Which flight school in South Africa?

[alpha_lima_xray]

Hey All,

Hope you are all keeping well.

Im soon going to be heading to South Africa to attend flight school, since south africa is the only affordable place for me right now.
I was wondering which is the best flight school down there?
Ive got my eye on 43 air school so far, have some friends who were there, heard alot about it. Sounds good, but is it the right choice?
Any help will be grand guys, thanks in advance!

Alpha Lima Xray :}

[Hobgoblin]

Check out Cape Flying Services. Lots of people slag them off, but I have personal experience of learning to fly there. The people are good, Gerald and I got on well, he runs a good school. The aeroplanes are well maintained, the atmosphere is relaxed without being lax or unsafe, and of course the scenery is amazing.

If you get the chance take a ride in ZS-MDL. A really cool Apache - one of the few still in existence - I don't know if there is still another one in SA. They used to operate with ZS-DSC (DogSh1tCharlie) but I don't know what happened to it. MDL is a great ride though.

Have fun down there:ok:

[Gaius Westman]

Two digits:

43!!!

[Leezyjet]

Do a search for Algoa in PE. Lots of good reviews of that club, and it's at a proper airport with proper ATC too.

:ok:

[Dave1234]

43 is a good flight school from what I have heard - however - they do have a very good marketing department behind them, which must work very hard to make their prices more justifiable, as you can certainly find cheaper places to train. Check out APTRAK and Algoa in PE, or FTC in George, for instance.
Sorry Hobgoblin, but I can't agree with you on CFS - I'm not sure when you were there, but things must have changed since then. I have just returned back to the UK after doing my PPL with them and it was a bit of a struggle quite frankly - aircraft servicability is fairly poor, ZS-PPD has lost it's tailplane twice in 3 months (fortunately on the ground - happened again today), a Jabiru lost it's wheel on landing, another jab blew an oil seal, an manifold blew on a cherokee straight out of MPI, and the Apache, undoubtedly a classic aircraft, has returned from the holding point of runway 29 more times than I can remember with mag drops - all in the time I was there, so there are a few questions about maintenance that need answering quite frankly.
It is also the only school I am aware of that requires up front payment for all courses, as opposed to the more common 'pay as you fly' system.
I also got the distinct impression that the management was not entirely focussed on the job at hand in terms of keeping up with the admin - their only servicable cherokee was grounded for a week as they let its airworthiness certificate expire, and most students were definitely regarded as cash cows rather than clients......but hey, I am happy with the standard of training I received and I do have a PPL - but I was rather luckier than most I suspect.
There are many good FTO's available in SA, but don't believe their web pages as gospel truth, do a bit of digging and be sure of your priorities - I am returning in may for my CPL and am going through the same process!
Good luck :ok:

[jbayfan]

43 has a great reputation but there are plenty of other schools in SA that offer an excellent flight training experience for less.

The primary residential schools are 43, Progress, Aptrac and SAFTA. FTS also offers an excellent product and is owned by SAA pilots, as are SAFTA and FTC in George. All these schools are at the coast, except for SAFTA and FTS.

HOWEVER, watch out for CFS in George. They are ripping off pilots, mainly foreigners, of thousands of dollars. They make you pay up front and then frustrate the students by not having enough instructors or aircraft and when the student leaves the school they keep most of their money. At one point they had 50 students and only one instructor, excluding the owner who seems to spend more time fishing than at the school.

[Hobgoblin]

Sorry to hear that you had trouble down there Dave and yes it's been a while since I was at CFS.

I have always found Gerald to be an approachable, and fair guy and if I had the same issues when I was there I would have had no hesitation in discussing this with him.

True, I also paid for my flying up front but if there was ever any disagreement between me and Gerald regarding the quality of the service I am getting from them I was welcome to take my money and leave. He made that very clear during discussions I had with him, adding that I would only be charged for what services I had availed myself of. No "administration fees" just because I decided that I wanted to go with another flight school.

