What are my chances i.e. options for getting into the industry? I'd like to be a commercial airline pilot as I have wanted to for a number of years and to put it simply, I ended up in the wrong career. I am a quantity surveyor of 3 and a half years (I'm 21 years old), currently studying towards a Bsc in the subject and have passed my HNC in Building Studies. At sixth form I only gained two A-Levels, a C in General Studies and a D in Computing. I have an AS at grade E in mathematics. Granted, this sounds like a healthy career with great prospects, a fully expensed company car and a half decent wage, however I've never been all that happy in the job. There's been many a time where I've sat and stared out of the window wondering if I'd be wasting my time going for the full-blown career change. I'd like to know if I've got any chance whatsoever of getting on a training scheme, and if not, what would I have to do to gain as much of a chance as everyone else applying? Would it be worth leaving my job at this point in time (As the construction industry isn't exactly flourishing at the moment) and taking up full-time study including my A-levels and upwards to a degree in Aviation? Or would it be worth sticking with my Bsc in Quantity Surveying (I have 4 years left, I'm on the first year but it is a requirement for my job so there's no scope for changing my course whilst still working) and possibly taking up a part-time A-Level maths again to boost my qualifications before applying? I don't care much for Quantity Surveying as I believe it is a posh term for con-man and I'm fed up of the dishonesty and mind-numbingly boring work. And if anyone is currently studying A-Levels, MAKE A GOOD JOB OF THEM!! DON'T END UP IN MY POSITION!!

Oh, and on a further note, is the RAF a viable option?

Thanks for your time.

Hezza
22nd Feb 2009, 14:54
Hi Mr.Rodge,

I don't post a lot, but i had to with this one as I was reading your post and wondering if we were long lost brothers or something! My story so far:

I have been working as a Building Surveyor for 4 1/2 years, i am 22 years old and studying toward a Bsc in Building Surveying (2 1/2 years left). I got onto the course, after passing a Diploma in the subject, following my appalling A-Level results (C,D with an E at AS) - sound familiar yet?

Anyway, i too decided about 8 months ago that i would aim for a career as a pilot, and originally looked into the CTC scheme - but decided against it. The airline industry is at least doing as badly, if not worse than the construction industry so please don't use that as a reason to swap careers!!!

In order to complete my training, and obtain an ATPL i have budgeted myself tightly, and set a realistic timescale of completion by summer 2012. This is following a modular route of training, rather than an expensive intergrated scheme (you will find lots more about the two forms of training using the search function). I understand the reason behind an intergrated route, but I personally am simply not prepared to take the risks involved (leaving work, paying out £70k~) without any form of security at the end of it all!

I wouldn't bother going back to A-Levels, and also wouldn't bother looking at a Aviation related degree - especially as you have already started your current one. An aviation related degree may give a small advantage to candidates, but its pretty specific to this one industry - and i would certainly say its good to have your eggs in more than one basket!

At the moment i am working Monday - Friday, studying for my Bsc in the evenings & weekends, and flying at weekends too (and ocassionally seeing my girlfriend:O)! It certainly keeps you busy, but it is possible with careful time planning. The plan for me is to have most of the hours required by the time i have finished my degree, and then study for the ATPL exams either full time, or part time - depending on the state of the economy. After that I have the remaining hours to build, ME/CPL/IR ratings. This way i have my degree in construction as a back-up, along with my job if i want it, and (hopefully) very little/no debt to boot.

So my recommendation to you -
Keep doing what you doing (degree included) and try to enjoy it, we all have bad days.
Do some additional research into types of training, flying schools in the area
Be prepared to have no social life for the next few years ;)
Plan yourself very carefully, and work hard at it!
Save as much money as you canYou can PM me if you want to know anything else...

Enjoy :)

P.S - i have just got back from a little flying expedition up to Nottingham, and am about to sit down to the latest report i have to write for my Bsc :ok:

mr_rodge
22nd Feb 2009, 16:28
Hi Hezza,

Wow, you weren't kidding when you were talking about familiar! The only problem I see with modular training is that I don't have 50k lying around! I think with a few months' saving I could just about manage the PPL. The problem is that my job isn't exactly safe at the moment and the measley 15k I'm on isn't really enough.

Thanks for the reply, though. I didn't expect to get one that quickly!

Hezza
22nd Feb 2009, 16:45
So where did you suppose you would get the £70-£80k for a CTC wings course?

...HSBC have stopped the loan agreement for CTC now i believe (i'm sure someone else can confirm this), so you now need to fund that course yourself too!

Unless you go RAF, it doesn't seem there is much in the way of sponsorship...:sad:

mr_rodge
22nd Feb 2009, 20:49
Aaaaah right... I guess I missed the obvious there. Never occurred to me. Looks like I've got some serious saving and some major research to do. Could anyone point me in the right direction on where to start with modular training? Is the PPL the first port of call? Any help would be greatly appreciated! (Any gambling tips or lottery scams would also be helpful, JOKE!)

As you've probably gathered, I'm full of regret from my full time education days and I'm prepared to stop at nothing to get into my dream career.

smith
22nd Feb 2009, 21:12
I'm prepared to stop at nothing to get into my dream career.

I admire your optimism but I have to ask whether you have been living in a cave for the past 6 months or not? Remember once you have your fATPL CPL/IR you are talking about another £25-30K for the type rating, and in today's climate that's the only way you will be able to buy yourself into the RHS for a good few years to come, and only expect to work a summer contract at that if you are lucky enough to buy your way in.

Once we come through the recession/downturn all the other airlines will too realise that they can get away with using eager self paying cadet FO's to cut costs/line their pockets and it will be the norm for all new "hires".

I am not trying to rain on your parade or discourage you from following the wannabe dream here mate, I am just trying to make you aware of some of the financial pitfalls along the way which you seem glaringly unaware of from your posts.

Good luck mate, your gonna need it.:ugh:

Mikehotel152
23rd Feb 2009, 07:29
Mr Rodger, I think Hezza's advice is very sound.

On the issue of costs generally and the sting in the tail that is forking out for a Type-Rating, you have to look very closely at how you will pay for each part of the training. Spending an accumulative total of £40-50k on modular training, together with living costs, and then finding you need to obtain another £25k for a TR might be the straw the breaks your flying camel's back. Not many people can walk into their bank and get that kind of money by way of a personal loan!

The only other options you'll have at the end of your training are to find £6k for an FI Rating in order to build hours or simply sit and wait for the upturn when even 250 hr pilots will get snapped up. But that long wait can destroy your enthusiasm for flying. Oh, sorry, there is another option: the National Lottery! :}

So, my suggestion is you listen to Hezza and do a great deal of research into FTOs and course fees, add 20% because it'll cost that much more due to unforeseen extras and inflation, and then do yourself a very detailed financial plan to plot your arrival as a new fATPL holder.

Seriously mate, you are still young - I was 8 years older when I made a career change - and if it takes you 4 years to get your licence you will still be a young man and may just arrive on the job market as it's booming again.

Good luck.

MH152

mrwilko
23rd Feb 2009, 09:58
PM me for info/advice.