Jet 2/OAA

[rogerg]

Rumour has it that, amongst other things, Jet 2 will source all future cadet pilots from OAA.

[bajadj]

kind of fits, Jet2's fleet are almost as old as oxfords senecas.

[gliderone]

Incidentally, does anyone happen to know what Jet2 mean by P2 hours on their online application form? Do you think they're referring to dual time or true P2 (co-pilot) time?

Any ideas? Ta.

[no sponsor]

Historically, Jet2 took its pilots from a variety of sources, including OAA, but also PAT (where I went), plus the military etc and other TP carriers, such as Eastern. It has meant the airline has a very good mix of experience, even in the ranks of its F/Os, ranging from the inexperienced to those waiting for command upgrades.

At the moment, although the airline has been interviewing, a decision was made to only take Type Rated individuals for this coming season. This has left many of those who work in OPS and other airline positions, who already have their ATPL(F) bitterly disappointed, particularly for those who have already attended (and paid) for the JOC/Advanced Handling course at CTC.

I hope those who have shown remarkable commitment to the airline in non-flying positions are given their chance prior to others external to the company.

[fabbe92]

I was discussing this cadett thing with a Ryanair captain and he said that he finds it very strange that companies like JET2 or Cityjet does this.

He means that big national carriers like BA or LH are so big that they can say that we only take pilots from these schools etc. But he doesn´t think that companies like JET2 and Cityjet are so important that they can do so. What he means is who are they to say this?


:ok:

[Artie Fufkin]

fabbe92, whilst I was at OAA, BA (the only UK airline to take integrated students only at cadet entry level) said the reason for this was that they had experienced "significant training failures" from pilots on the Self Improver route (the fore runner of Modular) at cadet entry level. Their decision had nothing to do with status. So they say.

Maybe smaller airlines can experience similar problems and make similar decisions? In Jet2's case it would be surprising as (if you check Oxford's website) they haven't taken anyone from Oxford for a few years.

[Flying Squid]

But he doesn´t think that companies like JET2 and Cityjet are so important that they can do so.


Hmmmmmm well regardless of the economy, I don't think you can say that companies such as Jet2 and CityJet are more or less important than larger carriers such as BA. Lets not forget who actually owns CityJet!!! They can recruit newbies from whoever they see fit and now more than ever. It's an employers market at the moment and will continue to be so for a number of years to come. However much all of us on here wish it wasn't!!!:*

Jet2 have historically taken low hour FO's from PAT nd OAA but this could change at the drop of a hat. It only takes one or two dodgy newbies from an FTO to get them looking for a new favourite provider.

[tocken]

I think that Jet2 recruiting solely from OAA is quite sad for all the modular guys. The modular route dosen't produce inferior pilots to OAA, quite the contrary. Everyone should have a fair crack. What will be next....only ex RAF need apply.. for the love of God I sincerely hope not:eek:

[ford cortina]

Assuming that this is true, and it is currently just a rumour:ok:

[flyingmutant]

It's true!!

Jet2 and Oxford Aviation seal five-year training deal-04/02/2009-Air Transport Intelligence news (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/02/04/322092/jet2-and-oxford-aviation-seal-five-year-training-deal.html)

UK budget carrier Jet2 and Oxford Aviation Academy have signed a five-year deal covering simulator and ab initio pilot training.

Under the agreement the academy will relocate a Boeing 737 Classic full-flight simulator to its training centre at Woodford, Manchester. The device is expected to be fully operational from August. Jet2 has six UK bases, including four in northern England, so the simulator move will cut its crew training costs.

Jet2 managing director Ian Doubtfire says: "This will avoid long travelling times for our crews, provides the best possible training conditions and will ensure we maintain our high standards of safety."

The airline has also agreed to source its cadet pilots from the academy's ab initio pilot training programme. Oxford's full-time first officer training programme, which is aimed at airline recruits, includes elements at Oxford Airport in the UK and Goodyear Airport in the USA.

Oxford Aviation Academy emerged from the merger of GE Commercial Aviation Training, SAS Flight Academy, Oxford Aviation Training, BAE Systems Regional Aircraft's training centre and air crew specialist Parc Aviation.

I don't think this will be the last airline exit from CTC to Oxford. The Easyjet deal with CTC is up for renewal within the next 4-5months, and I am told a move to OAA is on the cards.

