Airlines in India going to cut Expats pilots...IS IT TRUE??..

[viking320]

Airlines go hunting for desi pilots, crew

Mumbai: Domestic airlines have geared up for a massive recruitment programme for local pilots after civil aviation minister asked carriers this week to replace their foreign pilots by July 2010. Sensing possible shortage of Indian pilots over the next three quarters, full service carriers such as Jet Airways and Kingfisher Airlines have already sounded out competitors’ pilots.
Jet Airways has nearly 780 Indian and 230 foreign pilots. “We will gradually make Jet Airways a fully Indian-run airline and the process has already started,” said a senior Jet Airways official.
On the other hand, National Aviation Company of India, which runs the national carrier Air India, will be hiring 40 trainee pilots and co-pilots from Indian citizens. An Air India spokesperson said these fresh pilots will also have to execute performance bond after completion of training . Air India is a national carrier and it keeps hiring pilots at regular intervals , he added.
The main concern is that India doesn’t have enough ‘efficient’ pilots, with the expertise and experience to fly large aircraft like Boeing and Airbus . The industry may see cut-throat hiring from competition, said an analyst with a brokerage firm.
Currently, India has about 1,000 foreign pilots in domestic airlines. In 2005, the government allowed airline operators to hire foreign co-pilots , senior pilots or commanders. Directorate General of Civil Aviation last year said 1,490 foreign pilots were given licences to seek work in the Indian civil aviation sector.
Not only full service carries but lowfare airlines are also hiring pilots. Gurgaon-based no-frill carrier SpiceJet ' plans to hire a dozen more in the current fiscal year.
20/02/09 Mithun Roy/Economic Times

Viking 320

[faheel]

You must have been on a desert island for the last 6 months Viking !
Yes its true and not only airlines in India either.
Any airline around the world that has a large local pilot workforce and expats flying for them as well will start cutting expats first in any downturn.

It just makes economic sense,so in any downturn the expats will allways be the first to go.:(

[cf680c2b]

"a large local pilot workforce"

Do you mean the guys just coming out of flight school?

If they had "a large local pilot workforce", then they would have never hired expats. Ask yourself why they hired expats in the first place in a country that has almost a billion people. Aparantly they were lacking something.

Lets hope this drive to nationalize too early does not cause a renumeration in blood.

[faheel]

There are approx 1800 pilots in SIA of which 200 are expats I would consider that a "large local pilot workforce" :ugh:

[Schumi - Red Baron]

India doesn’t have enough ‘efficient’ pilots, with the expertise and experience to fly large aircraft like Boeing and Airbus


Jet, KF and other airlines in india are still getting FATA for their pilots for 3 years.....It's just a political gimmick....Aviation sector is the one the indian governmnet is proud of, as media said so many pilots got job and all that stuff.....The people don't know the ground reality that how many pilots are not flying as they don't have jobs...And all these airlines wouldn't be hiring the new cpl pilot but experienced pilots.....All these airlines have excess of trainee pilots... (KF has something like 380 excess pilots).... The government is trying to make INDIA shining logo shine in these elections.... But the ground reality is something else...

Earlier the media said india need 5000 pilots in next 3-5 years..... And the result is in front of you....This is indian media...Good for nothing....

[bad_attitude]

expats are here to stay.

it's high time pilots stopped reading news paper articles written by journos with j@ck sh!t knowledge about aviation and taking them seriously.

[cf680c2b]

I thought the topic was India, at least that was the intention of the person starting the thread.

But, if you want to talk about Singapore, you would still be wrong. "a large local pilot....." means, for example:

SIA is expanding like mad, needs 1000 pilot tomorrow with a minimun of 3000 hours total time and 1000 jet.

SIA gets 5000 applicants for the job.

Now that is a large local pilot population.

I don't think Singapore has that, sorry.

:ugh::ugh: right back at ya :ok:

[Schumi - Red Baron]

@cf680c2b

Mate i think that faheel was just giving an example of "large local workforce"....:ugh::ugh::ugh:

And SIA is in a class of its own...U cannot compare any airline in india with it.....:=

[faheel]

cf680c2b
I did not say Singapore has a large local pilot work force.
I did say SIA has a large local pilot workforce...there is a difference.

Anyway Singapore is a small country and I grant you there was a time when they needed expats for their expansion however they have a very active cadet pilot scheme.

By the time the next employment boom arrives ( at least 4 years away and prob much longer) their need for expats will be zilch.:sad:

[vagabond 47]

In the interests of Payload, etc maybe Singapore should employ "Regular sized Pilots", and not the LARGE version.
If this is not possible due undersupply of Regular Sized Pilots in Asia then Crew Meals could be Noodle and Rice removed to formulate a more acceptable size of workforce............Bread supplement could be experimented with;... on second thoughts "noodles", make you more Regular.
If all else fails .......:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[masalama]

The need in airlines of India are for captains/TRI's and TRE's ..... we have enough CPL holders who can easily be trained to be a co-pilot , at last count close to 2000 + CPL holders without jobs.

Things that the DGCA can do to ease the expat requirement include making the ATPL exam more user-friendly, currently there's no logic to some of their questions and which other country has a viva ...clearly we have a large number of experienced co-pilots who are more than capable of being captains but for the ATPL.

AI would rather hire expats than employ experienced captains from other airlines in India , they somehow find it fine than Indian nationals should accept less money, no seniority and no progression ....the recent ad for the 747/310 captains and the lack of interest from indian nationals due to the low T's & C's ....I would not like to speculate but there are rumors that hiring expats are more lucrative to a few in AI ...dunno how much that's true or is it the good old AI redtapism at play????

If DGCA, airlines in India and the ministry of Civil Aviation really want to take this forward, we can do it and anybody who thinks that there will be a large number of aviaition disasters once the expats go is seriously wrong ....all we need is a will.....

masalama.

[Schumi - Red Baron]

I think that it's wrong that we should make the ATPL exam easier for more ATPL pilots... Instead the pilots should up their ante.... DGCA should make it more practical though.... U don't want anyone taking ATPL for granted....

I cannot see any logic that AI prefers expats over indian pilots as expats are expensive.... I think that someone might be benefiting from this in AI...:confused:


anybody who thinks that there will be a large number of aviaition disasters once the expats go is seriously wrong ....


No one says that it will happen, it's said that it might happen...The fact is which everyone knows that indians are ignorant... Yes there are indian pilots who are best in what they do but the corrupt, bureaucratic system is the major hindrance. No one is ready to learn from their mistakes..... Safety is compromised for money....:ugh:

[alouette3]

Indians are ignorant????

Care to expand on that Manfred?
Alt3

[peterporker]

Passing an ATPL exams doesn't not make one capable of becoming a captain. I currently fly as a capt in India and the fo's are so inexperienced that they don't even have a clue how poorly they fly. They can quote the SSOP's and FCOM, but when it come to important, real world skill, 95% are severaly lacking. Believe me, when the expats are finally pushed out, there will be bent and broken airplanes in India. I have been a capt on 3 continents and can honestly say that the majority of Indian fo's are years away from being capable commanders.

[airborneforever]

Dear manfred von richthofen and mr p.p.,
I hate to remind you but a wise man once said,good pilots aren't born, they are made.
I sure as hell hate getting into the semantics of things but you cant just classify a bunch of people as ignorants and carry on.
You were no where as good a pilot when you had the experience of some of these f/o's you trash,maybe you were a bit better,maybe you were a bit worse, that is not the point. the point is that there was some one in the left seat you taught you and over the years you became good enough and skilled enough to be an airline commander.
i am a copilot working in an airline, and i dont want to be a commander before a couple of years learning. i, and a lot of chaps like me respect and value the captains flying with us,be you white, brown,black or yellow.
when i see you, i see the vast amount of experience you bring from across the continents and years with you.
and as you said you have served on 3 different continents, you seriously want to tell people that you were welcomed with open arms everywhere.
no one likes an outsider taking away jobs in their own backyard,no one,even if they are not qualified to replace that man or woman.
that just is the life of an expat pilot. get used to it sir.
i respect you, i respect the pilots from mexico,brazil,malaysia,indonesia,thailand, australia etc who fly with me,
i want to learn from them, so that one day, when i have learnt enough, and one day when i can be confident of being responsible of the lives of my passengers i can step up and be an airline captain and continue a tradition hued not in racist and coloured tones but one whose story has been written by the broad brush strokes of responsibility and respect for these machines we fly and feel proud of.
please dont take this little riposte to be in any way designed to anger or invite you to a written tussle.
just remembe that it takes time from being average to being good in a plane,that and inspiration from folks like you.
in that plane no one else but you can polish my techniques, if you hold so deep a bias, should i be blamed?
if you think so sir, i rest my case.

[Schumi - Red Baron]

Mate i agree with you for whatever u said but i agree with with peterporker too that some FO's in india fly poorly.... One FO in a major indian airline said that VSI shows ROC in degrees..... Angle of bank is shown by Altitude indicator.... And there are many other instances like this... This is quite serious....Imagine him becoming a commander.... You never want to fly with the commander who knows nothing at all.... They might pass the ATPL exam with help of coaching classes but the skill and knowledge is still not there..... Some of the FO's are brilliant and know everything but then, there are these type of FOs also..... It's a known fact that during the aviation boom india some students had fake entries in their log book to save money and to get job as soon as possible and thats the only reason some of the training schools are black listed in india.....

What can you say about those pilots..... Airborneforever,you are a good pilot and a good human but there are many other type of people flying as FO's and commanders too......

[TopTup]

Airborneforever: Well written. I only wish that there were more FO's like you in India. If this were true I may have stayed.

Equally true is what has been written above. Pilots of "that" standard would not / should not be permitted solo in a single engine C152, in a "respctable" country's aviation regulatory body, yet in India they are flying A310's, B737NG's, A320's and B777's.

I flew in India and left due the incessant corruption, small mindedness and shear dangerous culture that is so prevalent.

The overwhemling majority is that expats are not welcomed, that those national CPL holders with an "incredible" 250 hrs TT believe a (jet) airline job is a RIGHT, not a priviledge to be earnt. The vast majority of (upper & middle) management, comanders and FO's are so beligerant in their attitude that they cannot see the experience of others purley in view of the colour of their skin or nationality.

AI certainly has a legacy and culture of corruption and severe mediocrity where safety is compromised beyond (my) professional belief. (Hence I left).

"EARNING" an ICAO Category 2 has been well earnt.

So, kick out the expats who offer experience and come from airlines where standards were/are high and SOPs are respected and maintained as a matter of professionalism and as a MINIMUM standard. The DGCA just wants to keep lowering that bar for political gain and, dare I say it, greasing the backhands of too many. Safety?

[doubleu-anker]

Schumi - Red Baron


"..... Angle of bank is shown by Altitude indicator...."

Am I missing something here? I have been looking at AI's/AH's for decades and I thought the angle of bank was derived from the AI. Same as wings level, I.E., zero A of B.:ugh:

[peterporker]

Airborneforever, thanks for your reply. I wish that more fo's here had the same mindset as you do, but unfortunately most do not. I am constanty flying with ones that believe that once they pass the ATPL exams that they are ready to be commanders, even though they still don't know how to use the rudder pedals or fly a visual approach. Also in many countries in the world one has to actually know how to fly an airplane before flying professionally, in India most fo's learn to fly with a planeload of paying pax. I feel that the vast majority of Indian fo's have skipped all the important steps in learning to become competent professional pilots. These building blocks would be: flight instructing, single pilot charter/freight, FO in turboprop, etc, and when sufficiently experienced then flying for an airline. This is the path that I took and most of my aviator friends took as well. I'm not saying that ones flying ability has anything to do with ones nationality, one of the best aviators I know is an NRI (learned to fly and flew professionally out of India for years), but the system in place in India for training and checking pilots is very inadequate and quite dangerous.

Here's an honest fact from my personal experience: As a commander in the USA I have never taken the controls off of an FO, as a commander in EU I only took the controls once (due to brand new fo and max crosswind), and as a commander in India, I have lost count of the times I've taken the controls off of an FO. I'm not saying this to belittle the Indian FO's, I'm just pointing out a fact that shows the level of training and experience in India.

[condorbaaz]

There are very good points raised here.

However, the reality is also there..
The routes are reducing, Wide body ac are being leased out, The locals are opposing the nearly double salaries of Expats, Losses are being run into millions daily/ weekly.
There has to be a rationalisation of workforce, and naturally the sequence will be Expat FO,Local Trainee FOs, Line XPTCapt, XPT TRI etc.
The TREs will remain becoz of the nasty and petty bloody minded local examiners... mostly Ex Indian Airlines. Their FATAs are being renewed.

All upgrades are frozen, new entrants are being asked to join ATR if they wish to join, whether Turboprop or Jet background.

Hence not only expats, even loal captains looking for job security or order are looking at other national airlines

Not looking bright for all

[rdr]

Peter Porker and Condorbazz, both your posts are unfortunately the TRUTH about the Indian aviation scene.
The aviation culture is still light years away from safety, instead, the mantra of most is to take a short cut to get rich. In addition, the dangerous thing is that most do not realise where they are in the scheme of things. So, the coverups and bull**** goes on to grab a piece of the pie.
Anything to furthur oneself....blame the expats, payoff the officials, use your political clout, stir up your fellow pilots, mislead the media, stir up nationalist feelings...etc. The few talented locals are up against the whole unperforming systemic clout of those in power. Nobody has the stamina or courage to right things. So, the daily stumble from blunder to blunder goes on.
I do emphatise that for many, it is the only way in India to make it in aviation. But this does not make it right. It makes it downright DANGEROUS.
Until you get a group of professional, uncorrupt and independant auditors to set things right, the aviation scene will not improve, especially with the elections round the corner.
Meanwhile, SQ, EK, QR, CX, BA... and the rest will continue raping the country of millions of moolah EVERYDAY.

[Schumi - Red Baron]

doubleu-anker

Thats exactly what i felt when i heard that answer from FO of an airline.... You think that he was skilled enough and had sufficient knowledge to be in that position but !!! :ugh:..... He was one of those who did 250 hrs and got a job straight way into the airline on the jets....

And on telling him that he was wrong and asking the question next day he just said he forgot to search for the answer.... Thats how ignorant he was... I cannot imagine him as a commander and responsible for 200 lives....

[airborneforever]

Thank you, all of you, for understanding the basic thrust of my words.
I agree with the horrific instances you have recalled.
i for one remember that a batch mate in the initial endorsement class on the 737NG dint know what a SID was!!!
nothing major, but......he bloody well should have known.
the problem with this country is that a vast majority of the populace is happy as long as they dont have any issues bothering them.
same goes for flying, fathers money and clout got him a license and a job in 12 months time, the rest will be taken care of by the company.
this innate sense of being the master of all that one surveys leads to such insipid pilots one would rather not know.
but then that again is an escapist tendency;as long as i dont know him or have nothing to do with him i am doing my bit.
the FAA has taken a very wise step by downgrading the DGCA, i have seen the Civil Aviation Officials frothing over this but they deserve it.
Corrupt government+A populace disillusioned with the politicians/civil servants+bad salaries= inadeqaute staff strength with low morales.
At this moment,let me take this opportunity for all of us to suggest atleast one idea on how to improve things in this place,
gentlemen, we need help, not tirades. if no else accepts it, i do.
so lets see the best in each of us on this forum now and see how we as pilots can do something individually to improve things?
lets ideate about this over that dinner of fantastic chicken curry and come up with something. :O
the floor is all yours gentlemen,let the debates begin.

[TopTup]

Airborneforever....Once again, my hat comes off to you.

But you are regrettably in the desperate majority.

Change things? My story: I failed pilots when necessary (Cmdrs and FO's) due their inablity to maintain the standard as presented on the DGCA issued report I was to complete. I did not blame the pilot but the TRAINING SYSTEM they came from. I wrote reports and requested meetings. The result was ME be interrogated and and told to shut up, and that AI could not afford to have pilots fail due the shortage of pilots at that time. I quizzed pilots (Cmdrs & FOs) on the aircraft systems, uses and methodologies and was left too too often with blank faces. I was RESENTED for trying to make a difference and set nothing but the minimum standard.

