Need another opinion please!

[The_Quo16]

Hey, first up im currently in Florida to get my ppl and hrs build.

After this im aiming to do ATPL theory.

I'm currently engaged with her back in the uk doing a uni degree i find myself stuck with a few options.

1- stay in florida and do the atpl ground school with OFT
2- go back to the uk and do ground school with Cabair Bournmouth
3- Go back to uk and self study at home.


option 3 - im feeling will be very hard to do so dont really think i could manage.


What does everyone else think? any advice or experience from any school?

[potkettleblack]

Considering the market is so dire at the moment and there are few if any jobs I wouldn't be contemplating any PROFESSIONAL training at this time. In fact it is going to get a lot worse before it actually gets better over the next few years.

Here is what I would do. Finish your PPL and hour building in the US. The hour building will help consolidate your PPL and give you confidence for single pilot flying. Then come back to the UK and find either a cheap club or better still a cheap share (no capital group would be even better) and fly when you can to keep yourself current. Maybe even consider undertaking an IMC course. You will need a checkout back in the UK anyway before someone will rent you an aircraft so undertaking some training like an IMC will actually kill two birds with one stone so to speak.

Get a job or go to Uni or find whatever other way you can to make money in the recession. Whilst you are working or studying you can look deeper into the ATPL groundschool and ME, CPL/IR and get a feel for the better schools that are around. Rather than going on a residential course like Cabair you could save some dosh and go the Bristol way. The "clock" only starts ticking once you undertake your first exam so there is nothing stopping you from grabbing the manuals and working through them and booking yourself onto a refresher course at some date in the future.

Remember timing is everything and now is not the right time. Good luck.

[The_Quo16]

thanks for the advice,


i do however want to get the atpl part over with as quick as i can.

the cpl and other parts of training i will be taking my time with over the next 1 to 2 yrs.

i have a job i can go back to after i complete the atpl.

self study i think i would find very hard, i find some parts of the ppl difficult but will still manage ie navigation. starting to get the hang of it now.


would studying atpl in the states count against you from an airline company point of view.

[Celtic Pilot]

just remeber the time constraints placed on your exams after you pass the last one...... They CAN expire


Secondly keep in mind that if you do go the full way now and there are no jobs, then these licenses and ratings need to be kept current (some each year)!!!


££££££!!

[potkettleblack]

Nobody cares less where you did the ATPL's. Unfortunately for all of the stress and hassle they are a mere (but expensive) tick in the box.

Don't underestimate the impact of that ticking clock once you sit your first exam. So many people have come unstuck and had to retake exams which is completely unnecessary if a bit of care and attention was undertaken. Bookings with schools can fall through (or they go bust) as well which could give someone undue stress when the focus should be on enjoying the training and getting first time passes.

[Richie82]

I'd be thinking of my woman, surely spending 6 months on the otherside of the pond will put a strain on things?

[Keygrip]

Quo - your username block says "Scotland" - no idea where.

If you were me, which you aren't, I would finish at PPL then go home - certainly NOT do the hour building (for various reasons - none of which you will care much for).

Consider doing the ATPL in Glasgow. Why pay for travel and accommodation when you may be able to do it locally.

THEN, after passing them all, look at doing the "hour building" professionally and specifically for your future aims - which may well have changed by then anyway.

Yes, there is the time limit, but you have three years.

Unfortunately, my guess is that you will go with the much more fun option of drilling 100 hours of P1 holes into the Florida sky, picking up as many bad habits as you can, then grounding youself for six months of classroom work before trying to start a professional training course and complaining that you've gone over hours on the course.

=^..^=

[Reluctant737]

The Quo16,

This forum is there so people may express their opinions, so here's mine -

I must stress one point before continuing - there is no such thing as a boom in the airline recruitment industry. There are times when finding a job is easier or harder than at other times, but there is no such thing as a 'boom' so to speak. It is ALWAYS bloody hard to find that first job, whatever the circumstances.

Personally, I think you should get the PPL done, and hourbuild in the States - it saves money, albeit not as much now the pound's falling against the dollar. Take that into consideration at the time of making important decisions. But when you're hourbuilding, push your limits - if you intend on going commercial (which you obviously do), get a night qualification, so when you're hourbuilding you're not limited to flying in the day, and you're also building experience. Track your NDBs, fly between a few VORs, plan some diversions, hit some Class C/D airspace, land at an international airport. To that last suggestion, this is a VERY good reason to fly in the states. Landing fees (which will cost you £10 a shot over here) are practically non existent, and the larger airports run very reasonable prices.

If you can, distance learn because it's cheaper, but try to keep as much of your professional training as you can to one school, as many airlines don't like looking up 101 different schools that they've never heard of. The big names are the safest bet.

Keep your costs down - ultimately you will end up with the same licence, regardless of where you train, so strike that balance between a good quality of training for a decent price.

Nobody is really qualified to tell you whether or not now is a good time to train. Past statistics suggest this is going to be a real nasty one (we're already entering into a depression), but correlation is not always correct. We could be out of here in a year's time, or it could take a decade to return to equilibrum. You'll find that 99% of people on here preaching about the financial situation are nothing more than armchair economists, who have a right to an opinion, but are probably incorrect. This is why I keep my views conservative.

Is now a good time to train? Is tomorrow going to see more or less road accidents than today? That's a pretty good comparison, because yes, there are factors we have an 'idea' of for tomorrow that will affect the answer we seek, but nobody can be sure. And anybody who thinks they are is a fool.

Also, we must consider that many many people have dropped out of integrated courses and put their training on hold in light of the current 'problem'. If this thing clears up sooner than we expect, those guys will be slapping themselves wondering why the hell they didn't carry on, because you will be next in line once the market of experienced pilots has dried up.

Do you have the ability to fund a TR after training? If things continue to go the way we dread, it's likely that Ryanair will be the only airline who doesn't batten down the hatches (they are well placed for the next year at least, slightly stumped by their having receipt of so many new aircraft this year). So there's an option, but unfairly that's dependent on your financial situation, and on top of that the assessment is a tough one, so it's all about how little eggs you're willing to have in your basket.

The other reason to keep your costs down is this - the airline industry is affected directly and violently by swings in the economy, but there are plenty of flying operations that are not. I could suggest a few places that are currently seeking out pilots if I was asked, and there you have an advantage. The flying tends to be SEP single pilot ops, but it tends to be abroad, and the pay is questionable. Your advantage is, if you can persuade the missus to move away, you'll be ahead of all those thousands of guys with experience who simply cannot afford to work a flying job such as that. Or those with committments back at home.

There really are far too many variables to consider to make a logical decision on when is the right time to train.

Personally, if you can tick those boxes above, I'd go for it.

I wish you all the best on your future endeavours, and may your flying career be a happy, and largely uneventful one!

Cheers, Ad

[Flintstone]

Quo.

Keygrip has spent more years in the industry than Reluctant has even been alive which should tell you something about who is qualified to comment. Take Keygrip's advice (and Potkettle's and Celtic's). Timing is everything, there is absolutely no point going boring holes through the sky at this stage and sitting exams that you'll only have to go back and do again if/when you find your timing's off.

Anyone qualifying in the next two years is not going to find a job. There are just too many qualified pilots kicking around. Oh sure, you could buy one with a low cost airline but that'll last about as long as it takes the next batch to come through then you'll find yourself unemployed and owing a shedload of money.

Don't rush. Take your time. See your girlfriend through her degree then she'll be in a position to support you when you need it.

[The Beer Hunter]

I saw that too but didn't Reluctant 737 go very quiet about supporting the new cadets? :hmm: I'm staying to watch.

As for the original question I would say listen to the old timers. Stop or slow right down on the training, things are going to be very quiet on the hiring side for anyone with the ink still wet on their licence for some time to come.

[scooby79]

As someone who has also done a fair bit of flying in different roles, instructing, paradropping, africa and now a shiny jet I havew a few comments. I agree that there are some jobs that most if not all laid off guys will not be looking at, amazingly many low hourd guys don't want to go there either. Paradropping and instructing are the two main ones. Paradropping is not an easy job to get though even though so many say get a job flying jumpers as if they are. There are not that many places and the jobs usually go to people known to the centre. Also as many are now using turbine aircraft that cuts out the total newbie from most.

As far as looking for your first job in Africa flying around the ITCZ being a good idea. It is not! Good fun I am sure but not somewhere for a new pilot to be. Cannot beleive there are many people who would let you fly their aircraft out there with low hours anyway. Some places would be ok mainly down south but then you are probably not going to get a job there as there are employment issues and many home grown pilots.

No one can see the future so it is hard to advise you either way. You could get your licenses, the industry could pick up and you would have a better chance as less people qualified. You could get your license, things could have got worse and you end up spending loads staying current but never get a job. You have to decide if the risk is worth the possible reward.

If it was me. I love flying, and that means any plane. I would go for it, do the exams, hour build, get a single CPL and an IMC, all as cheaply as possible. May get slammed for that by the, I spent +£60,000 so mine is better bregade. Once people have a bit of experience they realise that is mostly total bollo*ks. And then try and get a job flying a light single, you will need to try really hard, travel all over the place, talk to people face to face. If no luck do not throw more money at it, just keep trying.

If living near your girlfriend is the only way to live it will make it far far far harder.

[wannabe15]

Seems like the direction is to take it slow and not to get oneself into too deep a financial situation just to pursue the licenses. I kinda agree with the old hands.

On a separate note, if i may sidetrack the topic and seek an opinion on this:

(a) ATPL (DL) at Bristol (Welcome to Bristol.gs (http://www.bristol.gs)) or
(b) ATPL (DL) at Western Australia Aviation College (WA Aviation College (http://www.waaviationcollege.com.au))

If you are residing in the Far East (ie nearer to travel to Australia then UK), which option would you choose?

I've read much about Bristol and mostly the reviews have been positive. On the other hand, i've not heard much about WAAC. Anyone out there who have similar experience?

cheers

[Abu Bebo]

If you've not heard much about WAAC, try here (http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/228160-western-australian-aviation-college-waac.html)
WAAC have a three-module course for distance learning whereas BS has two modules, so do the maths on the travel and accommodation expenses. However, if your home timezone is closer to WA, then that may be a factor, too.
Good luck with your training and remember you've only got 36 months after your last exam to pass the CPL, or your exam credits expire :eek:

[wannabe15]

Thanks Abu & High Flyer for your response.

I guess weather is not a factor here as i'm intending to go modular (read: spending most time indoors!) My top criteria is the groundschool should be of sufficient standard and the study materials should be the same as well!

[Rugbyears]

Indeed I rather share an opposite view to most, I agree, now is not a good time to be a wannabe trainee. Although, for those of us who insist on forging ahead with the training, must adopt a pragmatic approach and pace the training appropriately. However, why does one believe now is a good time to commence the ATPL studies..? Two reasons…

1) One may quite easily structure a programme of study via distance learning to facilitate part-time employment. Adopting this approach, one can expect to complete studies in a 12-18 month period – (2011)! I would estimate the economic correction to certainly begin to demonstrate signs of improvement by then!

2) The present structure of ATPL examination is changing mid 2009. Now once one has commenced studying, the CAA are obliged to facilitate the original examination format. However, for those of you not engaged in studies at the crossover will be required to complete the new format. You may view this as a positive step forward, I would argue those unfortunate enough to complete the new format during the initial 3 years, will suffer greatly, principally, as little history will exist, i.e. question banks and so on!

Remember, this is simply my own opinion!!:)

With reference to ground schools, I strongly advise you contact them, question how or who is best equipped to facilitate your learning! I would always recommend BristolGroundSchool - Alex and Baz are at the top of the tree in way of educators. Secondly, I would recommend Bournemouth ground school, again a very professional outfit.

Best of luck old boy:ok:

[high flyer 13]

So does that mean that there will be a new format to the questions, how are they going to change ?? :bored:

[wannabe15]

Well, another spanner into the works! Pending change in ATPL format? Looks like i better enrol myself into a school soon!

I figure the conclusion to all the discussion above these is, "TAKE IT SLOW". No point rushing into it. Indeed, taking the ATPL studies first seems to be a more logical step. After all, we have 18 months to pass and hopefully by that time, the market would have turn!