[sharpclassic]

Where does it state that they will source their cadet pilots exclusively from OAT? Nowhere.

They will take cadets from there but it doesn't mean OAT cadets will be the ONLY cadets they take on.

[flyingmutant]

There is a LOT MORE to OAA than the ab-initio training facility at Oxford/Kidlington Airport.

The OAA group now incorporates this as well as the old GECAT and SAS type rating/advance training centres. It just means for there ongoing crew training and experienced crew recruitment will now be done through the OAA group. There is also the option for them to take newly qualified bods from Kidlington.

[Adios]

Jet2 hasn't hired anyone from OAA for several years, probably because they've been getting their low hour pilots from CTC. Even though this press release doesn't say OAA will be their sole source of low hour ab-initio cadets, their past behaviour seems to be using a single source.

The press release is too cryptic to tell if they plan a cadet programme such as those OAA do with other airlines with a conditional job offer before they start the course, or if it just means they will hire OAA Integrated graduates once they finish the course, or a mixture of both.

Jet2 has always hired experienced pilots as well and there is no reason that won't continue. The more immediate impact I see in this news will be recurrent sim training for Jet2s existing 737 crews closer to their home bases.

Fabbe92,

Was the Ryanair guy you spoke to Michael O'Leary himself? Dismissing the competition as "not so important" is one of his trademarks. Jet2 is a well run airline and the pilots I know that work for them are quite happy there.

[preduk]

He means that big national carriers like BA or LH are so big that they can say that we only take pilots from these schools etc. But he doesn´t think that companies like JET2 and Cityjet are so important that they can do so. What he means is who are they to say this?

Well Cityjet are owned by Air France, an airline that has over 100 more aircraft than BA so I would take his opinion with a pinch of salt.

[EZYramper]

"I don't think this will be the last airline exit from CTC to Oxford. The Easyjet deal with CTC is up for renewal within the next 4-5months, and I am told a move to OAA is on the cards."

Source?

[flyingmutant]

I'm with Adios on this one. I very much doubt there will be any ab-initio recruitment in the near future. Jet2 recently advertised for experienced 73 and 75 pilots for a fixed term contract over the summer. I can't see them taking any low hours pilots for at least another year or however long it takes for the economy to recover. At the moment the only benefit I can see of them mentioning future cadet pilot sourcing is as more of a marketing ploy for Oxford to advertise a new airline "partnership".

A lot of the past "deals" with OAA have simply been an airline will say "send us 10CVs off your last course every couple of months and we might take a few who take our fancy.

To the guy who can't understand why some airlines will only take from one source it can be as simple as the new guy in charge of recruitment at XYZ airlines trained at Oxford. They know how they do it, and a lot of the people there.
Previously Ryanair wouldn't touch Oxford with a bargepole, and now they've taken well over a hundred in the last few years. There happens to be quite a few ex oxford pilots in there recruitment section now.
Similarly I was told First Choice/Air 2000 used to take quite a lot of Oxford guys, but then the man at the top changed and they did a deal with CTC instead.
This IS NOT CONFIRMED but also one of the reasons why I hear that easyjet are moving more towards Oxford as well - the newish head of pilot recruitment is ex OAA and they already do all the A320 ratings through Oxford in London.

[flyingmutant]

EZYramper - I didn't see your reply before my last post.

A training captain and another guy I know at EZY who is involved in the pilot recruitment side have both said separately that a change is on the cards. The current contract with CTC runs out within roughly 6 months and from what they tell me they are not at all happy with CTC. By this I am not having ago at the CTC cadets (before any of them start!!), it is the WHOLE package.

They have said now only the 737 ratings are done through CTC as as they put it there had been serious "quality" issues but they are constrained contractually with where they can go in the meantime. The A320 ratings are all currently done through OAA. As I mentioned before the guy in charge of recruitment now is also ex-Oxford.

A friend who went to the a recent EZY presentation at OAA said this was very similar to what was said by the guy there.. he was only an FO and I have no idea how long he'd been there/ how much he really knows.


But hey, this is a RUMOUR network... for all I know these guys were all talking total b:mad:cks! Time will tell....

[I like planes & stuf]

Under the agreement the academy will relocate a Boeing 737 Classic full-flight simulator to its training centre at Woodford, Manchester. The device is expected to be fully operational from August. Jet2 has six UK bases, including four in northern England, so the simulator move will cut its crew training costs.

I wonder if the proverbial finger will be pulled out this time unlike the huge delays OAA had getting their last simulator in - a year late I heard.

[no sponsor]

We have been waiting a long time for the Sim to appear at Woodford. It will save us all (except the STN crews) from the long trip south to the sim housed at Gatwick. Last I heard it was to be operational from June/July and is coming all the way from China.

I suspect that the 'deal' to look at OAA cadets meant that they negotiated a few more quid off the contract.

CTC is pretty useless to Jet2 now, since they sold their 733 sim a while ago. The 757 training has always been done through OAA (GECAT).

[vlieger]

A friend who went to the a recent EZY presentation at OAA said this was very similar to what was said by the guy there.. he was only an FO and I have no idea how long he'd been there/ how much he really knows.I was on that presentation too where indeed John Greene, a senior FO, said Easyjet wasn't happy with the CTC management and that the contract will be renegotiated in the middle of this year and would very likely go to OAA instead. Of course I don't know either how credible he was -- in fact, the OAA representative seemed quite amazed himself.

[fabbe92]

OH:{ So since I have given up the Integrated OAA idea and the chance of getting a job directly with BA etc, I tought oh well there are many good airlines that I can apply for anyway but now all the airline seems to take Inito pilots from OAA:ugh:

[bajadj]

all? i would hardly call one airline all, and can i remind you that BA are hiring absolutely nobody straight out of ANY school, whether they be integrated, modular, goat herders or swedish porn stars NONE.

BA Recruitment (http://www.britishairwaysjobs.com/baweb1/?newms=info127)

DEP only, and for that you could be integrated OR modular trained.

[m aidez]

Just to let anyone who might be interested know....

As lovely as John Green is, I went through a type rating with him and have now been at EZY with him for the last 18 months at Luton the notion that the supply of cadets is to switch from CTC to OAA is, i'm afraid, unfounded.

Indeed the company is dedicated to CTC and will continue to take cadets through the modified cadet scheme (flexicrew).

I think John is susceptable to excitment!

Anyway best wishes all.

[TheBeak]

That would imply therefore that the Wings scheme has more or less stopped then because Easyjet are CTCs major taker, Thomas Cook are only doing 10ish lots of 6 month contracts and there isn't much else. There is nothing sponsored or guaranteed about the Flexicrew scheme. It is work experience. So is the CTC scheme still 'The Wings' scheme? Or is it a different scheme? I guess it makes no difference - something is better than nothing, and that is why this industry is going down the pan.

[scallaghan]

Hi

I was looking at the Flexi Crew scheme and am trying to do some research. Do CTC line you up into a position before starting the type rating with an airline ....

If you join an airline reading the above thread from the Flexi crew scheme, is the contract just 6 months and then you get the boot? That would obviously be very expensive work experience with the type rating SOP's of that airlines etc.

I would have assumed perhaps you would hopefully get a full time contract at the end assuming performance was okay.

[EK4457]

Not 100% on the flexicrew details, but I do know two people waiting to do their A320TR for EZY on the scheme. Here is what I know;

I believe the TR is paid for by EZY. Of course, you still have your own eye watering loan repayments from the CTC fATPL course. You are on your own there.

It is a 6 month contract, you get paid a paltry £1000 per month*, no leave/holiday entitlement and when you're gone you aint coming back any time soon. This is for 2 reasons:

1) You will start asking for outrageous luxuries such as a legal wage so as not to live in poverty and have paid holidays. Wholly unacceptable.

2) The CTC sausage machine will be spewing out a load more "cadets" after you. They have to keep up highly misleading statistics which make it look like 100% of cadets get a 'job' with an airline. So they will be next.

In short, CTC was a good scheme. It probably will be again one day. Unfortunately, it has turned into a nightmare and is probably the most expensive way to build 500 A320 hours out there.

Those trapped in the scheme have no choice and did not have all the info about the economy we have today when they started. You do. Buyer beware.

But, as with all these things, if you can afford it and this is what you want to do, then go forth and enjoy some loco hour building!

*sorry to state the bloody obvious, but that works out at a £12,000 pa job. Shocking to say the least.