Stapleford Flight Centre - ab Initio

[Mach086]

I'm hearing really good things about this place and reading past threads, I haven't read anything that would put me off doing the course there.

However i do want to ask one thing though which I couldn't find. Naturally, the high profile players are the likes of OAT, CTC et al. Now these schools not only have the maths/physics/PILAPT and interview but also have a group session where you get into teams.

From what I have read on sfc website and past threads, they do not seem to do this. Is this a disadvantage as it would be good to know if you would pass these type of social test that apparently quite a few airlines do?

Also, there are many threads on preparing for the Cabair/OAT/CTC tests in order to get into the school but I could not find any informatation for SFC.
Do they do the usual Maths/Physics and PILAPT test?

Any help would be appreciated. And before you ask yes, I will be paying them a visit and will be asking the exact same things. It would just be nice to get some current views/ideas about the place.

Thanks guys

[Mach086]

Hi,

Thanks for that information - even though it didn't answer a single one of my questions.

I've already been through an airline sponsorship selection. Passed Maths/Physics with flying colours - not really something to boast about having done an Aeronautical Engineering degree. I also passed the PILAPT - 10 years of Flight Sim helped!

Passed the initial interview, but failed the final airline selection interview.

This was 2 years ago. I could have joined the school but at the time, I wanted the added security of a "possible" job at the end of it. Now, I'm planing on doing it all myself.

I certainly am not going to spend £175 (world's biggest con IMHO) to see whether I can still add 1+1, know what is the atomic number in the periodic table, and keep a pair of cross hairs in the middle of a screen.

I just wanted some information as to what type of tests SFC do and plus information on the other questions I asked. I don't need practice questions on long division and what is Newtons 2nd law.

[student88]

Dear Mach086,

Sorry about that mix-up. Last time I checked I wasn’t a mind reader; if you included all that additional information in your original post I probably wouldn't have given you that answer. Oops!

For someone who has no clue about their ability, £175 is a bargain which could save themselves thousands of pounds worth of debt with no chance of getting a job. World’s biggest con I think not. As for your description of the GAPAN assessment, it's probably a lot more in depth than the skills assessment you once attended with FlyBe/Cabair.

SFC don't have any initial skills assessment to begin training with them. You fill out a basic application form and give Lisa Green some cash. Unfortunately, they can’t afford to be picky who they train due to the generally low number of students in comparison to their competitors.
You’ve been through the stresses and strains of University and have clearly come out of it a well rounded individual who'll work fine in a pressurised environment. I’m sure you'll have no trouble taking on the amount of work you have ahead of you, I can see all that uni-life social interaction had done wonders for your interpersonal skills.

Looking forward to seeing you around Stapleford or possibly on the ski slope!

S88:ok:

[Nashers]

stapleford dont do tests like other flight schools do. however during training, they are honest with their students and tell them about their ability. i know of a couple of people who were told not to waste their money and give up before wasting their money.

[Reluctant737]

You guys have got to calm down a LOT before you join the big boys on the FD :ok:

[Mach086]

Reluctant 737/ Student88.

Thats the problem with writing. What you say can be percieved as being flippant/arrogant/or stressed. Apologies student88 - didn't mean for my response to sound like I was having a go at you. And thank you for still replying and giving me some useful information. I'm in a lttle bit of a rush at present but if its ok, i'd like to PM you for a ittle more detail. - Sorry once again if I gave the impression I was having a go.

Nashers - i'm surprised at that way of working. Imagine they started struggling during the CPL or IR part - wouldn't they be a little annoyed at the amount of money they paid up to that point of being told "forget it"? They could have spent upto 11 grand by then. maybe more.

[Reluctant737]

That's usually why it can be surprising meeting somebody for the first time in person who you knew of originally on the net. It's funny how we as humans make stereotypes...

Best of luck with whatever you decide, it's a lot of fun :ok:

[student88]

No need to apologise. You're exactly right, it's very easy to read with the wrong tone in mind.

Reluctant737 - from working in airline operations and with crew either side of the flight deck door, many times in the flight deck with those 'big boys' you talk about, I can tell from that comment that you're either as sarcastic as me or you really are a Top Gun kinda pilot :ok: keep on saving those lives one flight at a time dude! :p

[Vone Rotate]

Mach086,

This may sound really negative but I would say that most the schools you mentioned have these assessment days as you pay for them. Despite what they tell you they are there to make money...and lots of it!

I have done my CPL/ME-IR at Stapleford and the training is first class.

Don't get sucked into the trap of thinking just because you have an entrance test and wear a uniform during training you get a better service.

Just to add, I failed the on-line Cabair example test a few years ago when I was looking around. I got 92% average for my ATPL exams with first time passes and first time pass on my CPL, ME and IR.

Go visit the schools and decide for your self. (Providing they don't charge you to look round)....:ok:

[Reluctant737]

Naww I'm just sick of seeing people on here trying to get one up on one another, it reminds me of playsk00l! Some guys need to take a chill pill, I can think of one or two in particular on this forum. Unfortunately I've run out... can't seem to find a dealer anywhere... oh well, happy days!

Ad

[Nashers]

i know of one person who was told on ppl level that he should give up. another one during his CPL

a paper test will not tell you if you are any good at flying the aircraft. one person i know is a VERY smart guy and knew everything about anything. very nice guy to talk to and had a great high paying job. unfortunalty could not understand the IR very well and spent double the money other students did. he did pass in the end though.

there are some parts of flying that people get right away and other parts some will never get. some schools do the interviews and all just to make it look good and others do it as they just dont have a ability to take everyone on so can be picky.

stapleford is a busy airfield with loads of students but at the end of the day you have to remember that if you run an airfield and tell someone you will not train them, they will just go somewhere else where someone will take their money. they are all in it for the money at the end of the day.

[student88]

reluctant737 - exactly right, this place can be extremely competitive at times. A lot is said here that would certainly never be said face to face in real conversation! Don't feel I've been trying to get one up on anyone - educations the name of the game for me.

Besides, it's a well known fact - if you can land on Stapleford's 22/04 you can land anywhere in the world. How do you reckon Sullenberger got so good?

[Reluctant737]

A lot is said here that would certainly never be said face to face in real conversation!

That hit the nail well and truly on the head :ok:

And oooh I don't know, try landing a 172 at Portland!

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p.s. I've never done it, I was going to pretend I have, but thought better of it. I'll collect my things now...

[Mikehotel152]

Sullenberger trained at Stapleford!? :eek: Wow!

Er, I'll get my coat :suspect:

I didn't do any tests before I went ab-initio with SFC. Oh, apart from a trial flying lesson elsewhere; on landing I gave myself 92% for effort...:E

[Mile High Nutcase]

I know of a guy who shouldn't be at the controls of any aircraft whatsoever. He struggled so badly on his CPL that he failed the 170A more than three times and the actual test twice.

Stapleford never gave up on him, and three instructors later, he actually passed. He is now working for an airline (no names).

I know of another guy who failed the initial test at Oxford and was told this career is not for him. I believe he is now a training captain at a major low cost airline.

the initial tests are useless. If you're determined, and have a passion of flying, nothing is impossible.

I flew at stapleford, got first time passes and 90% average in exams. Would recommend SFC to anyone and everyone.


MHN

[flyingmutant]

From memory OAA, FTE, CTC, Cabair and WAAC etc HAVE to do some form of entry assessment as it is a CAA requirement for starting an integrated source.

I imagine Stapleford don't do it as they don't have to - they are (in the eyes of the CAA) a modular training establishment, albeit a "one stop modular" school if you so choose.

[Adios]

Mach086,

While no aptitude test is foolproof, it's hard to argue that they should be done away with, as some seem to be doing here. They have worked damn well for the military for many years. I suspect they prevent a whole lot of people from wasting time and money and they probably put off a smaller number who could have succeeded if an aptitude test hadn't taken the wind out of their sails. I don't think GAPAN's testing would add anything you don't already know about yourself.

What you will find is that it is primarily Integrated courses that start with an assessment. Stapleford is a modular course and the PPL being module one is a pretty darn good aptitude test. It won't necessarily tell you if you are a total zero in the personality department and have no chance of getting an airline job if you do finish the training, but you seem self aware enough to answer the employability question yourself. If not, Ppruners won't shy away from calling you a tool if you come across as one! You will have seen it happens to others by now if you've been reading here any length of time.

The only Modular course I know of that requires an Assessment is PTC in Waterford, Ireland.

[Poose]

Aptitude tests are just statistic to aid the selection of pilots.
Someone once told me that the RAF Aptitude test is geared, as is the FAA test towards passing a Fast Jet OCU. Predicted capacity to cope with workloads, reaction times etc. The AAC test is loaded differently, more of the 'pat your head rub your stomach' stuff, than the 'cat-like' reactions.

Read into the civilan schools tests what you will... I and many others have found CTC test harder than the RAF. It's not proven, but I've heard rumours that the CTC test has a higher standard than the RAF. I would imagine the logic being, that they, as a business need to be passing superheroes/astronauts on to the airlines. It makes business sense, the airlines will keep knocking on their door, then.

Also, a lot of these schools like to brag about their '100% Pass Rates'... Not going to get those with someone who is a little slower on the uptake...

Either way, it's just a statistic. If you fail, you fail. That school loses your business!

I failed the RAF Pilot Aptitude test in 1997, but was given a Flying Scholarship to 'improve' it. I got rated 'above average', did the extra hours for my PPL (Passed Skills Test 1st time.) went back two years later and screwed it up by a gnat's whisker. Came away thinking I wasn't fit to fly anything...

Don't take it personally if you don't pass, just go somewhere else.

I'd say have a trial lesson at you local club. See if you like it, more importantly! Maybe get your PPL? Modular is the most sensible route at the minute...

Good luck! :ok:

[scallaghan]

Hi

I am at stapleford at the moment just over half way through the IR.

I have found them to be very good and have had the same instructor through out apart from one lesson.

All places have advantages / disadvantages, so have a good look around to make up your mind. I couldnt afford integrated at Oxford as I have family and need to work :) , so modular was my path.

Stapleford is a small airfield and radio only, you are straight up in the air off to Southend or Cambridge to do the approaches in the aircraft. Some other airfields such as Bournemouth, you can find yourself at the hold waiting for sometime, costing extra money. All the sim sessions are based on Cranfield as its the test centre.

Good luck

[Mikehotel152]

All the sim sessions are based on Cranfield as its the test centre

I take it you are refering to Bournemouth or some other FTO! Stapleford has two DA42 FNPTII sims for the IR and a generic ALSIM used for the CPL and MCC. They do use the Cranfield Test Centre, but that means you get to choose your route for the IR Skills Test in advance. :)

Much as I like Stapleford, it is possible to have some less satisfactory experiences. I had 5 different IR Instructors! :rolleyes: But to be fair, the flipside of that disruption was that I didn't have breaks in my training and each Instructor gave me tips that the others hadn't.

MH152

[john.o.pilot]

i heard good things about this school. Few guys from my ATPL theory were very satisfied. Also heard Cabair (integrated was good, i.e. not one at bournemouth) and OAT. I didn't do training there but if was starting again my first choice would be Cabair or OAT if I had money, alternatively SFC. I did my training with instructors who were time builders and it was VERY messy experience. Won't mention school as this thread is about SFC courses. As i said, didnt train there but heard all good.

Flying with different instructors is useful as you get more experience. I had two instructors on my course, one sim and another for aircraft. Failed ir exam big time. Examiner blamed it on instructors and they blamed it on the examiner. My £15k was long gone by this point.

[AI101]

I Did all my training there and was mostly with the same instructor all the way from ppl to CPL and then a different instructor for ME/IR, I did the entrance exam at cranfield (cabair) and was told to stop wasting my time.

I did my ATPL ground exams at London Met and met a guy who did his flying training at cab air and then went back to them to do his IR, i know work for an Ailine in Europe in the right seat where as the guy from cabair is still looking for a job.

So i guess it doesnt matter where you learn long as you are commited to the training.

I think Stapleford was and still is a good scholl and a lot cheaper then the rest for giving you the same licence at the end of the day.

[Mach086]

Guys,

I thouroughly appreciate all your responses thus far. Thanks for taking the time out to give me some information.