Interesting conversation with 'Paul' at Dell

[BladePilot]

So here I am on the verge of ordering my new Dell online but I have a couple of questions and can't find the answers on their website so I call their local support number, it rings and then I get that tell tale change in tone which suggests my call will be anything but LOCAL! (OK I know I only pay the local rate but..) so a lovely female voice answers and I assume (rightly or wrongly) that I detect an Indian accent. I answer half a dozen 'scripted questions' and I'm then told I am being transferred to my 'local' home support office, funny didn't I just call my local home support number?:ugh: so anyway I eagerly anticipate the connection whilst imagining my call routing it's way halfway around the world just to end up back in a 'local' support office a few miles fom me.
'Hi this is Paul at Dell Home support how can I help you' odd that I detect another Indian accent! So we go through another half dozen scripted questions and finally get to the point where I get to ask Paul 'my local support guy' my two questions, O' but no I spoke to soon he now wants my name contact details and form of payment,
'no Paul I don't want to purchase right now over the phone I just want to ask a couple of questions the answers to which will help me decide on my system configuration and method of payment is that OK?'
so he replies with a question 'what system are you looking at'
and I reply 'well I think I may go for the new Studio XPS with the new Intel i7'
his reply 'what's that'!
my reply 'what did you just ask me what's that? you're not filling me with any confidence here Paul'
He then asks me again for my contact details and when I refuse he insists that I take his. Now this was a surprise because he gave me a local number and his personal extension number. Now being rather excited that I was actually speaking to someone 'just around the corner' I read back the number and said;
'Ah so you're actually in Anytown (place name changed to protect my anonymity) that's good to know so I'm at least talking to someone in my local support office'
and he replied 'yes I am in Anytown'
so I said 'That's reasurring because it sounded as if my original call was routed to a call centre in India'
to which he replied 'yes I am here in the call centre in India'
WTF! so I replied 'so you're not in Anytown then?'
Paul 'No'
me 'so you lied to me then when you said you were here?'
his reply 'well I do look after Anytown and the surrounding area'
so we continued 'OK Paul I just need two simple questions answered and they are: Can I pay using a debit card Switch/Maestro/Laser (not credit card) and will you ship the Studion XPS Intel i7 with Windows XP Pro as the OS'
......SILENCE.....
'hello Paul are you still there'
'yes sir give me a short minute' (now I don't know about you but what the f:mad:ck is a 'short minute as opposed to a long or normal minute?) you can tell by now my patience was wearing thin!
Then I got 'Sir did you know that if you order now with me by phone you will get your system quicker? and there will be no problems with the order'
WTF again! 'sorry Paul are you implying that if I order online it will take longer and I may have problems with my system when it arrives'
Paul 'Yes'
me 'why please explain'
Paul 'Well it's like this, some of the components you choose may not be compatable'
me 'so you're telling me that although the Dell website offers me (lets me pick and choose) those components with that system they may not work when I get it?'
Paul 'yes but I can build the sytem for you now over the phone and check that all the components you want are compatable before shipping'
me 'OK Paul before we go any further would you please just answer my questions?'
Paul 'Sorry the system tells me you can't have Windows XP Pro OS with that PC and we only accept credit cards (Master, Visa etc) we don't accept debit cards but you could aslo pay by cheque or bankers draft if you wish'
me 'Thank you Paul I'll now consider my options goodbye'
Paul 'Sir please wait one short minute (that short minute again!), can I have your contact details and also can you tell me why you don't want to order with me now? please I will be your personal 'order manager' and I will ensure that you get the system you want at the price you want and I'll have it delivered within 10 days'
me 'Paul tell me how many days on average does an order take if it's made online?'
Paul 'about 3 weeks'
me 'is that three weeks as in 21 days or 15 days?'
Paul 'maybe 15 days maybe more'
me 'thanks for all your help Paul I'll go now and consider my options if I need to I'll call you back.

Well done Dell:ok:

I am quite to happy order online and to wait the extra few days, well that's if I buy a DELL now!

[amanoffewwords]

...which is why if I were buying a new PC I would so with Novatech - not so huge as to become just-another-customer (read number).