At the end of the day you are his client and keeping you happy is what gets him his paycheque.

I have had some experiences with a different flight school in South Africa where things go very differently. Aeroplanes are fine and well maintained but the level of personal service is abysmal. What decided me never to return there is the fact that one of the owners had sworn at, and humiliated an instructor who is after all his employee, within my hearing and the hearing of everone else in the clubhouse. I remember thinking to myself that if he spoke like that to me, employer or not he'd be picking up his own teeth from the furthest reaches of the room in very short order. I guess he could see from my face what I was thinking as he studiously avoided me from then on. His partner was not much better.

Clearly, any client who flew with them was just a goose to be plucked as quickly and cleanly as possible.

Against my better judgement I even attempted to book further flying with them and as such took the time to write a polite email requesting an estimate and cost breakdown from his partner. She never even had the common decency to respond to my email and had the instructor who I had previously flown with respond with a woolly undertaking that they would give me the best price possible.

I consider that rude, as a simple email stating that she would pass my details on to So-and-So and he would be dealing with it would have been the minimum that I would have expected. In fact, I feel that if I am planning on giving you R150,000 or thereabouts cash up front (at the time it was about £15,000), you could take the trouble to deal with me personally.

Needless to say I never bothered dealing with them again, and someone else got my money.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: It's your money and you deserve to get the best possible value for it. If you don't, then it's time to vote with your feet. Simply take your money where it will be appreciated.

Whichever school you decide on make sure you enjoy yourself and learn as much as possible.

[EladElap]

Well Dave1234, am also really sorry to hear that you'd not recommend CFS to other potential clients. Yes aircraft servicability has been an unfortunate issue, but it's one of the schools THAT NEVER defers snags or scimps on maintanence. Unfortunately as many other ATO's will tell you that operating tin aeries made in the 60's and 70's is getting more and more difficult to do as they age. Oh also interestingly, CFS has been training aspirant pilots for over 30 years, over 70 000 hours of training without even a single stitch i.e. no accidents where anyone walked away with a few bruises and scratches. So safety record is definitely something you should be looking for when looking for a flight school.

I did my PPL straight to Instructors there, and still currently instruct there part time in between contract. The great thing about CFS is that you are not treated as a number. The owners and managers are approachable and really do have the students best interests at heart.

There are many fantastic schools out there in SA, 43rd is definitely one of them, but it's not for everyone. (particularly those without trust funds or Amex black cards!). Best bet would be to go and see the schools yourself and walk around chat to the other students and see what they have to offer you. If you want a list of things to check pm me by all means.

Regards

[jbayfan]

Contact me and I will give you the names of at least ten students who between them are out of pocket by well over R1 million due to CFS and their "refund" policy, including one who passed all her CPL subjects first time on the same sitting and yet is still owed R90,000 by CFS when they could not complete her CPL and she was forced to finish at a flight school in Joburg.

If the CAA was more than just a safety oversight organisation they would have shut this school down a long time ago.

As for aircraft serviceability:

ZS-PPD has lost it's tailplane twice in 3 months (fortunately on the ground - happened again today), a Jabiru lost it's wheel on landing, another jab blew an oil seal, an manifold blew on a cherokee straight out of MPI, and the Apache, undoubtedly a classic aircraft, has returned from the holding point of runway 29 more times than I can remember with mag drops

[Hobgoblin]

This sort of thing has been done to death on this forum and I'm afraid serves no good purpose.

Verbally fighting over who did what and which flight school is the worst in our own biased opinions is not helping the guy who asked us to recommend a flight school. He didn't ask which flight school we wouldn't recommend.

