Committed XP Pro user needs reassurance about Vista [Archive]

BladePilot

1st Feb 2009, 15:43

Hi I'm about to change my PC. I've used Dell for years and intend to stick with Dell I'm going for a new Studio XPS desktop with the new Intel i7 processor.

All of my current equipment is running XP Pro which I have been very happy with so now I'm wondering if I should insist on my new Dell being delivered with XP Pro or should I just bite the bullet and go for Vista.

Have all the Vista bugs been ironed out?

I'd love to wait for W7 but there doesn't seem to be a firm release date yet and I really need to change my PC now, what to do:(

1. Insist on new PC being delivered with XP Pro and upgrade (or not) to W7 when it is released.

2. Take delivery of new PC with Vista and then upgrade to W7 when it's released.

3. Take delivery of new PC with Vista and stick with it because W7 may just have as many bugs in the initial release anyway.

Help:confused:

green granite

1st Feb 2009, 15:50

Another option, buy it with no operating system, at a discount, then download windows 7 beta from Microsoft for free and then buy the shrink wraped version when it comes out. Been using 7 now for several weeks on a dual boot system and almost never go back to XP any more, I love it.

frostbite

1st Feb 2009, 16:56

Think I would go for option 1, next choice would be the gg option.

I was going to try W7 at one point, but when I tried to get it the site wanted me to log in or register. In typical M$ fashion, it didn't offer a registration link, so I gave up.

Keef

1st Feb 2009, 17:26

I think you're too late for the Windows 7 Beta, but I do agree it's excellent. I've got this machine set to dual-boot XP Pro or W7, and haven't used XP in a couple of weeks. The only need for XP is to write the Garmin datacard (although there may now be a W7 fix for that).

Vista is a mess, which is why Win 7 is being rushed out. My preference would be Win 7, then XP Pro, then a Linux distro (excellent, but fiddly), then Vista.

Do you need to buy a new operating system, or can you use the XP that came with the present machine? Those licences are a bit inscrutable sometimes.

Feline

1st Feb 2009, 19:51

Don't think the Dell configurator will allow you to buy a machine without an OS. But -- when I bought my Dell Optiplex desktop, I requested that they ship it with XP. It comes with a CD-ROM which allows me to upgrade it to Vista Business. As far as I know you can downgrade to XP if you have Ultimate or Business, but not if you have Home or Media.
Never even even thought of "upgrading" to Vista - I have quite enough hassles with another Lenovo Laptop that came with Vista installed ...
And while Win 7 sounds like it will deliver what Vista should have delivered - unless you feel like endless frustration, NEVER EVER purchase or install a Microsoft Product within two years of initial release - been there, done that, got the scars on my back ...

frostbite

1st Feb 2009, 19:51

I think the final date for W7 is 9th February, but I could be wrong.

exeng

1st Feb 2009, 21:56

XP pro is at a guess about 50% faster than Vista on this machine. Originally I loaded Vista 64 bit but some driver issues pushed me back to 32 bit.

Regards
Exeng

P.Pilcher

1st Feb 2009, 22:28

For what it is worth, you might like to know that I have recently acquired a new (desktop) machine - well, not a new machine as I had some fairly useful newish bits in my old one, so I acquired a new case, motherboard, 2Gb of RAM, hard drive and dual core intel CPU. Bunged it all together, switched on and in a few moments, to my amasement, it filled the screen with a load of numbers and demanded a boot disc to be put in the CD ROM drive. I therefore inserted the recovery disc from my 8 year old virtually completely dismantled machine. Disc was read, and after much whirring and CPU activity, the screen announced the completion of the installation of XP pro. I was then reminded that validation was required - it's a freephone number, so I dialled same and entered the code on the screen. This was not accepted so I followed the instructions and the appropriate serial number was requested. I entered this off the case of my old machine, entered the new number generated and BINGO! this was accepted and the validation number issued. It is a slightly tedious automated system. Thus is IS possible to transfer XP to your new machine if the old one came with a recovery disc. Of course this version of XP hadn't even got SP 1 installed so it took quite a while and much downloading before it was jacked up to Service Pack 3 level but it is now working beautifully. Last week, daughter came around to show me her shiny new laptop, with it's 2 core duo intel processor running at I don't know how many GHz. Powered by Windows Vista the poor thing literally crawled! If it had been mine, I would have bought a serial number off ebaY and treated it to a dose of FORMAT C: and put in XP pro. To be quite honest, a lot of people are saying that Win 7 Beta is for enthusiasts (like many people here who are experts) but for the average Tom Dick or Harry, then it is best to wait until the final version is released. Only then will we hopefully no longer have to do all this dodging around to get a reasonable OS on a new machine.

P.P.

BladePilot

1st Feb 2009, 23:22

Thanks for all the replies. I rooted around and found the original XP Pro CD that came with my last Dell so I reckon that may widen my options a little. If Dell won't ship my new PC with XP Pro I may just attempt to install with the original CD I have. Reckon if I do that I'll have the same 'catching up' issue as P.P. whilst I wait for the system to jack up to SP3! Whatever I am wary of going anywhere near Vista at the moment (if I do it'll be 64bit business)I have a few days yet to think it over before I place that order.

Thanks.

green granite

2nd Feb 2009, 06:34

Dell do ship with Linux :E

BombayDuck

6th Feb 2009, 02:48

Option one is the safest bet for you, but the way MS plays the game it might not be available from the vendor. I wouldn't go for W7 before the first service pack is out - well, any windows product for that matter. So if you *HAVE* to use Vista, you will need to be wary.

Look up online forums and see if the particular hardware config (MB, processor, display card, sound) have had problems with Vista. If you can't see too many complaints, go ahead with it - on the right hardware, Vista runs beautifully. I have an Acer Laptop, with 3 GB RAM and a 1.86 C2D/centrino, and I have had absolutely no issues with Vista SP1. Seems Acer sorted out their drivers very well before release. Not a single hang-up, unwarranted restart, BSOD since September. I haven't shut down the laptop since December (when I wasn't around for five days) as I only use Sleep mode. I have at times run Firefox, MATLAB, Word, Excel, PowerPoint, WMP and a PDF reader all open at the same time (What can I say? The workload at university can overwhelm me more than my computer!) with an antivirus scan running without lag. XP *may* have been able to handle all at the same time, but I doubt and I had no option anyway.

But, one anecdote is not the same as concrete data - if Dell haven't yet sorted the drivers especially with new hardware (the C2D was not new when I bought it) you will not enjoy it.

Jimmy Macintosh

6th Feb 2009, 16:26

I have two machines at home:

P4 2.8Ghz, 0.75Gb RAM, 512Mb AGP Graphics card, Windows XP

AMD X2 2200, 4Gb Ram (3 usable), 512Mb PCIe Graphics card, Windows Vista.

The machines are networked, and the XP machine is my machine of choicce as it's faster at everything. Whatever they did with Vista kills whatever advantage the new machine specs added. I turned everything off with Vista as well. Want to install XP on it but have decided to wait until windows 7 is out then just upgrade.

Apparently upgrading Vista is purchasing the upgrade disc and it installs over Vista. The XP upgrade involves a new install.

(source PCMag.com, The Windows 7 Versions: What You Need to Know - News and Analysis by PC Magazine (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2340338,00.asp))

call100

6th Feb 2009, 21:18

Absolutely not problems with Vista here......:ok::}

Fortyodd2

9th Feb 2009, 09:17

What Intel giveth, Microsoft taketh away.......................

Keef

9th Feb 2009, 13:41

Win7 hasn't needed much tweaking here. It did a lot better, before I got stuck unto it, than Vista on a brand new laptop bought by a friend of mine.

That said, I agree with the "Not Windows 7" for your main machine, unless you're into geekery. In part, at least, because it will stop working when the Beta test is over, and you'll need a place to go.

This machine dual-boots to XP Pro and Win 7. Win 7 is faster (by a long way), running all the same software and utilities that I have on the XP installation. Only ZoneAlarm, iTunes and Jepp Datacard Update don't work on Win7. The lack of SCSI drivers for my old card was a minor niggle.

BladePilot

9th Feb 2009, 18:31

Thanks for all the advice. I've spent a couple of days scouring the forums and Googling Vista so much so I reckon I'm now suffering from Microsoft blindness!
Results are in....
Dell won't ship my new PC with XP Pro so I've gone for Vista Ultimate SP1 64Bit. The PC is pretty well stacked with the new Intel i7 (2.66Ghz, 8MB cache, 4.8GT/sec) and 8192MB 1067Mhz DDR3 Tri Channel memory and 750GB Serial ATA (7200RPM) hard drive plus a bundle of other goodies. I've been advised that Vista Ultimate runs 'sweet as a nut' on this config.

Awaiting delivery, will let you know how it performs when it arrives.

Thanks everyone :ok:

BombayDuck

9th Feb 2009, 19:40

Whoa, that is one mean machine. 8 GB RAM? What are you going to be doing, Running Crysis? :p

Keef

9th Feb 2009, 20:22

... and when Windows 7 Ultimate is released, a free upgrade should be on offer.

BladePilot

10th Feb 2009, 08:54

Sure is one Mean Machine BombayDuck.
I'm aiming for World Domination all from the comfort of my own study:E

'Hello Professor Falken would you like to play Global Thermonuclear war?'
'twas a great film way beyond its time.

Well actually, truthfully I'm getting a bit old (as is my current PC) and I'm making my best attempt at future proofing my new PC as I reckon it'll be the last one I buy before my eyes finally give up and the arthritis in my hands finally seize's up my fingers:sad:

and the boring stuff.. well.. I run a lot of 'resource heavy' stuff at the same time, not games but business applications unfortunately:{

Mac the Knife

10th Feb 2009, 10:15

Just think....you could run half-a-dozen Linux VMs on that and never know MS was there at all!

:ok:

Skypilot

10th Feb 2009, 13:50

This message is being sent to you from a Dell Studio XPS 435MT (2.66 GHz Core i7) running 32-bit XP Pro, so it can be done.

The machine came with Vista 64-bit, which was OK in itself, but it was just utterly incompatible with all the rest of my hardware and software:

No driver for my Logitech keyboard and mouse, so none of the extra functionality (e.g. scroll wheels and volume control) worked
Incomplete 64-bit Java support
No Flash player for 64-bit browsers
No Cisco VPN client for any 64-bit OS (so no working at home)
No Office Update for Office 2000
No Palm Pilot desktop software
No driver for my film negative scanner
Quicken 2002 refused to run, even in XP compatiblity mode
...and so on.

So in the end it had to go, even though in lots of respects (e.g. power management) it is clearly streets ahead of XP.

I had no problem in getting all of the XP device drivers I need - either from dell.com or intel.com - and it all works perfectly. The only problem is that I paid for 6 GB of RAM and can only use 3...

Keef

10th Feb 2009, 16:08

The only problem is that I paid for 6 GB of RAM and can only use 3...
When Windows 7 comes out, you may find that your extra RAM comes into play. Test it first, on a separate partition with a dual-boot, just in case!

agentprovocateur

12th Feb 2009, 09:09

Blade
Just read your thread with interest - I seem to have spent weeks rather than days browsing the specs for machines and software.

I'm on my third Dell and have always gone for the highest spec I can afford but choosing the machine has been less of a problem than the OS so thanks everybody for your comments re Vista and Windows 7 - I must admit that's been a major factor in my indecision.
Having said that, all this talk about 32 bit and 64 bit is over my head - clearly even more reading is necessary :o)

I'd be grateful if you could let me/us know how you get on, I'm afraid I haven't got Skypilot's expertise so couldn't cope with all of that.
Many thanks if so.

BladePilot

12th Feb 2009, 10:01

agentprovocateur, Sure will.

I use my PC daily but I suppose you could call me a 'lazy' user I know probably a bit more than the 'average' user but wouldn't consider myself an expert about the inner workings of these amazing bits of kit despite having added a few bits now and then such as network cards, extra memory and upgraded CD/DVD combo's. I bow to the superior knowledge of others who have kindly shared their knowledge through this forum and 'am grateful for the invaluable advice, I'd be utterly confused without it.

I ordered the new Dell Studio XPS desktop online on the 8th (last Sunday) and subsequently got a reply on Monday stating the order had been processsed (on the 8th) and my PC was in production on the 9th. Estimated delivery date 17th Feb (on or before that date). Now if it does indeed arrive 'on or before' that date I'll be pretty impressed.
Soon as I have it and have it fired up I'll post regular updates about performance etc..;)

BladePilot

18th Feb 2009, 10:35

New Dell Studio XPS 435MT arrived about an hour ago (today 18th February 2009). I'm pretty impressed by that 10 days from ordering to delivery and if you take into account I ordered late on a Sunday evening and it left the assembly facility yesterday 17th and was delivered before 1100hrs today that's not bad I reckon:ok:

I'll start the set up later today and let you know how the system performs over the next couple of days.

agentprovocateur

19th Feb 2009, 14:22

...mine is going slower and slower!

:ugh:

Jofm5

19th Feb 2009, 18:03

Seen this thread a little late and have already told blade I am jealous of having an i7 already.

But there are a few comments above that are not quite correct.

Whilst core i7 is a new chip design including mmu on chip rather than on the motherboard XP will run fine and there will be no extra drivers required because it is an i7 - the motherboard will be based upon the intel X58 chipset which feature wise to the OS is the same to the operating system as the P45 chipset used by core 2 chips.

This little gem below may help Skypilot get more out of his machine and will allow blade to run XP as well as vista.

Instead of creating a dual boot machine, download vmware server from vmware (VMware Download Center for Datacenter Virtualization, Virtual Infrastructure 3, ESX Server, and more - VMware (http://www.vmware.com/download/)). Mac the knife mentioned this but did not expand on this.

This software runs below the operating system when possible, Core 2 chips and I7 chips have virtualisation built in at a processor level. So what this will allow you to do is run a virtual machine in a window on your desktop of your host operating system (XP in skypilots case and vista in blades case). Within this virtual machine you will be able to install another operating system of choice and when using a chip supporting on board virtualisation the virtual machine is capable of running a 64bit operating system when the host OS is only 32bit so in skypilots case using the 3gb of ram that is idly doing nothing.

With VMWare you can do many impressive things - you can have as many virtual machines as your hardware can support before crawling, so if you ever felt like trying out linux you can do so without fear of busting your current setup.

The VMWare technology is what is used in datacenters, microsoft has their own version of this but its not so mature yet. The licence for VMWare products is free if your not using it for commercial purposes.

My recommendation for blade is to carry on with vista as a software developer I find it alot better than xp and windows 7 better still. But if there is anything you really require xp for (and I have not found a case yet) run xp in a virtual machine - if you install vmware tools on your desktop you can treat your virtual machine window just like any other window and cut and paste between the two.

Cheers

hurn

20th Feb 2009, 12:19

The only problem is that I paid for 6 GB of RAM and can only use 3...

When Windows 7 comes out, you may find that your extra RAM comes into play. Test it first, on a separate partition with a dual-boot, just in case!
No it wont. Not on the 32bit version anyway.

Saab Dastard

20th Feb 2009, 13:14

No it wont. Not on the 32bit version anyway.

Physical Address Extension (PAE) can be used to address more than 4GB from 32-bit OSs – this is true of some Linux distributions, Mac OSX and many 32-bit Windows OSs, e.g. Server 200x Enterprise.

Here’s the catch: applications have to be written specifically to take advantage of PAE, and the only applications that do that are very specialized tools or server applications like SQL Server.

So you are probably right that a 32-bit Windows desktop OS will not support more than the current 3.5GB RAM maximum.

Footnote - Windows XP Service Pack 2 and later, by default, on processors with the no-execute (NX) or execute-disable (XD) feature, runs in PAE mode in order to allow NX. The NX (or XD) bit resides in bit 63 of the page table entry and, without PAE, page table entries only have 32 bits; therefore PAE mode is required if the NX feature is to be exploited. However, desktop versions of Windows (Windows XP, Windows Vista) limit physical address space to 4 GB for driver compatibility reasons.

SD

BladePilot

20th Feb 2009, 16:14

Communicating to you now from the new PC. Words fail me! Wow! I left it sitting in a corner for a couple of days because work commitments wouldn't let me get stuck into setting it up. Got around to it today and all I can say is sitting at my desk is now like sitting on the bridge of the StarShip Enterprise! talk about Warp speed this thing is so fast I can hardly keep up:eek:
The system looks fantastic the case and monitor have a glossy black piano finish and despite my initial worries it is actually quieter than my old Dell Dimension under normall ops.
I've loaded most of my business applications and so far no problems. I've played the Dark Knight Blu Ray and just can't get over the clarity of the picture (monitor is 20inch Truelife DVI-D with pure DVI connections and intergrated webcam) light years ahead of my Bravia HD Sony, the sound quality is just breathtaking.
Early impressions of Vista Ultimate are good although I have a bit to do yet before I've explored it completely.
Planning to load up FlightSim Deluxe + Acceleration expansion pack tomorrow can't wait to see how that performs:ok:

Going for a lie down now, I'm exhausted:)

agentprovocateur

20th Feb 2009, 22:29

Thank you Blade for speaking in words of one syllable :)

I look forward to further bulletins!

BladePilot

21st Feb 2009, 12:58

Vista Ultimate appears to be stable. Hooked up two printers today one HP officejet all-in-one networked through BT Broadband router, OK no problems. Also Samsung Laser printer hardwired USB again OK no problems in fact the Samsung drivers loaded within seconds of connecting the USB. Also hooked up a Belkin generic USB hub without a hitch and finally today I connected a microsoft forcefeed back joystick, drivers loaded automatically and stick works just fine.
Loaded FlightSim + the Acceleration Pack and all works perfectly. Flying the F/A-18A Hornet off and on the carrier is just awesome!
Home network is running fine, connection with wifes laptop running Vista Home premium was up and running within minutes and she now also has access to the Samsung attached to my new Dell Studion XPS. I am however finding it a bit more of a challange to connect with my old Dell Dimension which is running XP Pro but I reckon I'll crack that nut before teatime!
The only niggle so far has been with a USB memory stick (disgo E3) which loaded Ok initially and I was able to transfer a couple of files but subsequent attempts have proved useless. The PC tells me the device is there but won't open it again:confused: I'll try again in a bit after I've let my brain cool down a bit:)

Dissapointments so far = very few except 750GB hard drive told me on initial start up that only 683GB was available on (c) and already down to 597GB after loaded all my apps, recovery (D) gives me 15GB.

'Windows Experience Rating' is 5.9 now that is real Wow! factor.

I'm running Norton 2009 which is fantastic the regular update 'pulses' go unnoticed and means no more lengthy updates every day, doesn't have any noticable effect on PC performance, I'm just about to load it onto my old Dell as well.

System is quiet in fact my Samsung laser printer sounds like a freight train coming through a tunnel compared to the new PC!

:ok:

hurn

21st Feb 2009, 19:23

No it wont. Not on the 32bit version anyway.Physical Address Extension (PAE) can be used to address more than 4GB from 32-bit OSs – this is true of some Linux distributions, Mac OSX and many 32-bit Windows OSs, e.g. Server 200x Enterprise.

Here’s the catch: applications have to be written specifically to take advantage of PAE, and the only applications that do that are very specialized tools or server applications like SQL Server.

So you are probably right that a 32-bit Windows desktop OS will not support more than the current 3.5GB RAM maximum.

Footnote - Windows XP Service Pack 2 and later, by default, on processors with the no-execute (NX) or execute-disable (XD) feature, runs in PAE mode in order to allow NX. The NX (or XD) bit resides in bit 63 of the page table entry and, without PAE, page table entries only have 32 bits; therefore PAE mode is required if the NX feature is to be exploited. However, desktop versions of Windows (Windows XP, Windows Vista) limit physical address space to 4 GB for driver compatibility reasons.

SDYes, that's all true, but a discussion on PAE was beyond the scope of the thread mainly due to the limit Microsoft puts in place in its client operating systems since XP SP2.
Which is basically why I didn't bother with it.

So, 32bit Windows7 still isn't going to see and use 6Gb of ram, regardless of PAE. :)

BladePilot

23rd Feb 2009, 08:31

Network issues sorted I can see and connect with all devices on my home network now including printers attached to other computers. Figured out that Vista doesn't like the 'intelligence' in the Disgo E3 USB memory stick so it doesn't allow that to load but I can now see the stick and it's contents, effectively Vista dumbs the stick down and it functions as a simple USB memory device without the Disgo E3 bells and whistles.
Vista email wizard is a blast it takes all the hard work out of setting up accounts connections.
Have begun to notice the fan noise a little now (if I don't have the radio or other background sounds on) but still reckon it's on par with the old Dimension.
I am truly amazed at the power of the system and its ability to run multiple resource heavy programmes at the same time without any sign of delay, flicker, sstttttutter, skip, whatever.
I've a couple of other peripherals and software programmes to connect / load up.
Most irritating issue now is my broadband connection speed which is way behind what my new system is capable of handling.
So far I'm very happy with my choice of set up:)

BladePilot

27th Feb 2009, 11:24

Just encountered my first issue with my new setup. Although I could see my networked HP printer when I opened the network managment screen my PC flately refused to recognise the printer when I chose to print a document. Then discovered if I started the HP Solutions Centre it threw up a message stating 'no HP device found solution centre will now close' I tried absolutely everything including checking out my firewall settings. Everything appeared OK. I fired up my other PC's (1 desktop (XP Pro) and 2 laptops (Vista(wifes laptop) and XP Pro) and there were no problems with them. So I had to assume it was a Vista Ultimate/HP issue on my new system. Solution was to reload all the HP drivers and software again. Sorted.:D

Saab Dastard

27th Feb 2009, 12:56

HP Solutions Centre

That's your problem.

SD

BladePilot

27th Feb 2009, 13:13

Tks SD
Puzzling thing is that HP Solution Centre hasn't caused any trouble on my other PC's (yet) so I'm assuming it's had a wee conflict with Vista Ultimate which I'm running on the new PC.
Can you enlighten with any more info? have you had the same problems? is there an HP fix?

Saab Dastard

27th Feb 2009, 14:12

Sorry, I was being a touch glib, but I have had a lot of trouble over the years with HP software, most recently with HP Solution Centre on Win XP.

I simply don't find the software necessary or sufficiently useful to balance the hassles and justify the amount of disk space consumed, as well as the services it wants to run.

SD

BombayDuck

4th Mar 2009, 00:40

Any HP software belongs under a pile driver.

:mad:

agentprovocateur

9th Mar 2009, 10:40

BladePilot
Trust all is still going well with your new system.

You said earlier "I've been advised that Vista Ultimate runs 'sweet as a nut' on this config."
Did your advisor give any indication of a minimum config with this software?

Your sounds great but I think you may have paid more than I'm prepared to, given that mine isn't needed for more than general duty - ie no longer for business use.
Having said that, I don't want it to be obsolete in the mid-term - my current machine,now 10 yrs old, is expensive to upgrade because the installed memory is Rambus - I'm better off getting a new machine in every respect but have been putting it off because of stories about Vista.

Jofm5

9th Mar 2009, 11:26

Agent,

I run Vista Ultmitate no problem on a dekstop machine that is coming up for two years old since last major configuration.

My current config is Core2Duo 2.4ghz, but to make vista run sweet upgrade to at least 4gb of RAM as vista is rather memory hungry.

I would recommend looking at a Core2Quad as these systems can be bought very cheaply nowadays and are more than capable of running Windows Vista and Windows 7 (The next release). Memory is relatively cheap nowadays so adding memory after you have bought a package is not going to break the bank and is simple to do.

If your going to upgrade memory on a machine DO NOT buy the memory from somewhere like PC-World (in the UK) as you will pay heavily over the odds for it - use a specialist vendor such as Crucial (Memory upgrades, flash media, and usb storage at Crucial.com (http://www.crucial.com/))

Cheers

Jof

BladePilot

9th Mar 2009, 12:33

agentprovocateur
As Jofm5 mentions in his post and from what I've learnt from mates who are a bit more savvy than me around Vista and high end computing 4GB seems to be the comfortable level for running Vista Ultimate. I was going for 6GB but because I went for the high spec ATI Graphics card the Dell auto build/ordering system flagged up a conflict and advised me that I needed at least 8GB to run the system smoothly (get the best out of) with that card and the monitor so 8GB is what I have.
Vista Ultimate does appears to be a very hungry boy but I have to admit I am truly impressed thus far, the system is very very very fast and even when I'm working in programmes like Dreamweaver or Acrobat 8 the system doesn't even pause for breath and I can switch from programme to programme with absolutely no delay, the new PC even seems to get bored in simple applications like Word or Excel! I think the new i7 architecture also has a lot to do with the smoothness of the system as it's done away with the FSB 'bottleneck' have a look at Intels website for more info on it.
My old Dell with XP Pro sits next to the new system in my office and I normally have both running. I now look at the old kit and think 'well you did me proud for years but I've moved on now!'
As I've mentioned in a previous post I went for Vista Ultimate 64Bit with SP1 and I'm just waiting for SP2 to be released. My wife has Vista Home Premium 32Bit SP1 running on her Sony laptop with 2GB and it seems OK but just OK and to be honest it just isn't anywhere near as exciting as Vista Ultimate.
The new system did cost a bit (somewhere between 1000 and 2000Euro;)) but I spec'd it as high as I could afford with the aim to get the best I could and to try and 'future proof' it a bit. I reckon this one will do me for a while now.:)
I also agree with Jofm5 about buying memory. I'll be buying new memory for the old Dell and I'll do that online through a specialist supplier rather than any High Street trader where you will most certainly get ripped off.

Jofm5

9th Mar 2009, 12:43

BladePilot:

My old Dell with XP Pro sits next to the new system in my office and I normally have both running

Not sure if you have set this up but you may be interested in Synergy (Synergy (http://synergy2.sourceforge.net/)).

It is an opersource project that allows you to put the screens of two machines side by side and use a single keyboard/mouse to control both. As your mouse goes off the right of your left hand screen on 1 pc it picks up on the other pc's monitor to the right. You can even cut and paste between the two.

Its quite a simple master/slave (you can have multiple machines connected) environment to set up - if you do try it and are having problems let me know.

Cheers

Jof
p.s. I know it does not mention Vista on the front page but I have it working on Vista Ultimate fine.

agentprovocateur

9th Mar 2009, 20:43

Jofm and Blade - many thanks to both of you for the info - I'm afraid I began to lose the plot somewhat in your second post though Jof :)

I had a fair idea of cost Blade - don't want to go that high - spent a fortune on last two desktops and laptop - all from Dell - great quality but it's rather like buying a car in terms of depreciation I think :)

Incidentally, my main problem is with space - taken up by music and pics - have either of you any suggestions re external hard drives? Unsure whether to go for portable or desktop if I do go down that route. I'm also tempted by the online storage facilities available althugh I think it's advisable to use that for backup as well as convenience when using the laptop.

Jofm5

9th Mar 2009, 22:26

AgentP,

Sorry for confusing you - the second post was a tip for Blade on how to control his two machines from a single keyboard/mouse as it can be damn annoying when you accidently hold the wrong mouse when looking at the other screen.

Back to your original questions....

A budget of £500- £600 should get you a machine that is pretty much good for anything, so long as you dont want to do hardcore games/databases/programming/processing. Building one yourself will be cheapest but is not for the faint of hearted.

My advice would be: -

1) Dont buy off mainstream highstreet stores - this adds alot of cost.
2) Dont pay for extra insurance for component breakdown as two years down the line most machines will have depreciated enough that it would be cheaper/more cost effective to buy a new one.
3) Pick your budget and look online at what you can get for that. Some good sites to compare are: -

1) Computer Supplies and PC Components from Novatech (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/)
2) Scan 3xs Systems - Custom Built PCs (http://3xs.scan.co.uk/)
3) PC Nextday (http://www.pcnextday.co.uk/products/ProductList.asp?ParentGroupCode=PCD&GroupCode=CSD)
4) Dell UK: Laptops, Desktop Computers, Monitors, Printers & PC Accessories (http://www.dell.co.uk/)
5) Desktop PCs - Computers - Windows XP Professional, Home & Media Center - Misco.co.uk (http://www.misco.co.uk/applications/category/category_tlc.asp?CatId=54)
6) dabs.com - Desktops & Servers products at great prices from dabs.com (http://www.dabs.com/productlist.aspx?&NavigationKey=11011&CategorySelectedId=11011&PageMode=1)

4) Dont just look at price - look at the components you get for the price and try read reviews not only of the systems but the individual components. E.G. An ATI HD3850 graphics card is considered an old and mediocre card whereas the ATI 4850 is meant to be excellent. It may be worth spending that little bit more to get something that will last you longer.

Once you have narrowed down to a few machines you like the look of (and price of) feel free to start a thread with links to them on here and you will get some advice on pro's and con's with each system. Some people prefer brand names such as Dell and HP however with unbranded machines you can get more value for money (not always the case).

With regard to your question on external storage - how it is going to be used is important. If you just need more disk space then what system do you have ? it is very easy and cheap to add a new hard drive to an existing desktop system.

If it is an external disk you are after then you will need to consider speed - both USB2 and Firewire are very slow in comparison to your existing internal hard drive - USB3 (Due out last quarter this year/early next) is a fast alternative as is ESATA (External SATA) - both of these have implications in cost and availability - ESATA has been around a while but drives supporting this are not that common as are motherboards - Some E-SATA packages include an ESATA card to be installed in the machine. The benefit of E-SATA is that it is the same speed as your internal disk so there is no waiting on data.

If speed is not an issue then any USB2 drive will do that is within your budget - best to read the reviews of the ones you see - again look online for the best prices.

Cheers

Jof

Saab Dastard

9th Mar 2009, 23:08

I think that there are two major stumbling blocks when building one's own computer.

The first is the lack of technical knowledge / confidence to be able to install all the components in the case, and the second is the difficulty of ensuring that all the components will be compatible - both physically in the case and "logically" in terms of working together. I think that the latter is actually by far the harder.

There's really no substitute for hard-earned experience to overcome both, although thorough research helps a lot! But it's very satisfying when it comes together. Ask Keygrip! :p

SD

Yes, it's easy for me, because I have been modding and building PCs and servers since 386 / 486 days, when 4MB RAM and 100MB disks were state of the art!

BladePilot

10th Mar 2009, 08:54

agentprovocateur
Glad to be of any help.
I have the ATI 512MB HD 4850 Graphics Card onboard and it sure does seem to be pretty special.
I have a 750GB internal hard drive, I was tempted to go bigger but I also use an external 500GB SeaGate E-SATA which is so fast it seems as if it is an internal drive I use this for my backups I have it set to auto backup so I don't even notice it working. I had one or two problems with the SeaGate but a while tinkering about seems to have got it to behave properly they do run very very hot though as they don't have an internal cooling fan only a heat sink which becomes so hot you can't touch it without causing yourself pain! The only other issue with the SeaGate is that I can't network it the way I'd like to so I'm thinking of buying another 1TB external storage device which I can connect to the last remaining port on my router to enable easy access from any of my networked PC's.
Never been tempted to go for online storage simply for the fact that your personal info/data is stored on someone elses system and you have no 'real' control over that system/facility and despite the assurances you'll get from such a service provider would you really feel that your personal stuff is safe? Sure if the Banks can lose your money a Data Storage facility could lose your personal stuff?
I run a small web business and that is hosted on a system in a very secure modern facility about 25 miles from me (which I have been able to visit and see for myself, very impressive) but I do sometimes have access issues, an example; last summer the facilities cooling system suffered a failure and the facility began a phased shutdown it took them 2 days to fully recover and my wee business suffered, I've also suffered a couple of 'upgrades where they have moved my business site to new servers but forgotten a couple of bits (links or files) all quickly rectified but it sure can be frustrating. That said it would be a pain to host my site myself but I've always had it in my head that's what I'd like to do at some point but then that'll involve another shed load of money!

hurn

10th Mar 2009, 10:08

I was going for 6GB but because I went for the high spec ATI Graphics card the Dell auto build/ordering system flagged up a conflict and advised me that I needed at least 8GB to run the system smoothly (get the best out of) with that card and the monitor so 8GB is what I have.Not having a go at you Bladepilot, but the Dell ordering system ripped you off.
To say you need 8gb of ram becuase you have an ATI 4850 is complete and utter bo:mad:ks.
Makes me quite angry to see how people are duped by these companies. :=

As I've mentioned in a previous post I went for Vista Ultimate 64Bit with SP1 and I'm just waiting for SP2 to be released. My wife has Vista Home Premium 32Bit SP1 running on her Sony laptop with 2GB and it seems OK but just OK and to be honest it just isn't anywhere near as exciting as Vista Ultimate.Ultimate does have its uses for the power user, but the average bloke will be well served by the less expensive Home premium and not notice any difference.

Jofm5

10th Mar 2009, 12:33

Hurn:

Ultimate does have its uses for the power user, but the average bloke will be well served by the less expensive Home premium and not notice any difference.

This is very much true, the major difference between Ultimate and Home Premium is that you get better networking support with Ultimate (As per Vista Business).

The more completeness of Vista Ultimate networking is by no means a disadvanted to home Premium - the extra it allows is for it to become a member of a Windows Domain and use those Domain services as would be found in the office.

One issue with home premium that you may find is if you run Internet Information Server locally, it will not allow you to do trusted authentication (as its not part of a domain) which means things like SQL Server Reporting Services cannot be installed. But that is only a problem if your into some serious software development.

Not having the domain features of Vista Ultimate is only a hindrance which can be worked around when in an office (map drives manually etc). But at home using a workgroup network is not a problem.

Cheers

BladePilot

10th Mar 2009, 14:55

hurn
Thanks for the input but I don't feel I've been dupped by Dell the online ordering system indicated a possible conflict and to get the best use of the config told me I needed to run 8GB, I hesitated for a moment and thought 'Mmm interesting', cost wasn't an issue for me so I took it. I am very happy with what I got and happy I'm not sat here now thinking 'damn I wish I'd gone for 8GB rather than 6GB'
I am always keen to expand my understanding of these wonderful implements which seem to rule our lives now and would be interested to learn more from you about why 6GB and not 8GB with the ATI 512MB HD 4850 Graphics card?

hurn

10th Mar 2009, 17:12

BP, you could happily run a Radeon 4850 with 2GB of system ram in Vista, it wont make a difference to the actual running of the card.
Its the software (ie games) which will make use of the system ram, and, most games still only use 2GB ram max, which was a limit imposed by 32bit windows.
I believe some games are becoming large address aware, so that they can make use of larger ram amounts, but 6Gb would have been absolutely fine.

You would have been better served getting a graphics card with 1GB of onboard ram instead of 512mb, especially useful for games running in high resolutions with large textures, shaders etc.

Its not going to hurt having more system ram, and as long as your happy its fine, but I feel it was definitely unnecessary for Dell to imply that you need 8GB over 6GB purely for selecting a Radeon 4850.

agentprovocateur

12th Mar 2009, 19:45

to everyone for such comprehensive information.

I'm away for a few days (giving my brain a rest) but on my return, I'm going to read and assimilate all this info and hopefully, order a new pc!
:)

BladePilot

24th Mar 2009, 12:56

I give up! 99.9% happy with my new system but I just can't get around my HP printer problem, need advice.
I use an HP officeJet 6310 All-in-One, Scanner, Copier, Fax, printer. I have it networked (hardwired) through my BT router. The HP came with three CD's one for XP etc, one for Vista, one for MAC. I've loaded the XP drivers onto my XP Pro desktop and my XP Premium laptop and they run OK it seems, occasionally they won't print but a simple reset (on/off) at the printer or router fixes that.
I've loaded the Vista drivers onto my new Vista Ultimate 64Bit Dell about half a dozen times now and it's driving (no pun intended) me crazeeeeee!
Everything works fine after loading is completed I can scan, print, copy everything it says it'll do it does. Then most often when I have been away from the PC for a while and it has gone into power save (sleep) mode I come back, wake it up only to be met by a windows message telling me that the HP application has stopped working. I have gone through the switch off/on reboot drill on PC, router, HP but it doesn't fix the issue. I've followed all the HP instructions for restarting the application without having to reload it again but it doesn't fix the issue so I get to the last remedy on the HP list which is.... you've guessed it remove and reload the drivers! Aaaaaargh!
I can see the printer on my network and I can even check it's status, ink levels etc but when I try and print I get the failed notice and if I try and open the HP solution centre I get the 'no HP devices detected the solution centre will now close'!!!!! The HP digital image monitoring icon is alive and well in my notification area but trying to access the solution centre via this portal brings me the same message. I'm thinking it's a Vista / HP conflict but I just can't nail it down. Help:sad:

agentprovocateur;
Have you ordered your new PC yet?

Jofm5

24th Mar 2009, 13:28

Simple Network Management Protocol (SNMP) has been known to cause similar issues when the vista box has woken from a sleep.

After re-installing your printer try this: -

Open Control Panel
Select Printers
Select Right Click the Network Printer effected and select properties.
Select the ports tab
Select the configure ports button
Uncheck SNMP

Then check how it is next time your vista box sleeps

Cheers

BladePilot

24th Mar 2009, 16:37

Jofm5
I was hoping you might reply to my plea for help! I followed your advice but I discovered the SNMP box isn't checked any way (no tick in the box)? should I check (tick) the box?
Reloaded all the drivers again for the umpteenth time! all is working OK but the system hasn't had a sleep yet:\

Blade:)

cGT

22nd Apr 2009, 08:18

I purchased a Refurbished Dell Studio XPS 435MT with following features. I replaced the hard drive with the Seagate 1.5TB & added a LG Blu-ray Disc Rewriter, instead of using the Vista Home Premium 64-bit Operating System that it came with, I want to use Windows XP Pro, I need drivers, please HELP!!!
P.S. Any comment and/or advise to improve my system?

Processor:

Intel Core i7 920 Quad Processor (2.66GHz, 8M L3 Cache, 1MB L1 Cache)
Intel X58 Chipset
Memory:

12GB Tri-Channel DDR3 SDRAM (6 DIMMs/1066MHz)Hard Drive:

640GB SATA Hard Drive (7200RPM)
Optical Drive:

16X DVD+/-RW Dual Layer Burner (read/write CDs, read/write DVDs)
Graphics:

512MB AtI Radeon HD 4850 Video Card with Dual DVI
Networking:

10/100/1000 Gigabit Ethernet LAN on system board Audio:

Integrated 7.1 Channel High Definition Audio
Front: Microphone (1) and Headphone (1) 1394a (1)
Back: line-in, line-out, microphone, rear surround, side surround, 1394a (1)
USB Ports:

Eight: 4 front, 4 back
eSATA: 1 back
Drive Bays and Expansion Slots:

Three 3.5": (two internal, one external)
Two 5.25" bays
Memory DIMM slots: 6

PCIe x1: 3 Slot
PCIe x16 (Graphics): 1 SlotOperating System:

Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit