R44 trip to Brno Czech Republic

[biggles99]

I'm delivering a R44 to Brno in Czech Republic next week.

The plan is to leave the Midlands early Tues and make it all the way in one day. If not we'll take two days to reach Brno.
Then it's Ryanair back.

If anyone wants to log the time and fly with me, we are happy to share costs. I don't need the hours - it will be about 10 hours in total, subject to wind and weather.

Please PM me if you are interested

Big Ls

[GoodGrief]

Good luck.

[Aesir]

I would stopover in Brno for a couple of day´s since your there anyway!

Great beer & pretty girls :)

[nigelh]

what exactly do you mean by "share costs " . Are you including fixed costs such as insurance or just fuel . This may be public transport . Please give me all details of money changing hands Nigelh CAA watchdog.

ps i,ll give you a tenner not to have to get into it :eek:

[biggles99]

NigelH

here's the relevant heading and paragraph from the CAA ANO:

SUMMARY OF THE MEANING OF PUBLIC TRANSPORT AND AERIAL WORK

1. The Overall Approach

Public transport and aerial work are defined at Article 157 of the Air Navigation Order 2005 using a number of terms which are defined in Article 155 (1) of the Order.

The general rules are defined at Article 157 (1)-(8).

Six exceptions to those general rules are then established in Articles 158 to 163. (See also table at pages 6 & 7 below).

-------------

5.3 Exception No 3 - Cost sharing (Article 160)

5.3.1 A flight will be deemed to be a private flight for all purposes if the only payment is a contribution to the direct costs of the flight (not annual costs) otherwise payable by the pilot in command. This is provided that (a) no more than four persons (including the pilot) are carried, (b) the pilot pays at least his proportionate share (e.g. if four persons are carried the pilot must pay at least 25% of the direct costs) and (c) the flight has not been publicised in any way except within the premises of a flying club (in which case all the adult persons being carried in the aircraft must be members of that flying club).


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And yes, I will certainly be paying my share.

And yes, I'll have that tenner if/when we meet, please.

regards,

BigLs

[g0lfer]

I note that:

"...and (c) the flight has not been publicised in any way except within the premises of a flying club"

may well make this offer to be in breach of the above regulation?

[biggles99]

oh blimy,

i think we all have to join pprune, don't we?

[nigelh]

The caa have employed me to work undercover to rid GA of all unwelcome and illegal practices ..like using the incorrect colour ink in your log book or accepting money for dodgy flights . Poacher turned gamekeeper you may say :ok: I will be keeping an eye on this flight and will be looking up the caa definition of "club ". you may well be in big trouble := and as for flying a robbo ...well that is unforegiveable . Just checking ....have you done your "haszardous cargo over water in twin engine with co-pilot course plus dunker " otherwise the flight may be illegal :eek:

[biggles99]

Done the dunker (at Andark). Great fun.

The hazardous cargo will depend on the Indian takeaway the night before.

On a more serious point, it' s important to look at the spirit of the law as well as the letter of the law.

What is on offer here is the chance for a rated, current R44 pilot to fly an international mission for a fraction of the usual costs.

It could just as easily be Self-Fly Hire.

Anyone who is aspiring to becoming a CPL should welcome all the help - both financial and opportunities - that they can get. Logging 10 hours at the cost sharing rates may be just the kind of leg-up it takes for someone to get over the next hurdle and start their career.

Anyone who is a "mere" PPL (H) may be wanting to broaden their horizons and gain the experience and confidence to fly more often and more regularly.

This also will help the industry and keep more people flying. More work for the instructors, engineers, sales outfits.

Informing the Pprune community -- which is de facto a forum for "Rotorheads", and one that you have to positively opt-in -- is a far, far cry from putting an ad in The Sun avertising to the public that there are some cheap flights to anywhere in the back of your Twin Squirrel, Nigel.

Big Ls

[R44-pilot]

One day?:eek::eek::eek: what route are you planning?

Over to France, through Belgium and Germany to mid-eastern Czech Rebublic?

Can it be done? even on paper?

[nigelh]

So what you are really saying is that you are selflessly doing this for the future of aviation as we know it !!! You should get some kind of honour , not just mere cash !!
Some innaccuracies though.......WHEN have the caa EVER looked at the spirit of the law ????If they can nab you they will .....the only reason they dont very often is because they are naive and incompetent and can never get their story quite right ....so they fabricate it ( allegedly!!) and then get caught out and lose their case :{ wasting even more of our money trying to keep us all warm and safe ....
Also my flights are NEVER cheap := They are lease agreements as agreed by the caa, therefore come complete with inflight service and refreshments.

[nigelh]

Ok then how many want to do it in a squirrel ??
( if i get 5 in i may even make a profit )

[Martin1234]

biggles99, you say that you don't need the hours. At the same time, you say that you will pay out of your own pocket to deliver the helicopter in Brno.

Just out of curiosity, why would anyone that does not need the hours pay to deliver the helicopter? If you are to enjoy Brno, a return Ryanair flight is probably cheaper. Ok, perhaps you want to take the opportunity to fly just because you enjoy it. The problem is that you won't actually fly if someone accepts your "offer".

is a far, far cry from putting an ad in The Sun avertising to the public

So you mean that the advertisment you made, on a forum publicly available without any need to register, is "within the premises of a flying club"?


:)

I would have taken you more seriously if you would have said that because your cat has a grandmother from the USA and the cat will fly with you to compensate for a defect artificial horizon, American law is applicable and therefore FAA regs and therefore the flight is considered legal.


Sorry, I admit, I just got too much time on my hands! Have a nice flight though.

[Martin1234]

http://webshareimage.com/images/fto2kmlw4kh2cg3uzn.jpg

[Cullear1]

I would like to say to anyone who has the time to make this trip to go for it, I was very fortunate to have made some such trips not with bigles but to different parts of europe and eastern europe, it will be a thouroughly enjoyable trip with someone who has done it before, the whole experience of flying to a different part of europe viewing the scenery eperiencing their ATC, handling facilities, fuelling etc etc will broaden your knowledge greatly. After all I think their is an adventurer in every pilot somewere so let the adventurer out and enjoy the trip!!

[chester2005]

Sorry this is a little off topic but WHAT A CAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

I couldn't stop laughing !!!!!!!!

But seriously this flight would be a great opportunity for a potential CPL

Chester:ok:

[Martin1234]

I have no problem to understand why someone would benefit from flying this ferry flight with biggles99.

What I don't understand is what's in it for biggles99? Why would biggles99, that does not need the hours, PAY to supervise someone else at the controls of the helicopter? Normally, biggles99 probably should have been paid to do.

chester2005, I'm glad that you like the cat. :)

[Torquetalk]

You'll not get a fat cat in a 44

[R44-pilot]

I would LOVE to do this as I've already explained to me Biggles99, I just can't afford the hours right now.

And IF my little bit of research on Biggles99 :ok: is correct he is MORE than qualified to do this trip and I think any one hour building with a bit of cash ready for the hours couldnt get a better opportunity!! come on beats doing circuits or milling around your county!

What better for a new cpl(h) pilot or cpl(h) to be pilot to have than various european country stop offs in your log book and pehaps less than 200 hours??!!! Quite impressive if you ask me!

Like I said if I had the money I would be packing my overnight bag now and for any future trips!

An amazing chance here my fellow wanabee cpl's :ok:

[Martin1234]

Oh dear, you really are making heavy weather of this, aren't you?

I admitted earlier that I got too much time on my hands. :)

Maybe you missed the key bit "I'm DELIVERING a R44..." in the opening few words of the original post?

Perhaps that's where biggles99 is getting his money from? "Yeah, we cost share this flight, I pay may share of the direct running costs, but I just got £XXXXXX for selling this helicopter and a part of the deal was to deliver it in Brno". Is the pilot still considered to pay out of his own pocket for the flight? I think not. Indirect compensation would be considered as compensation.

I'm just implying that I think that biggles99 gets compensated one way or the other. I can't imagine that biggles99 would actually PAY to do this flight without having any other incentive. Ìf there's an economical incentive the pilot can't really claim "cost sharing".

A Swedish company selling beds had an offer "buy a bed and get a free helicopter ride". At the time they did not have an AOC. The CAA cracked down on it considering the flights to be commercial because you needed to buy a bed in order to get the flight. It's not like the flights are for everyone. The compensation is made through the money paid for the bed.

Anyhow, I should reiterate that I think that it really sounds as a great experience to fly with on the ferry flight. What I don't think is that it's true that biggles99 in the end needs to pay out of his own pocket to do this flight.

[fuktifino]

Biggles69,

i have done this trip a few times before and just in case you plan to use Hof EDQM as a refuel stop they dont have avgas at the minute! Our usual route is Lydd(EGMD), Bonn Hangelar(EBKB) very helpful people there too. Hof(EDQM) which as i say has no avgas until april so i would suggest maybe Karlovy Vary(LKKV) in Czech rep. and then direct to Brno. You probably have your route sorted but this may be of help. Hope ye have a safe journey and enjoy!

[biggles99]

Hi Fuktifino,

you should be called Fukmiudoono.

thanks for the advice, those stops aren't on our planned route, but you comments are noted and gratefully received.

and thank you to everyone else for the support and wise words.

We are all pilots and we make up a very small percentage of the population as a whole: this back-biting and bitching should stop. It is sad and a trifle pathetic.

Yours, trying to keep the peace,

Big Ls.

[nigelh]

Biggles . I only started on the rules for a laugh :eek: Believe me if you were in any other machine i would go like a shot . I have only flown down to S of France a few times and know it will be fun and i agree an excellent way for a pilot , new or with hrs, to open his horizons and learn whilst not in a formal lesson . I personally would try to get the WHOLE cost of the trip but thats me :ok::ok: Anyway sorry for stirring := I hope you have a nie trip nigelh

[Cullear1]

well guys did you make the trip? how was it? weather, scenery, ATC, customs and all that good stuff? did a nice new ppl go along for the experience? I hope someone got the benefit of such experience on this trip. let us know. thanks

[Gypsy_Air]

Yes, we made the trip, and it was fantastic!
Weather: very varied, and absolutely awful at times, to the point that the trip actually took three days.
Scenery: Gorgeous, like flying across a christmas card.
ATC: Very nice and helpful. (Though the accents made things interesting.)
Customs: No problem.
Well, I don't know about nice, :E but yes, I am a new PPL. I had 84 hours when we left, I've now got 91.
I learned a lot, and it was certainly the most interesting flying I've ever done (so far!).

[Cullear1]

I am glad to hear that. Do you have any pics? do you plan to do your cpl/h or is the flying only for a hobby? either I am sure that the flight you made will have given you some very different views to flying a 44 and to flying in general that you may have had previously.

[Gypsy_Air]

No, I don't have any pics, but the guys do. Perhaps Biggles99 will be posting some at some point.
I intend to do my CPL and IR as soon as I have the money, but for now I'm stuck at university for a while. I'm hoping that flying will be my career, but I know it's a difficult industry to get into.

[zigsta]

Hi Biggles,
I Would have loved to join you but extremely busy at work this coming week. If there's any future trips or if this 44 trip is delayed by a week or so then count me in.

[biggles99]

As Gypsy Air has said already, it was a fabulous trip.

The route was basically 110 degrees all the way.

Tuesday

Bristol (well very near there) depart 07:15
Calais arrive 10:30 local. Weathered in there all day due fog and rain and drizzle. Landing fee 4 quid

Wednesday leave Calais 10:30

Refuel Bonn (EDKB Bonn Hangellar,the small one, not the International Airport) A super airfield, puts our GA fields to shame. Landing fee 7 quid, I think.

Refuel Karlovy Vary, LKKV. Serious snow here, minus 7. Everyone ever so helpful, they changed the active runway to make it easy for us and put the lights on. Landing fee 10 quid.

Arrived Brno early evening. Weathered in again 15 NM, 8 minutes to go. On debating whether to continue journey or wait until the morning, learnt new Czech expression from the local HEMS pilot: "It is not a good thing to pull the Devil's tail." We decide to stay put. The beer was superb.

Thursday, landed Brno International 09:30, ATC happy, and relaxed. It's more like landing at Lydd than landing at Stansted, despite it being a Ryanair destination. There's no "handling" and the landing fee was 30 quid. New owners over-joyed at the condition of the aircraft they had just bought.

Blagged an aerobatic sortie in a Zlin with one of the Czech Republic's most experienced pilots. Awesome.

Ryanair-ed it back home. More detail and pictures available by request!!

Big Ls.

[R44-pilot]

I'd love some pics too please!

[Cullear1]

Hey there Big Ls (what does "Big Ls" mean?) sounds like a wonderful wee trip for u? Im sure your pilot has a few tales to not tell! tehe ;-) please post some pics. Is it not just wonderful to get a guy with 84 hours and have him take a trip across a part of Europe that he otherwise may not have made for one reason or another, and let him see that while a heli is always capable of biting your ass they are also so much fun and open so many doors if you let the spirit of adventure just sneak a look at what might be?

[1helicopterppl]

Be interested to know reg of 44 & of course see those pics, sounds a great delivery !