Maybe it is this that could be the start of something big? Are you prepared to go "THAT" far? Will you ask your Cmdr to put out that cigarette, to keep the cockpit door locked, to fly the approach as per the SOPs, to stay in uniform, to question him if he/she is late for work, to remind him/her not to do the RT when they are PF and you are PM, etc, etc, etc.... Just maintain the SOPs!!!?? Will you write a report on that Cmdr for not adhering to SOPs after your input?

That is where these issues begin - the grass roots.

I wish you well sir, and again you have gained mine (and others it appears) utmost respect. Now, follow through.

[VT-ASM]

Companies that hire such nutheads should have their HR heads paraded on the streets...
I second the FAA decision to downgrade the DGCA...
It is more of a circus than a competent aviation authority.....

[bad_attitude]

you've gotta be kidding me man. dude, seriously, stop posting cr@p like this! :=:mad::}

[Left Wing]

Dear Mod..pls remove this junk by agent123...:ugh::=:mad:...

[bogey2]

You couldn’t have put it in a better way airborneforever. Very well said! You’ve hit the nail right on the head especially in your 1st post.:D

I do not completely disagree with mr p.p. Some of the fo’s definitely make you wonder whether his or her sorry a** is sitting in the cockpit for the very 1st time or have they actually been trained for hours on the aircraft.
And the thing to worry about most is the daunting fact that the root of this problem lies in the infuriating obliviousness of the pilot towards his shortcomings and not his inexperience.
I have seen how casual and nonchalant some pilots were when I was doing my type rating. Extremely pitiable knowledge about something as crucial as the aircraft systems and something as vital as understanding of plates!
And the scary bit is- their indifference and refusal to change in spite of knowing that they should. As airborneforever so very aptly said, this is the courtesy of overly generous parents and of being able to throw around dad’s weight! Its quite amusing to see how complacent and dangerously confident they get as long as they have the blessings of daddy dearest.
But this is a typical case of a handful bad eggs making the whole dozen look bad.
There are still some of us who take the pains of doing it the right way.
I don’t expect myself to sit in the left seat for a long time. There’s so much to learn and so much to experience. We are just like babies waiting to be tutored by the captains we look up to. Why, aren’t they the most trustworthy source of information in the cockpit, what with the hours of experience to their credit? Well I certainly do believe so.
And how does nationality, colour or language figure in this scheme of things?
I wouldn’t give 2 hoots to where his home is or what accent he carries, what matters is how much I can learn from him. Right from getting to know the smallest thumb rule (it never ceases to astonish me as to how they always work so miraculously!) to learning the big tips of flying that marvel of a machine which commands to be treated the right way.
I want to know it all and who better to ask than that person sitting next to you? Let’s be realistic. Who cares whether or not you can pronounce his name properly, he has a logbook decorated with all those hours and hence a pool of experience you cannot challenge.

But yes. We are not born mavericks but we sure are aiming for Top Gun. Give us time and your patience.
If the captains are going to come to the cockpit with a preformed unpleasant opinion about us fo’s then we both are going to be fighting a whole other war in the cockpit than the one which requires to be won.

And talking about trying to change things, you’ve got quite a story there Mr. TopTup.
We need more people doing the same thing you do. Failing people who are not upto standards, continuously quizzing pilots on SOP’s, performance, etc is the most effective way of telling them what they lack!
Of course, you end up being frowned upon like you pointed out. And it can get quite nasty too I believe.
You cannot afford to spare the child anymore but unfortunately you can’t use the rod either. My urge would only be for you guys to keep doing what you do to at least not let the standards get down to being dangerous.
I think the fo’s can do their bit by recognizing the responsibility they shoulder. The uniform they wear makes them accountable to the living and breathing passengers at the back. It’s not for fun and games. It’s not for glory and pompousness.
A very small suggestion would be to stop encouraging the behavior of indifference prevalent at least among the friend circle that we have. I’m sure we all have these 1 or 2 friends who are busy blowing away the “big” bucks and unintentionally probably, loose the focus. I keep reminding them that they need to be studying, need to keep reading because you can never know enough about the aircraft you are flying. Basically stop them from being smug and don’t be afraid to point out if and how they are going wrong.

I would ideate more, but do I get that fantastic dinner of chicken curry, airborneforever? :ok:

[Geebz]

Sadly, tragically, none of this hubub about the DGCA, inexperienced F/Os, media ineptness, airline mismangament, etc will be changed or addressed until blood is shed. It's the unfortunate reality of this business.

Good Luck trying to change anything. Ain't gonna' happen. But I wish you well in your endeavor.

[weido_salt]

It is widely accepted that all expat crews will be out of India in 2010. Fair enough as there are Indian pilots out of work.

Air India and others are advertising for experienced pilots on type. That to me means they are recruiting expats. Why would Air India be recruiting expats if they have at most one year to be employed in India before the employees will be out on their ear, considering they will do nothing in India until security cleared? Three months in some cases.

Does anyone know the real truth?

[Schumi - Red Baron]

Kingfisher Airlines is also in the process of phasing out expatriate pilots and engineers to cut down costs. The expatriate pilots on an average earn 40% more than the local ones.


Private carriers seek cuts in salaries of pilots and engineers - Corporate News - livemint.com (http://www.livemint.com/2009/03/08215232/Private-carriers-seek-cuts-in.html)


Is it all the election campaign or reality...:confused:

[Nevrekar]

Spicejet is still hiring expat Capts. Most of them were here earlier. Some Indian Capts are planning to leave for the Middle-East for a tax free salary, which is the same as expats get here. Indian ATPL holders are being given the opportunity to upgrade as well. CPL holders who were hired earlier are being inducted as the need arises.. For the most part, it seems like a fair deal for all concerned. The main loser in all this is the 250 hr newbie with no experience. Until Indian pilots make it to the left seat these guys will have to wait it out as there will be limited openings. Supply & demand.
Once July 2010 comes along, the numbers will have to be examined again.
FATA's have been slow to approve, but they are coming in slowly from the DGCA. While the political stance is to announce the removal of the expat Capt, it is not practical as yet. Now if KF or someone else folds and there are 100 odd Indian Capts on the street, then the expat Capt will have to leave to accomodate them.

[Schumi - Red Baron]

The only thing which makes me think that these announcements by DGCA are not real because pilots are being still given FATA.... And it's airlines necessity to have expat pilots as there are not many national experienced pilots....

I think that there are quite a few indian pilots also who are leaving for the middle east.... But yes the biggest looser are the young pilots with 250 odd hours as i can't see any airline inducting them soon.....

[scorpilot]

I think we all have gone a tad overboard with the usuals...ie...the 200/250 hrs rookie...the corrupt dgca...the inexperienced/indisciplined pilots et al...i agree to all of the above but please let me stress pilots do fail in their command training,more than a handful were put down last year...pilots are shot down at the command upgrade interview/sim check....YOU SIMPLY CANNOT UPGRADE TO CAPTAIN as easily as some of the posts make it out to be...PERIOD!!

I have nothing against expats but the fact remains that they have a limited shelf life...and they know that...they come for a specific purpose/period.
We have very capable and serious trainers ( both locals and expats ) and a lot of new training concepts are being incorporated wherein even trainees are to fill up feedback froms. Trainers are being retaught and regularly assessed...I for one see a huge change in our "attitude" towards training/trainers..its very positive and hope it makes all of us smarter and sharper pilots.

[pilot_007_2001]

Is the phasing out of expats only applicable for airlines or for others also??

[lunars]

True story as it happened
My last time in India was a real circus.
I have been on leave and came back to India fit for fight.
According to my company Notification I could fly until 15th of Mar. BUT !!! I had a bad feeling something could go wrong…
I had to fix a new FATA validation, new Airport Entry Pass and a new visa. My Indian e-visa was valid until last Feb 2009. I was not very sure my company want to help me with that. And famous Indian administration ! I had many doubts. ] Foreign Reg. Office made extension of my visa (in Dec) with one month because of my FATA validation. They promised me a new visa extension when I had a new FATA.My company had fixed a new FATA and a new Airport Pass. No problems So I did a new, fresh Route Check and could start flight again. I hopped for 4-5 weeks flights… But it was surplus co-pilots in India and I was rostered off because of all admin problems. Placed on reserve.
And I had still to fix visa extension So I went to FRRO with a big optimism. Everything was fixed before. Only a copy of the new FATA should be attached…….But, it I was not possible. Because of negative opinion I have got of Indian Police.The police has done an investigation and said I was Illegal with fake address !!!In my visa application my company has filled wrong address from the beginning. He wrote landlords address instead of mine. Copied from rental contract ? The landlord stays in the same building on fourth floor and owns one apartment on 4th floor where I stay.
But he works in Dubai so he couldn´t answer the Indian Police questions So I had to go to Indian Police Department and try to get the Police to confirm my real address….
Three days later, after the weekend, I went to Police with the correct paper from company and a copy of rental contract. It should be easy; I thought
I just forgot I was in India… A new investigation could start only if FRRO gave a clear, new order with a new, clear motivation. And FRRO couldn´t. I had to start whole visa procedure from the beginning. Should start in Delhi where I did my first registration and I had the last known address !!! It should take at least 6 weeks.Late evening 24 of Feb scheduling called me and notified change in my roster. Admin instead of flight. AGAIN !This time for the last time…. company called me urgently to head office for clearing.
It was very, very important that I should leave India in Feb. Ticket to home 28 Feb
Visa was MY PROBLEM Company gave me payment until 3rd of Mar. By and adios.At the head office all people were nice and clearing was done within two hours.[/font]
They apologized a lot. So after my vacation in January I went to India to fly 6 weeks – RESULT – I did only two flights and a lot of unnecessary administration.Incredible India so this is a true story how things work in India so you have to have a lot of patience,understanding,and finally take it on the chin.good luck with flying and working in India its a wonderful place and experience of a life timeCheers

[saperaa]

lunars
sad to knw your true story.
The police has done an investigation and said I was Illegal with fake address !!!In my visa application my company has filled wrong address from the beginning. He wrote landlords address instead of mine. Copied from rental contract ? The landlord stays in the same building on fourth floor and owns one apartment on 4th floor where I stay.
But he works in Dubai so he couldn´t answer the Indian Police questions So


you came back for duty after Mumbai @Taj hotel story.

with wrong address and owner in dubai who didnot answer to the police.:ugh:

your company may needed your services but afraid to attract police investigation in to company ADM.

WRONG TIMINGS ....but you are actually out of the mess.

good luck

[aditya104]

With hard work, a vision for the future, help-all-by-improving-safety attitude we can change the face of Indian aviation. It is not that difficult when we live by abiding all the rules, life becomes much more safer if everybody does that.

Friend circle is a good starting point to share ideas and safety tips.

I am with all those who are optimistic and positive about improving aviation in India.

[lunars]

I like to come back and work in India because i did really enjoyed working with people of different backgrounds company was good people are good and so much of life in India and even my family was looking forward ro spending holidays .i wish it was that easy to change the aviation in India .but i like your thoughts and at an age of 19 very good aditya keep it up .
safe landings to all

[VGOIII]

Does anyone know the current status of whether India is short of Flying Instructors to teach the initial PPL? As far as I knew, most were going to the USA for their training, and then coming back here as FAA CPL holders with their MEIRs and converting them, due to the lack of flight schools and instructors in India.

I am an English citizen, but an Indian PIO Card holder (Person of Indian Origin). I have my UK Instructor Rating, I have my FAA CPL MEIR. Do you think there is much chance of me working as a PPL Instructor over here in India?

I tried to work for the Bombay flying club 2 years back, but they were unsuccessful in getting my security clearance done, because they didn't really know how to forward my papers correctly.

I think they still would employ me if the market is such that they need me, but if they did, I would need to get someone to help them get my security clearance for me. Does anyone have any knowledge on this?

[123567]

Lunars

I feel for you, but - and in India there is always a but.

I just got my FATA renewed for another twelve months and i've moved three times - hell i don't even know where i'm living nowadays.

New airport ID and everything - you know how it is month by month...

I suspect something is amiss with your company people.??

I've never had a problem with any official paperwork etc. but friends of mine who work for other companies have - enough said.

PS visa renewed in 2 days....

but i'm sure if they didn't want me there a problem would suddenly appear... that's why we get paid more than the locals - like prostitutes - we get paid to leave not for S@x

[lunars]

More jobs on horizon for Indian pilots




New Delhi: Jobless pilots in the country have a reason to cheer. After the Directorate General of Civil Aviation’s (DGCA) directive to replace foreign pilots with their Indian counterparts by July 31 2010, commercial pilot licence (CPL) holders will be in demand.
At present, there are around 1,000 foreign pilots working for different airlines in India. Also Air India is on a hiring spree. “This year, we plan to hire 30-40 pilots every three months and to induct 30 new aircraft (including the replacements) during the fiscal 2009-2010,” said Jeetendra Bhargava, executive director, corporate communications, Air India.
The directive has also favoured flying schools. Acumen School of Pilot Training (ASPT) claims the number of applications in past two months have gone up. “In past two months, we have got more than 45 applications,” said Chandni Chawla, ASPT’s business head. Even the flying schools abroad are also chasing in on this. Recently, Pacific Aviation Academy from British Columbia held a workshop in the Capital and received a huge response.
But DGCA has a word of caution. Charan Das, Deputy Director General, DGCA, said: “One shouldn’t expect a big turnaround unless airline companies get in the expansion mode, which is not happening as of now.”
10/03/09 Vimal Joshi/Hindustan Times

[aditya104]

Thanks Lunars
_________________________________
I believe that all such news clippings about more job openings in India for pilots are false news promoted by government/dgca or government controlled bodies(air india). :suspect:

Government could be misusing media for the coming general elections, by making a good image about the economy/society.:*
__________________________________

VGOIII

With the boom time now past, I don't think many Indians will start to learn flying now as they did about a year ago. Though, I am not sure about actual vacancies at the flying school.

[B737NG]

....and why the heck is there still advertising going on that Indian Carriers need Pilots? I got another E-mail recently with the question: When can you attend screening and when can you join??? Open for any feedback.

Fly safe and land happy

NG

[asvsu]

:ok:In India, not much experinced trainers ..skill shortage for TRE/TRI for almost all type of a/cs..still looking for captains for some type of A/c like ERJ170/90 & ATR 42/72. I have replied to a thread recent in past on the same subject..I think there are about 1200 + EXPAT pilots in India..not all pilots will be replaced by locals overnight..it will take another 2 to 3 years..for trainers, probably will take 3 to 4 years to replace with indian pilots..

B737NG if the offer is good ..grab it..you may spend two years..it will be a nice & diff experience in India..All the best

[saperaa]

New Delhi: Jobless pilots in the country have a reason to cheer. After the Directorate General of Civil Aviation’s (DGCA) directive to replace foreign pilots with their Indian counterparts by July 31 2010, commercial pilot licence (CPL) holders will be in demand.


when aviation was booming many went to foreign countries to quickly fill the logbook and return with 250 hrs.
when boom busted airlines madethem to sit on the bench.
as many posts indicated level of knowledge of first officers ,its understandable.
thats the reason DGCA is issueing notices to the airlines to setup training centres, realising the CPL holders level of comptence and the gap to take up right seat.

these CPL holders are not threat to any experienced pilot.
its just downturn of aviation industry.
when experienced pilots write some thing about low timers ,i hope they think about themselfs,when they were new to aviation and how they got CPL and hardships to get to right seat.
lets not demoralise any body.

[batsky2000]

Does anyone know if this directive also applies to corporate flight departments? Or does it just apply to the Airlines?

Does anyone have a copy of the directive that they can post, or where I could find it on-line?

Thanks

[batsky2000]

Anybody with info????

[condorbaaz]

It applies to the issue of FATA. FATA issued now are valid till jul 2010 only and will not be renewed unless for a very good reason. Non avaiability of trained pilot not being good enough as prior notice of 1.5 yr is given.


Copy of Notice is with companies to be enforced. Not a Public document.

[willfly380]

Just heard . Jet Airways is looking for expat captains for the 737 NGs . It is reliable ,so if interested please apply.
Lot of new international routes coming up on the 737s, like saudi , Nepal from mumbai and possibly Phillipines etc.