Dell are ok as long as you don't need to deviate from the standard configure-pc-on-web-pay-receive-kit scenario. Try modifying your order after you placed or ask for a change of delivery address after you ordered and..well :ugh:

Plus I work with Dell kit all day long so the last thing I need is to see more when I get home.

amofw

[Parapunter]

I've built several machines off Novatech, never a problem with them. Cheapies for sure but priced accordingly.

[Saab Dastard]

One would have thought that it would be standard?

You haven't seen Indian wages, nor the level of education that they can require - and get - for the call centres. You don't find many degree-educated staff in UK call centres, particularly not at those wage levels, although they are rising inexorably.

SD

[Keef]

I find it depressing. I phone the helpdesk/call centre or whatever. I get Surinder or Ashok or whoever, who sounds to be a very nice person and probably has a good degree from an Indian University - but is compelled to work off a script. When I say I don't want to do that, they tell me I have to. They are just not allowed to deviate from the sequence.

Which means the call centre is no use whatever if the problem is anything other than the standard problems dreamt up by the author of the script.

"Remove/wipe and reinstall" seems the standard fix. If you say not to that, "I'm sorry, Keef, we cannot help you any further."

So I ask on PPRuNe or one of the UK techie forums instead.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

... which is why when I buy a PC I wander round to the local shop and have a chat with the sales guy, and if necessary have another chat with the guy who's going to build it for me.

They install the software I want, from a disk that I give them if that's the way it goes.

They accept any means of payment I choose to offer (although to be fair if I give them a company cheque they might not let me take the machine away until it has cleared, depending on who is on the till and how well they know me).

The machine is ready in a week or so ... unless I give them a sob story as to why I want it sooner.

And when it goes wrong ... do I hang on the phone to a call centre in India trying to get a returns number, which leaves me without the machine for another three weeks? No, I drop it into the shop on my way to work, and pick it up, fixed, on my way home.

Guess what? - it costs a little more! You get what you pay for, sometimes, service included. Your choice.

[Parapunter]

So true Gertrude, I envy that approach. I build my own & I just spent two days building my main work pc on Windows 7. Getting it all to hang to gether has been...a challenge, but I'm there or thereabouts and yet, there is no one to go to 'cept mesem if it all goes teats.

Still, assuming it works, I'm quids in.:ok:

[Blues&twos]

The worst thing about foreign call centres is that after several bad experiences, the mere sound of a foreign accent on the other end of the phone just annoys me before the call has even started. The poor sod on the other end could be the most knowledgable, helpful person in the world, but already I am primed for an argument.

The bloke I spoke to about my car insurance didn't know what a "hedge" was....my car was insured as "parked on a public road" because the farm on which I live isn't surrounded by a solid brick wall.....:ugh:

[srobarts]

My sister had some damage to her caravan, when she rang the call centre to lodge the insurance claim she was asked how many camels were in her caravan!
Apologies for thread drift.
But back to the original subject I would endorse positive views on Novatech - good experience here.

[parabellum]

I was on the 'phone yesterday to the Dell help line but I think I was talking to Penang in Malaysia!

I have found with Dell it pays to contact them by 'phone and simply say, "I want to order a new computer". That way I get a dedicated sales person, I have their name, extension number and a reference number, we then go through the basic config as shown on the internet but changing those bits I want to change, afterwards I get an email to check the config and reply to, one more 'phone call to arrange payment and that is it.

Maybe I have just been lucky but I have always found Dell to be pretty good.

[preduk]

You don't find many degree-educated staff in UK call centres

You would be amazed at the qualifications in the call centre I work in. I would say that around 70% of the employees in the building I work in are either working towards or have achieved some form of higher education qualification.

I don't work on the phones, the building I work in is just mainly a call centre who do most of their recruitment at the local Universities.

[Hyph]

so he replies with a question 'what system are you looking at'
and I reply 'well I think I may go for the new Studio XPS with the new Intel i7'
his reply 'what's that'!

Nothing new there.

I remember once talking to Dell technical support people about a new Dell computer they had no idea even existed. Seems that Dell decided to save money by not training their staff on new products. :ok:

[Ancient Observer]

I was interested in these mixed Dell experiences. About 5 years ago I worked at lhr for a bigco that was wall to wall Dell. Everything there seemed to work fine, so I bought one for my home pc. Huh! It took hours on the phone to even ask a question, and some of their advice was likely to kill me - such as "first open up the computer....". It turned out that I had a lucky contact - a friend of a friend was on the Dell UK and NI top team, and she managed to fix it for me, after their attempt at a replacement had also crashed. I have no idea why they can provide good machines at the bigco, but awful ones for many punters. Now they are closing their assembly line in Ireland, I imagine things will gety worse for UK punters.

[Jofm5]

Its nice talking about the farming out of call centres but... not doing so adds a premium on the product (I am no way justifying whether it is right or wrong I just work for a telco the cost of farming calls out to india is little more than to a suburb of london, however remotely the labour is much cheaper).


Anyways - with the I7, there are some good deals - scan, novatech and a few others are going for around the £1100 mark at the moment in quite hi spec builds.

If I may be so bold as to suggest the best magazine to keep up to date with this and their website is Custom PC | The essential read for PC hardware, games and modding (http://www.custompc.co.uk/) - this is more geared towards your power users for high tier games/processing. But gives great advice on budget alternatives.

Follow their advice and you can get a i920 overclocked to over 4ghz air cooled for small money compared to buying higher clocked versions of the i7.

I am not an expert on nehalem series but have followed it since before it was released - if anyone wants an unambiguous view feel free to pm me or ask here.

Cheers

[BladePilot]

JoFm5
Thanks for your thoughts. I ordered my Dell online about a week or so back.
Intel Core i7 920 (2.66Ghz 8MB Cache, 4.8GT/sec) 8GB 1067Mhz DDR3 Tri Channel memory 750GB Serial ATA (7200rpm) Hard Drive, 512MB ATI Radeon HD4850 Graphics card with Vista Ultimate 64bit as the OS.
I wouldn't attempt overclocking the i7 I want it to last a while rather than burn itself up prematurely besides with the new architecture you lose the FSB which was always the bottleneck for processing speed.
I'm looking forward to taking delivery of the new PC soon and will update this thread with my impressions of the system when I've had it running for a couple of days.:)

[terrain safe]

How did you get 8GB memory? I thought DDR3 was in multiples of 3 or have they solved this now?

[Jofm5]

terrain safe:
How did you get 8GB memory? I thought DDR3 was in multiples of 3 or have they solved this now?


With the i7 the multiples of 3 is for optimum adressibility but is by no means a restriction. The i7 MMU (Memory Management Unit) has the capability to adress 3 Sims in a single clock cycle due to the width of the memory bus. Putting in an number of sims not divisible by 3 will force the MMU to revert back to writing to each individual one at a time - thus taking three times as long to write the same data. In day to day use this is negligable and would only be really noticeable should you really hammer the CPU in a memory bound operation - true life is that the CPU spends most of its time waiting for the HDD as it is the slowest component (measured in milliseconds rather than nano seconds for memory).


BladePilot:
Intel Core i7 920 (2.66Ghz 8MB Cache, 4.8GT/sec) 8GB 1067Mhz DDR3 Tri Channel memory 750GB Serial ATA (7200rpm) Hard Drive, 512MB ATI Radeon HD4850 Graphics card with Vista Ultimate 64bit as the OS.
I wouldn't attempt overclocking the i7 I want it to last a while rather than burn itself up prematurely besides with the new architecture you lose the FSB which was always the bottleneck for processing speed.
I'm looking forward to taking delivery of the new PC soon and will update this thread with my impressions of the system when I've had it running for a couple of days


Sounds like a nice system - not sure about the ATI card as am an NVIDIA man myself but I hear the 48xx are one good card.

About the overclock, the I7 is a new breed in that it can fully step on speed so when overclocked if the temprature starts to rise the processor will automatically shut down individual cores etc to manage its heat and longetivity. 4ghz is a pretty radical overclock but I mentioned that to just say what it was capable of. Keep a note of those forums as you may wish to clock it up a bit in the future which all X58 chipset motherboards (required for i7) can do nicely at the moment.