As no doubt you will have noticed I did not mention the name of the flight school (may I add the only one in SA that I wouldn't recommend to my worst enemy) that I did not enjoy. I also don't intend to. I will tell you the names of the flight schools that I found to be good value for money, made good friends at, and enjoyed flying with. One of these was Cape Flying Services, the other, a little one-man show in Pretoria, was closed down when the owner retired soon after I'd been there. (Probably seeing me trying to land an Apache with one engine decided it for him!):E

The reason I'm not going to tell anyone which flight school I'm referring to in my previous post, i.e. the one with the foul-mouthed owner and rude partner, is because while they might not be my cup of tea they must be doing something right if they're still in business, so someone must be enjoying them. If they really are as bad as I think, then they are their own worst enemies and will go the way of all things eventually. At the end of the day I had them in my life for about 3 weeks - I certainly don't want to spend any more time on them.

While I'm sorry to hear that there are guys out there who did not enjoy their time at CFS, it doesn't change the fact that I and loads of others actually did enjoy flying there.

I guess my point is this; If a Flight Training Organisation is really good there will be lots and lots of people telling you so. If they're no good then they will be constantly in the newspapers due to accidents or near misses , their operating license will be constantly under review by CAA (who believe it or not are actually doing an okay job) and the staff will be surly, morose and unhappy.

What EladElap says regarding the age of these machines is also true. I've flown an aeroplane with busted oil lines after take-off (Cessna C150), electrical fire (Cessna C172), radio failure (PA 28 - 180) etc etc. (None of this happened at CFS though, I spent most of my time there on a little PA28-140 that flew like a streamlined anvil if you closed the throttle too early on approach) Now while this all added to the realism of the training (:eek:) I did not try to blame this on the flight school - this is one of the realities of life, stuff get old and break.

If any specific school is really that much better than everyone else in your opinion by all means tell the rest of us, if not then remember it's still only your opinion.

I have no particular axe to grind either way but seeing as alpha lima x-ray asked for an opinion on good flight schools I thought I'd stick my oar in.

Done now, thanks.

[EladElap]

Jbayfan, don't know what your vendetta against the school is. As far as the one aircraft losing it's Tailplane!!! A student picked up on a preflight that the one of the four elevator hingepins had sheared either during the previous flight or due to being left in the wind that morning without the controls ties. Now a hingepin failing certainly does not constitute a losing a tailplane.

Both aircraft that had problems post MPI has been serviced by reputable AMO's. The Jabiru had been serviced by the bloody manufacturer. So the school was the most upset as anyone about these things occuring straight out of MPI. For the record, unlike many schools the aircraft out of maintenance at CFS are test flown properly post maintenance. As far the apache coming back with Mag drops... this turned out to be the engines running too rich which meant that if we held at the holding poing the plugs ended up fowling. Net result being that the flight was cancelled as it was the safe thing to do until the plugs were cleaned properly.

SAFETY HAS NEVER been an issue at CFS. There are no short cuts taken, no cheaper routes taken, and it is one of a few companies when you go to the owner and mention a snag, no matter how big or small I get the answer "Ground the f***er". There has never been any pressure for anyone to fly aircraft at the school that a student or instructor deems unsafe. This has been mentioned every monthly safety meeting that I've attended in the past four years.

I have no financial interest in CFS, I just have a genuine attachment to the school as I believe it to be one of the best in terms of training standards and safety.

The CAA has inspected the school on numerous occasions recently and for every inspection it has come out with flying colours in terms of its maintenance and training standards.

As far as the intial poster. I strongly urge you to go and visit all your prospective options before signing anything. Also look at how long the school has been operating, there are many new "fly by night" schools out there opening up that don't end up lasting more than a few years.

[jbayfan]

I'll tell you what my beef is PaleDale:

I have met countless students ex-CFS who have lost a fortune to what, in my opinion, is blatant fraud.

I will not go into detail as to how this fraud is being perpetrated but essentially it boils down to CFS not refunding students the majority of their unused funds when they leave the school, whether out of frustration due to lack of aircraft and / or instructors, due to lack of ability or for any other reason. Any business owner can justify retaining a basic deposit but to retain over R100,000 in most cases, is plain fraud and completely unjustifiable.

And, MOST SIGNIFICANTLY in response to your question, I met the parents of two twins from India who were at CFS and who flew to South Africa to try to get GT to refund them their money. I have never seen parents of flight students so distraught and so helpless. I have seen letters from GT where he wrote to these parents and told them how pathetic their children are, in those words.

The CAA is aware of what is happening at CFS and would like to stop it, but is unable to do anything because this is a matter for the Commercial Crime Section of the SAPS.

Go to FTS, go to APTRAC, go to SAFTA, go to Sky Raiders and you will find plenty of ex-CFS students with the same story and in similiar situations, and most are foreign so not only is GT screwing over these poor foreign students, he is also screwing over all those genuine and honest South African ATO's who rely on foreign students for business and who have worked so hard to create a great reputation for flight training in SA.

My prediction, watch this space.

[negus]

I have posted many times in the past regarding how CFS works.
I was there several years ago and lost a great deal of money to that man.
I wont repeat the whole story - it's all in PPRUNE for anyone to read. All i can say is, i wasn't the only one! There were many of us from the UK who have a story to tell.
My advice; go somewhere else. There are lots of good schools down there.

[EladElap]

I really don't understand what you think to gain by slagging off competition. As said I have NOTHING directly to do with CFS financially. I just stepped in when I heard utter bollocks being said on here about the safety of CFS. That is something that I take personally as I was the Air Safety Officer for two years and I know for a fact that everything, and I mean EVERYTHING was done by the books. I cannot comment on what contracts certain clients signed, as I had nothing to do with that side of the school.

The parts that I did, namely the operations, the flight training, the maintenance, etc, I can say were very good. I have instructed in JHB and have been abysmally disappointed by many students that I have flown with up there, some coming from a certain instution at rand airport too. Guys who have a so called PPL who couldn't maintain straight and level on the downwind!! I am generalising here and opening myself up, but In my two months of instructing up there I failed more ppl renewals than I did in two years in George. I have no doubt that there are great training instutions up there, ones that don't sign students off for an intial solo who can't even stay conscious on final appraoch for example.

This Carte Blanche saga has been waiting to come out for many many years, and fully support the CAA shutting down these unscrupulous characters. It is time for ATO's to start standing together and doing proper background checks on the students whom they are training. I mean asking for copies of the students training files before starting to instruct them. Putting aside this crap of constantly slagging competition off and having the maturity of all working towards a safer and more standardised way of training.

[Hobgoblin]

Dear jbayfan and negus,

Sorry boys I felt that I had to make this observation again. Alpha Lima X-Ray asked for postive comments on which flightschool you would recommend he goes to. Not which flight school you would like to slag off, in case you didn't realise it.

I'm sorry you guys had such a bad time down there, but as I and countless others have pointed out, there were loads of other people who had good experiences too. If Gerald is such a crook as you try to make him out to be why don't you go to the police, or try to sue him. I'm sure if all the people you say were done in by him got together you could open a super class action and either get your money back or get him closed down.

Until then I'm afraid what you have looks suspiciously like a case of sour grapes. Until then in the vernacular, either put up or shut up.

[Der absolute Hammer]

jbayfan raises a very important point when he lists out the major residential schools.
If you come here to grind and work and do the licences without needing to buy cars or worry about lodging then you must short your list to residential schools only.
If that is the case then location is not as immportant as the schools facilities to make your life as easy as possible regarding commuting, eating, sleeping and even some lesiure time also.
For training itself, I would recommend FTS at Grand Central. I always use them and they instructors are all, the women also, very good. I am not so sure about their residential side of the business and especially transport.
Also I know that if you want the sea side, Flight Training College in george should be very good but again you need to ask the questions of them about the life style easing facilities which they offer. If you really are going to go straight for the commercial licences from zero - the hero from zero-then what really counts is how easy teh school can make your life outside of the lectures.
I would avoid any schools about which there has been controversy-just on principle-why must you be a gambler?

[alpha_lima_xray]

Thanks for all the info lads! :ok:
I think i have an idea of which school to stay clear of i guess..
I think im going to go with 43 or Progress.