Even without an overclock the benchmarks for the i7 see a circa 25% improvement over an equivalent speed core 2 - so sould last a while anyways.

Enjoy - would be good to hear how it is as am thinking of building one myself soon.

[BladePilot]

I ordered by new Dell XPS 435MT online on the 8th February 2009. I had a couple of 'dry runs' on the ordering system trying one or two different configurations and I was impressed by how the online system warned me if any components weren't compatable (I thought only Paul could do that?) I finally decided on my optimum configuration and proceeded to the online checkout, chose my payment method (CC) and pressed the 'buy now' button. All done I retired for a well earned cup of coffee.
The following day Monday 9th February 2009 I recieved an email form Dell advising my order had been processed and my system was in production as of the 9th and that the estimated delivery date was the 17th February 2009 (on or before that date), Wow! so it looked like I would get my new PC within 10 days (I thought only Paul could do that for me?).
I studied the Dell site in great detail and read all of the FAQ's regarding the process which would deliver my shiny new desktop.
I eagerly checked my email and my order status at www.Dell where it seemed that my system had become stuck in the build phase. I gave up checking my order status after 3 days and resigned myself to the idea that they would send me an email as soon as my system was on it's way (on or before the 17th).
Nothing heard so I checked my order status again on Saturday 14th and shock horror I noticed that the delivery date had slipped by one week and was now the 24th (on or before this date) in addition the new message stated that my order was in production as of the 14th? so had they been lying to me when they had originally stated that my order had been in production as of the 9th? After a cup of tea and an hour or so to calm down and think about things I decided to send an unhappy customer email to Dell (couldn't call them becasue it was the weekend). just after I despatched said email I recieved an automated email (not in response to my email, they must have passed in the ether!) from Dell apologising that my delivery date had changed and this was due to an unprecedented demand for this particular product.... Bull:mad:!
On Monday 16th February I recieved an email from a nice lady with an Indian name telling me exactly what the automated email had told me but failing to answer any of my specific points, in other words a scripted response.
Again I resigned myself to the fact that it was probably not worth engaging in a lengthy email exchange as all I would get would be scripted replies so I settled in to wait fully expecting to recieve another delay message a week later.
On Tuesday evening (yesterday) I opened my email to discover a scheduled delivery alert from Dell, WTF I thought. It was generated at 1631hrs and informed me that my system had been despatched and would be delivered sometime between 0800hrs and 1700hrs on the 18th February 2009...Today!
Now it's just as well that I am self employed so I quickly sent in a day off request to myself, authorised it myself and gave myself the day off in order that I could be at home to take delivery. How the heck do Dell expect anyone who is working full time at some company to react to a delivery alert giving such short notice?
My new system arrived this morning about an hour ago and I've carefully unpacked it to find that everything is there and it looks absolutely fantastic. The only thing that gets me is that it is even smaller than my existing Dell yet it packs so much more power!

I'm going to have a cup of coffee and read the manual before beginning the set up. I'll let you know how I get on.

Watch this space.

[amanoffewwords]

I used to work for Dell as an installer and the delivery date shuffle you mention happened all the time - I guess it's something to do with the availability of components.

re: read the manual before beginning the set up.

I've been in IT support a long time but I've never heard of this technique :8

To answer your last question, if you're not in you get the courier to re-schedule a delivery :)

[Jofm5]

Good that it has finally come.

Not sure where in the world you are but if your in the UK Dell may have been holding off because of the fluctuation in he dollar. If you look at DABS,SCAN and MISCO their prices of the I7 chip has gone up since its launch in November because the Pound has weakened against the dollar so badly. If your machine was coming from Ireland they were probably holding off alot of customers until they could buy a batch of the processors at a price where they still make money. I would not be surprised if you went to the Dell site now and specced the same machine it would be more expensive to reflect this.

Have fun - am tad jealous at the mo hehe

Cheers

[BladePilot]

Updates can be found in thread:

'Committed XP Pro user needs reassurance about Vista'

:ok: